What is she thinking?

[miss piggy]

Hiya Hoppy,

are you the same peson who said one can "leave Ns on a little island of opinion with nowhere to go"??

I love that, too, but cannot take credit for it.     It is very appropriate here, isn't it? 

Take care,    MP

[Bewildered]

Ok , I get the tactic of just saying "No thanks" witha blank look and turning away.It must drive NPD people crazy. However, the lady in question is not IMO, NPD. She does have the callous dsregard for the impact of her sel-centered behavior on others. She is two-faced and shallow and seeks to "have it all' at the expense of others ,but she does not have the other signs and symptoms of NPD.
 My question is whether I should stiil use the "No Thanks" coolness  or should I tell her more?Engage her in some way to say a few things that I would enjoy saying.

I am new at understanding NPD trait people and their modus operadi.
As a final comment, she has made the point several times that George(her 8 year B/F) will not talk to her, dance with her or acknowledge her presence in any way.She tells it like he is the one with the problem and implies that he is so bitter and twisted that he cannot even be civil to her while all she wants is to be civil and friendly,pleasant and courteous.

What gives?

Bewildered, getting clearer.

[Hopalong]

Hey Beclearing,

Doesn't matter if she's diagnosed as NPD or not.
She's nasty and she hurt you.

IMHO, letting her be busily "telling you" stuff is allowing more violation on top of violation.

I'd stick to the silence and walking away plan. Don't worry about getting the labels right.

Your classy dignified silence and literally physically walking your body away, making immediate tracks in the opposite direction, also means NOT LISTENING to her...

Really. It's the most powerful self-affirming and dignified thing you could "say".

Make sense?

Hopalong

[Bewildered]

Yes I guess that you are right Hopalong - It's back to  plan A "No thanks." or maybe," I would prefer not."  or some similar polite but dispassionate refusal.  It does feel kind of lame in a way but I defer to your wisdom.

Not so ,Bewildered

[Hopalong]

Oh BRAVO.
What I bet is feeling lame is just that it's so unlike the movie scripts and dialogues in your head you've been writing about a "getting satisfaction" kind of encounter.

We're trying to tease you away from dreaming about "scripts" and actually being the ACTION HERO.

As in, taking the ACTION of walking away.
No dialogue required at all.

Or if you MUST, "No thanks" plus immediate walking is less revealing/vulnerable than "I would prefer not.." which sounds a teensy bit too wounded and fragile. You see, you're so calm and dignified you won't even let slip a syllable that indicates hurt, huffiness, wounded pride, injury...NOT TO HER.

See? You're gonna be an ARMADILLO around her (and when you get home afterward and look back on the evening, you won't feel lame at ALL). I swear. You'll see the quiet power in it. You'll feel it.

Yay!
Hopaflyonthewall

[Bewildered]

 Ok, I can do the blank, aloof look at  her standing up and then the slow walk away, but she is most likely to approach me when I am sitiing down alone.  In that case what do I do or say and stiill be the 'cool detached one' ? I am thinking that if she comes and sits down beside me to talk, or to ask me to dance and I then stand up and walk away with a "No thanks" it kind of screams *hurt, cut and bleeding ex-lover is pissed and is in retreat licking his wounds*.and she gets to feel victorious over me again and I feel like a loser. Bad outcome.
 
What action on my part( sitting down)  is likely to leave her confused, befuddled and feeling as if SHE has just been kicked to the kerb?   I always did want to take  *Acting 101*

Bewildered again.( but this is fun)

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Bewildered.... and welcome...

How about if your sat down and she comes over to talk you say "Oh excuse me, I just have to go to the bathroom", then up and away.  You know your not pissed and licking your wounds... what does it matter what she thinks?  She may be confused but with N traits, she's only confused because her supply isn't responding and she thinks it should... as she thinks you should respond.

Make any sense?

Take care

H&H xx

[Hopalong]

Oooh, brilliant, H&H, I was stuck on that one.

Bew, here's the latest thought in my directorial little brain.
Just in case you can't control everything...remember you can't control everything.

(Including what she thinks or feels).

If she:
sits down on a couch with you
backs you up against a kitchen counter
runs down the sidewalk after you saying, Wait!
stands on her head and bounces through the house like a pogo stick...

You can still control what you do.
You can walk away.
You can walk away even if it involves getting up/out/over/around first.

And again, it's not about what she or other people think, it's about you DOING the action of a dignified man who simply respects himself (even if that's new, so what? the fact is, you are in the present and that moment choosing to act from a place of self-respect) and therefore chooses to promptly withdraw from any contact with her.

I think while playing acting coach I might suggest a different MOTIVATION for our clever Jimmy Stewart. One motivation could be revenge, spite, being emotionally petty and wanting to punish.

Another motivation could be distaste for what is toxic and destructive, and respect for self.

I think you don't have to display contempt for her to display respect for yourself.
I think it's more dignified if you take the vengeance out of it.
Just a direct exit from her company.

Let the play be itself...as it will unfold. You just take care of your own character.

