Does my wife have NPD? Should I leave her?

[arold_ite]

Thanks Brigid, that’s top advice to stop and give myself some time to face the pain.  I guess that way I’m not pushing it down where it could reappear in the future.  But rather, I’m dealing with it in the here and now.

I have a question for anybody that may have been in a similar situation.  If I could persuade my wife to attend a therapy session with me, do you think that any benefit could be gained from this experience?

What I understand so far from the books that I’ve read is that she would probably not agree to seeing a therapist because she doesn’t see anything wrong in her actions.  In addition, if she were to attend a session, she would probably find something wrong with either the process or the therapist.

I was thinking that rather than asking her to attend a session alone, for HER ‘problems’, maybe I could get her into a session under the ‘guise’ of couples counselling and then maybe (yes, it’s a lot of “maybe’s”), the therapist could help her to see things more clearly?

Of course, nobody is perfect, and it’s quite obvious that I have my own set of issues to deal with and as such, the therapy will continue to help me.  I guess I haven’t completely given up on my wife yet, or perhaps it’s just a case of not being able to let go, I don’t know?

This is all so confusing!

Arold

[Healing&Hopeful]

I have a question for anybody that may have been in a similar situation.  If I could persuade my wife to attend a therapy session with me, do you think that any benefit could be gained from this experience?

What I understand so far from the books that I’ve read is that she would probably not agree to seeing a therapist because she doesn’t see anything wrong in her actions.  In addition, if she were to attend a session, she would probably find something wrong with either the process or the therapist.

Hiya

I feel you have answered your own question there.  I tried this with my dad (obviously not couples counselling, but us both going to counselling together).  He was outraged.  Unfortunately you cannot help someone who doesn't want help.

Take care

H&H xx

[Brigid]

arold,
I was in couples counselling for 6 weeks with my xh.  The therapist (who eventually became my therapist) saw each of us alone once per week and together once a week.  All my x did was lie--to the therapist and to me.  There was not one important thing that he was honest about.  It's pretty hard to have any meaningful therapy take place if one of the members is not honest about their activities, feelings and other relationships.  My therapist was the one who identified my x as n and that began my journey to understanding narcissism. 

Even if you were able to get your wife to attend a counselling session, what would that accomplish?  She would turn on the charm and act like she had no business being there.  I know you want to believe that something might make this better, but I think you would be best served to cut your losses and move on before she sucks the rest of the life out of you.  You have a lot of years left to live so think about how that would be married to her.  Think about how she will try to destroy the relationship you have with your children.  I know you deserve better than that.

Brigid

[Its not Easy]

Arold, nothing changes until someone changes their ways. If you are convinced that you wife's NPD is at the root of your marriage problems then it follows that repair of you marriage is dependent upon her recovery. Is she wiliing to have counseling? Have you asked her DIRECTLY? It is a Yes/No kind of question after all.
Even if she did agree to see a T, the prognosis for these people is poor.
If she does not agree to go then you are really jammed up against it.
I suggest that you read Scott Peck's "People of the Lie". He is one of the only writers who has the courage to condemn the NPD for the evil  B****S that they are.

I would not waste another microsecond on her if I were you. Maybe you need to look closely at why YOU are still 'wishing and a'hoping' that a relationship can be rebuilt with someone who is demented and just plain bad.
She will drain you dry and then discard you -it is what they do to others and you will not fare any better than all the rest of the world's NPD victims.

"May your glue stay hard"

Its not Easy

[rosencrantz]

Hello Arold.  I'm in the UK, too.

I was as affected as you are and had to work really hard in order to reach a point where I would not to be affected by the people in my life. 

And then...I discovered that it was something called Aspergers Syndrome.

It explains everything!!!

In part, the descriptions we give them are objectively true from the 'outside' but that's not what going on inside THEM.  They are on the other side of the fence in another world, on another planet.  Once you begin to understand you can begin to forgive them but the prognosis for relationship with a spouse is pretty slim unless they are prepared to recognise their disability.

Relate has specialist counsellors in some areas of the country and the Derby branch has a telephone help line.

I have a child with Aspergers Syndrome - it's given me the insight and compassion to understand my Aspie mother although I find it hard to be quite so compassionate with my Aspie husband.

The main difference between NPD and Apergers seems to be in self-awareness.  An Aspie may know they are weird or odd in some way but they do not 'do evil unto others' with any forethought, intention or awareness whereas someone with NPD knows what they are doing and are calculated about it.  It's very difficult to tell the difference from the outside. Aspies are often indifferent and hurtful but actually they're being truthful and logical. Their problems are neurological whereas NPD is psychological.  As I said...difficult to tell the difference from the outside!!

There are some useful books and pointers available from the National Autistic Society website.

Hi Portia -  I was looking for you!!   I'll send you a pm.  Sorry to hear you're not well, Write, but it sounds like you're having a very productive time psychologically speaking!!! 

[Hopalong]

Arn,
You are right, it is about letting go.
You will make it. Therapy and this and all those things you so smartly identified will help you too.
But Brigid is right, there are no shortcuts. The pain is something daunting, so it's also okay to feel it NOT alone...in support groups, here, with your T.
I think the book When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron would help you a lot.
Never mind the theology (it's Buddhist--I'm not)...just try out what she's saying.

Marta, hope it's okay that I copied your three suggested links and put them over on What Helps.

Arn, the part of you that is pulling away from this is the part of you that has decided to swim for the surface even though the pre-drowing moment, when you start to literally let go of survival...has a sleepy sort of comfort about it. Waking up involves struggle, you're in it.

And I know you'll reach the surface. Keep kicking--AWAY from her.

Hang in,
Hopalong

[Plucky]

Hi Arold,
I know how hard it is to make the decision to break up your family.  You have to recreate your life and do it also for your children.  You face untold nastiness and limbo.  It is daunting.

Maybe you need to go through more preliminary steps so that you are ready for it emotionally, not just intellectually.  If you need to ask yuor wife to go to counseling or try one last time to work it out with her, then do that.  You are there, and we are here, so you know a lot more about your situation than we do.

I think the important thing is to do something.  And keep things moving.  And don't try to forget what you know or postpone the pain.

I wish you strength and luck.
Plucky