How to spot an abuser on your first date

[mum]

Eyes wide open, Hoppy...you're doing fine.

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Hoppy hon

I was thinking about this last night... as you do... sat with my cup of cocoa.  I am not sure how other N's are but speaking from experience with my n.dad, there is one word which is like a swear word - change.  Any kind of sentence with the words him and change in are likely to bring out the "I am what I am, you should accept me blah blah blah".  So maybe asking something like "Gosh, having a child is such a huge step, especially with what was going on at the time, I feel for you... what measures did you take to adapt and change after your son was born?"

I was thinking about this because yesterday bio dad posted about how his daughter had disowned him on the website, and I thought maybe one of his friends might try and help and possibly try and get in touch with me.  I know that all I need to say is "Of course I'll talk to him, can you just do me a favour and ask him what he's prepared to do to change to meet me halfway?" 

Hmmmm... just a thought anyway.

Take care

H&H xx

[Plucky]

Hi Hoppy,
I guess I am a bit harsh at times.  Didn't mean to be.
Good luck with this.  I hope he has all the right answers.  One thing that bothered me a bit was that the ex was emotionally abusive to the child and he still let that go.  In favor of money?  Or was it to avoid a big tug of war over the child? 
Brave of you to come up here with this.  I do wish it works out.  But if he is not good enough for our Hoppy, let him hit the road!
Plucky
PS how's the work going?

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Plucky. You're just blunt and direct and that's a useful thing. I really am helped by all the different kinds of voices here...yours too.

I have taken a couple days off before launching into Deadline Part 2. My NMom had her 95th bday this wknd and we had two family friends from France...I literally turned in the last of my files while Georges was wandering around my study chatting about the Bloomsburys. Very sweet people, very well-to-do, and infatuated with my mother. I was so exhausted I feared heart attack honestly. We got thru the weekend with ample attention to NMom, who is such a vampire for it that I am terribly depleted after one of her events.

I was so wiped out I left work (the day job, not the freelance one) 2 hours early and came home, left her a note I was unavailable all evening, and collapsed. Truth is, I took 15 mg. of diazepam before my chest pain calmed and I could relax a bit.

I am very lonely and stressed and a completely burned-out caregiver. It's not her physical care when she needs it that harms me, it's the exhaustion of deflecting her demands for praise. She's insatiable for publicity, admiration, and because she's such a unusualy lively, "cute" and "charming" specimen of extreme age she gets loads of it. So people are constantly asking me, with awe and reverence, how IS your mother? Only one in a dozen thinks to say to me, even when I'm gray faced and haggard...and how are YOU?

Thank heaven for this board. And thanks for asking. I will start Deadline Part 2 tomorrow...I'll make it. I think the Nstuff I live with, plus the dread of holidays, pile up on me every year at this time. I just slog and stagger and feel weaker and more scared each year. I do believe regeneration is possible but the horrible thing is, one of my deepest yearnings is for this chapter with my mother to be over...and there you go: the evil thought of wishing her passing.

No wonder I can't sleep. But it helped to say good night to you. Thanks again, and sorry if I hijacked the thread with this subject. I'm slowly catching on to my first-forum protocol! (I'll worry about the guy in January, but keep all these good cautions in mind. Right now, it's Survive 2005.)

Hopapooped

[Moira]

Hiya Hopalong! I agree with advice to not invest alot- anything in fact- on any first date. I used to project so far into the future- esp if the man remotely resembled a " good guy". The old enabling stuff and desperate hopefulness and rationalization that so often comes from our abusive backgrounds and experiences growing up with abusive family members- regardless if they were Ns or not. I have always " been in love with the idea of being in love" and frankly, am not clear still what love actually looks like or feels like.I used to always buy the old line of soulmate stuff. The being alone part and the fact it is the only healthy choice when you have a history of picking abusive men, can and is often terrifying. For the first time in my life, I made that choice after ending my soul destroying " relationshiip" with my ex N. Painful and full of fear, but yo know what- the old cliche of things getting better with time, is absolutely true. I've made a concerted effort to reach out to people and make new friends who are healthy and supportive, resume activities I used to love and was cut off from by the N, and take chances and explore things i've always wanted to try but was too scared to. Fear has relatively quickly turned into curiousity, budding self confidence and joy! Keep your chin up, and kudos for your strength and ability to set boundaries! That too becomes addictive in a healthy and satisfying way! You are on the right path to sanity and well deserved love and happiness. don't beat yourself up for sometimes resuming old behavoiurs- happens to the best of su despite good intentions- takes time and healthy examples- and for me, professional counseling- to learn the skills to recognize old self destructive behavour and learn new healthy ones. We do what we know and what was modeled to us. It does get better! Hugs, Moira