Hopalong

[Plucky]

Hey Bewildered but getting it now,
I know you are super alert to the whereabouts of your ex.  So if she comes towards you, even when she is still far away, just get up and move.  Act as if you don't see her.  Go into the loo if you have to.   Don't let her near you.  She is full of negative crap.  Don't let her hand it to you.  Don't make eye contact, just act as if there is something more interesting to look at elsewhere.  Look around while she is talking and interrupt with a reaction to something you saw across the room, then say excuse me and go there in the middle of her sentence.    Never say 'sorry' for any reason.    If at a loss for what to say, just say 'Mmmmm".
Plucky

[mum]

Hey, Bewildered.
I think you are getting a lot of "don't even bother" messages from people here because that's our experience. I know that any type of "reaction" I have to my exN, whether normal people would find it appropriate or not, is a warped little invitation in his head ("Oh, I got a reaction......me...mee....meee......etc") It doesn't matter what you say.

However, I think sometimes just walking away, or shutting down just isn't proactive enough. You may have to back it up...not with an explanation (they don't get those....think it's engagement....) but with a word or two to shut them down.

NO! Is a really good word.  Of course most N types think it means something other than no, so I get why Hoppy would have said, just leave.....but NO!! said in increasingly louder volumes even gets the real jackass to stop (public humiliation and all).
So, she bugs you to dance? "No, thank you.....and if needed, repeat NO NO NO"  And then leave...she follows?  Loudly, say "stop bothering/harrassing me.." My ex hates that.....but when I hang up the phone, there is not a lot he can do.  So you could say, more proactively, exactly WHAT YOU WANT HER TO DO/ NOT DO.   Still, make it clear there is no debate.
Forget about retaliatory comments....they shout: "I still care and I sit up nights thinking of what I will say to you".

I could add that you might not want to be in those social situations that she might also be in, for a while. Why? Because unless YOU are completely clear of her energy/what she did to you, no matter what you say or do....the energy is still there. When you get to the point where she could be a gnat to you, someone you don't even think about, really, then seeing her in a club, with a new boyfriend, etc, won't even phase you at all. She could be anyone.

[miss piggy]

Hi Bewildered,

Someone here once said they have developed a "don't mess with me" aura.  Not hostile, exactly, but a "I'm here to live not play your games" type of attitude. 

I suggest channeling Clint Eastwood or Charles Bronson.  These guys can stay at their table and exude enough testosterone to ward off anyone silly enough to try and take their territory.  Practice squinting.  Study your martial arts.  Sit with your back to the wall facing the door, Mafioso style.  Watch the playing field unfold before you. 

You are sitting at your table.  A human being approaches and you smile.  They sit down.  You are having a good time.  Miss Convenience spots this island of congeniality and swims forth smiling.  You face her straight on.  Your expression is Buddha like, inscrutable, blank.  No smile, no frown.  Let her make the first move.  Miss C: waah waah waah. waah waah wahh.  Clint: it doesn't matter to me, do what you like, I'm going to enjoy my drink and my friend here.

Basically, imagine yourself in a western bar where there are no rules of propriety.  Detachment, my son.  This you must keep in your heart and mind always, grasshoppah.

May the force be with you, MP

[Brigid]

Bewildered, but getting Bestronger,

you asked:

What action on my part( sitting down)  is likely to leave her confused, befuddled and feeling as if SHE has just been kicked to the kerb?

I personally don't think there is anything that you could say or do which would leave her feeling "kicked to the curb."  She probably isn't capable of feeling as such and would, in her mind, make it all your problem.

Trust me, we have all wanted to say or do that perfect thing which would make them feel that we scored one for the good guys, but doing or saying is not the answer.  Indifference is the only method of getting back at them and regaining the upper hand.  Any engagement will be turned to their favor and viewed by them as your need to have them back in your life.  They are actively looking for any kind of reaction by you to their presence as a sign that they are still in control.  As mum said, perhaps you would be better not to be around her until she is just a pesky gnat and you can treat her as such.  Getting on with your life and being happy without her is your greatest revenge.

Brigid

[Bewildered]

Ok, Your suggestions are locked in. When I was younger(in my thirties) I apparently has a cool aloofness which brought advantages at times, but it also cut me off from decent women. I have become much more open and softer as a person since then and in so doing I may have become vulnerable to manipulation and conniving behavior -I guess that opennesss invites the possibilities of exploitation and attack.

I am not too bad at indifference ,but the silent,walking away treament still has a *voiceless* ring about it. It is like I am biting my tongue and lack the will and the courage to speak my mind. I do take the point that blurting out some sarcastic comment is *engagement* to abusers. If I also try to explain to her how her behavior was so hurtful and humiliating that she willnever GEt it.
 Anyone who dumps their partner because he said that he was "depressed" is incapable of sincere human appropriate emotion responses, so any discussion EVER is pointless on my part.

Bewildered ( practising cool indifference)

[mum]

hiya Be: What if you wrote down what you wanted to say to her.....and then burn it? I have done that numerous times...and it was pretty helpful. The person never got the message (they woudn't "get it" anyway) but I still got to say it....and then send it up into the sky...maybe they will get it someday, but it's not my job....

[Hopalong]

Be, dear:
Silence IS speech.

Just of a different kind.

I can't wait to hear how it goes because I think you're going to feel the satisfaction of self-respect rather than revenge.

Promise to speak it all here and let us know!

Hopalong