befuddled at jekyl and hyde

[annabelle]

Hi,

I'm now separated from my husband - living in my own place - working towards legal separation or divorce right now.  At first when I told my husband I was moving out and getting a job and going to be living in my own space and most definitely (with a teeny sliver of a chance not) going to seek divorce bc he was an N and had hurt me and the kids too much, he appeared sorry and caring, and even helped me move my stuff in a U-Haul.  We talked much about the plans moving forward and he seemed to indicate of course I would have primary custody of the kids - be primary caregiver.  Well when I got to my new place just over a week ago and he helped move me in, things changed immediately.  

He mainly started dictating, threatening, bullying, harrassing with phone calls and e-mail............ with regard to the kids and custody.  First, new to me, he said, "We'll take the kids 50-50.  I take them half the time, you the other."  (They are only 2 and 3 1/2)  Then, the night before Christmas Eve he declared he was taking the kids to his parents' house for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, when we had agreed to go Christmas Eve together for the kids and so we both could share in their excitement.  He told me that there was nothing I could do about it, and when I walked away from him with the kids, he said, come back here and let me kiss my kids goodnight, otherwise I'll present you with a court injunction for kidnapping or holding the kids hostage.  The next evening, Christmas Eve, he told me he would take the kids to his parents that evening and I could forget seeing them on Christmas Eve, (that night.)  Then, when I started packing their things, he said, "oh I'm so sorry, you deserve to be with them on Christmas Eve......" and hugged me, etc. etc. being so tender and penitent (all of a sudden.)  Through all this, he wouldn't let me use "our" car to drive the kids home to see my parents after his parents, as he said he needed the car for business.  When I said o.k. my parents are coming up to see me then, he called me a martyr and told me not to make such a big point of it.   It's like I couldn't get any response right - everything I did was wrong, while he screwed me to the wall!  Then after Christmas weekend, he announced he would be taking the kids full time because "You abandoned the relationship.  You left and you're not taking the kids with you."  When I said, no, it's my turn with the kids, he said "If you don't have the kids back here by 7pm, I'll serve you with a court injunction."  The next night, he told me that he would keep the kids full time, every night, and get a nanny to cover when he wasn't home.

The next day, today, he told me in an e-mail that he expected to see the kids every night, whether they slept at his house or mine, and that he expected the kids on weekends, from Friday night to Monday morning.  

At the same time, he kept writing e-mails asking me why I wasmaking this so hard and couldn't we make time to come to an agreement (when it was he who was dictating to me that he would have full custody of the kids. )  He twisted around his actions to pretend in an e-mail that I wasn't letting us cooperate on this!  (for his lawyer, I'm sure.)  The, tonight, he lets me keep the kids and says "may I see them for a little while?"  I say yes, and then let him up to my apartment to read them some stories at 7 pm, rather than making him stay in the lobby to read.  I tell him if he comes up, he is not to talk about us, that I do not have the emotional or mental energy to communicate with him due to his actions, but that I have to because of the kids.  Of course he comes up, ignores the kids for most of the time, pouts, starts crying, begs for a hug, says he's scared to be here, he feels he's in never never land, who can he talk to, he's so sorry, etc.  But in his e-mails he'd written that we both weren't handling things well, we both needed to communicate better, I was holding the kids hostage and changing the plans, his business was suffering bc I wasn't on time with the kids and changed the plans, etc.   I told him tonight I did not trust him and he'd hurt me very much and I felt like he was trying to take the kids away from me, but that I would hug him.  then, I didn't let him reach out again, even though he stood there (fake?) crying, seeking pity for HIM!  The perpetrator!  He was the victim yet once again, after he was doing the threatening, harrassing, etc.  

Help please, I feel soooooooooooooooooo confused, drained, hopeless, sorry for him, sorry for me.  I want to be non-litigious and work out custody and relate to him healthily for the sake of the kids, but now I truly feel I can't trust him and so I should do anything in my power to protect myself and the kids.  I'm just still finding it hard to believe someone could be that Jekyl and Hyde or that fake (with regard to the crying, false penitence, etc.)  Or, does he just not get the consequences of his actions, and does he see himself as the perpetual victim?

[Elizabeth]

Annabelle,

First of all; good for you taking a stand and looking for a better life. You can feel proud of yourself for doing a brave thing in the light of crazy making relationship. You are doing ok!

Secondly; he is getting what he wants even now... toxic connection, which is better than no connection at all. It is going to be hard, because he wants it to be hard... especially if it is hard for him; it has to be made to be at least as hard for you.

You can do this thing...  For you, for your kids, for the sake of sanity and separateness. Decide what you can and cannot handle, set your boundaries and find out what your legal rights are with the kids. This whole thing is more about him holding on to you in his sick way than it is about what he wants concerning the kids.

Hang in there! You are not the confusing and crazy making one. This is his stuff being pushed off on you. Maybe you can take the kids away for a day and find some space to breath, to relax, to take care of you.

Elizabeth

[Anonymous]

Annabelle,

You need an attorney. The visitation has to be put in writing. You can't do this ad hoc negotiating with a crazy man. You need a family law attorney, immediately.