[Sallying Forth]

You are all welcome!


It is just one of many lists I have found over the last two years while researching about abusive buttholes!

[Sallying Forth]

Sally,
Thank you for the list.  I can honestly say that my new love interest does not have a single "quality" on that list.

My xnh used a rather opposite approach.  He presented himself as the really nice guy who girls would take advantage of and he was a victim that needed to be rescued and loved.  Because rescuing and fixing were all I knew about relationships, I bought into this hook, line and sinker and continued to care for and about him for 24 years.  It was just a different form of manipulation that he found worked very well for him.  That combined with his compulsive lying kept us all thinking he was a good guy right up til the end. 

Just a little warning for those of you looking for a new love that n's do come in different shapes and sizes.

Brigid

Actually my h came across this way to begin with in our relationship. He was the victim.

[Sallying Forth]

pink flags are: I couldn't understand how he could leave his young son on the oppostie coast with a woman so unstable

Second pink flag: is there something wrong about the fact that he blames her entirely for the failure of their marriage? I mean, if she is unstable, and prone to violence, maybe that's the simple fact of it. But I am wondering if there's something missing ("And my contribution to the misery of it all was _________").

Love,
Hopalong

Oh my, my, my ... These are both in Lundy Bancroft's first early warning sign in Why Does He Do That?. _{pp. 114-122}

He speaks disrespectfully about his former partners.
    * very focused on his bitterness or tells you about it inappropriately early on in your dating
    * speaks about women from his past in degrading or condescending ways
    * characterizes himself as a victim of abuse by women
    * be aware whether he seems to accept any responsibility for what went wrong in his previous relationships.
    * if everything was always the women's fault

[Sallying Forth]

Lundy Bancroft's List: from pp 114 - 122

He speaks disrespectfully about his former partners.
       Or glorifies and elevates them so you can never compete.

He is disrespectful toward you.
       Sneers. Put downs.
       Cutting. Sarcastic. Rude.
       Idealizing you. Placing you on a pedestal. Treating you like fine china.

He does favors for you that you don't want or puts on  such a show of generosity that it makes you uncomfortable.
       Creates a sense of indebtedness.

He is controlling.
      Gives too much advice.
      A little negative about friends or family.
      Comments about your looks or clothes.

He is possessive.

Nothing is ever his fault.
      Makes promises he doesn't keep.
      Has excuses for disappointing you or behaving irresponsibility.

He is self-centered.
      Listens poorly.
      Does a lot more than his share of the talking.
      Chronically shifts the topic of conversation back to himself.
     
He abuses drugs or alcohol.

He pressures you for sex.

He gets serious too quickly about the relationship.

He intimidates you when he's angry.
      Gets too close to you when he's angry.
            Pokes. Pushes. Puts finger in your face. Blocks your way. Restrains you.
      Shouts you down. Behaves in any which makes you flinch or feel afraid.
      Vaguely threatening comments.
      Drives recklessly or speeds up when angry.
      Punches walls. Kicks doors. Kicks objects.
      Throws things around.

He has double standards.

He has negative attitudes toward women.

He treats you differently around other people.

He appears to be attracted to vulnerability.
      My t says these people actually look for receptivity. In other words they look for weak personal boundaries.
      This goes for those who are younger or who have suffered recent traumatic experiences.
      They are attracted to power. Seek partners who will look up to them with awe and allow him to lead her.