[Pat]

Hello Annabelle,

First I want to reiterate the last post - you need a lawyer asap!  I believe you're dealing with a powder keg that can barely contain himself from exploding.  (more on that later)

Congratulations - you are so courageous!  Having taken that giant step to getting out is SOOOOO big and you need to be acknowledged for that!  By now you have experienced how very difficult this is (I've had my own experience of this but before children).  The begging and pleading mixed in with the rage and accusing is very confusing.  My experience is that the rage is the underlying emotion and the other stuff is to try and keep you hooked into the relationship in any way possible.  I hope you are getting support from people who love you because you will need it.  

Having been through a similar situation I would like to offer any support that I can.  If you choose to, contact me at elladumas@hotmail.com  The idea that you can get through this without good legal support only serves one person, your husband.  He'll rage on whether you have a lawyer or not because he's losing control and that's all he sees right now.   In order to do the best you can for your children and yourself you need legal support.  

All the best to you,
Pat

[hope2003]

I agree with the others. You need a lawyer immediately.  I have been where you are at--Dealing with, and divorcing a crazy person who twists everything around.  

You need somebody who can intercept this crazy behavior, and manage it better.  Plus, it will be documented if there is a custody fight.  

I know that you don't want to be litigious, but you probably won't have a choice.  You have one chance to get divorced and get custody, and you better do it right. Changing things after the fact is nearly impossible because the legal standards for modifications are very high.

I am a lawyer.  I am in the middle of a divorce.  I have small kids, just like you.  My ex is nuts.

Trust me and protect yourself.

You have lots of support.

[Anonymous]

dispassionately keep a record of everything- all the emails/ calls/ letters / threats etc.

[Anonymous]

I am in your situation before you left- low level violence and working towards moving out for the second time. Can't believe I went back...

Well done for being brave and never trust him again to have your best interests in mind, no matter how convincing he is or how hard it gets- or he'll just manipulate you back to where he left off.

[Acappella]

Hi Annabelle,

I want to be non-litigious & work out custody & relate to him healthily for the sake of the kids

What is it you mean when you say "unhealthy"?  You clearly have some vision/reaction to the idea of legal representation.

  Who said litigious = unhealthy?  (no i am not a lawyer   )  Sounds like litigious = healthy in your situation (mine too when I get there).  Lawyers fill a need, a gap in negotiation skills, in communications skills etc. despite their being the brunt of bad jokes.

Anyway, I so agree with the prior posts about protecting yourself & your children.  (and if you must consider him then consider that not enabling his unhealthy tactics is protecting him too actually).

If you are like me you have been working to understand & doing so in the absence of his being even one tenth as CONSISTENTLY & ACTIVELY interested in understanding.  If that is the case then i have a few things to say to you:  

1) STOP. Take turns TAKE YOUR TURN - meaning take your turn to NOT focus on him. In addition to the wild & crazy self indulgence of twirling your spaghetti on a spoon PAMPER yourself, get some energy back..get a massage, go to an inspiring movie, buy your favorite tea & chocolate & a book. If I recall your husband was crazy controlling & to survive living with that I imagine you've never had much practice at letting yourself be freely & proudly.  If that is true then he has undoubtedly depended on your self sacrifice & denial - he'll feed on it not because he lays awake at night trying to figure out ways to hurt you but because he is starved & knows no other way to try & nurish himself.  

2)   ASK YOURSELF When you cannot do that then ask yourself why...is it guilt? fear? mourning? - Or all of those and/or something else that keeps you befuddled & trying to understand him?  Guilt that you shouldn't ever stop trying if you love someone?  If that is true then doesn't that apply to him too? Do you have an image of how a wife should be, a mom, a family that you feel responsible for alone? I have discovered that part of why I have been with a N traited man is that I found a sort of security in the image I had of how things SHOULD be - that is fine but when our protection becomes our prison it is like an over active immune system - when it no longer works in our favor then time to search for balance.

3) CONSIDER YOUSELF:?: Is the jekyl & hyde aka either or interpretation coming from you too?  Meaning if you don't see the shade of gray between the black & white of his pleasing & punishing then he will seem like two extremes when in fact he is the same guy.  I do that with my husband.  It is with my own  blinders when he is in pleasing mode or punishing mode that I create two extreme ideas of him & of course he gives me plenty of material for that!

"It's such a fine line between a good man and a bad..." Jekyll & Hyde, The Musical.

 It is the dichotomy that makes the line fine.   Knowing this much about my husband (and thereby human nature in general) I found helpful: It isn't an either or thing...his tears may be very real AND, AND, & the way he is responding to the situation is also very real & very destructive to you, your children (and ultimately i imagine your husband).  Your husband sounds to me like he is flailing (symptom of vulnerability) & using very hurtful tactics in response:  jekyl & hyde.  Some people, my husband with N traits for example, grew up in environments where bullying was an effective & mandated response to vulnerability so he became good at it & uses it habitually to survive.   The more pressure they are under the more they resort to those strategies. Survival must now require something else of them or else why would they change? Change isn't easy so we all avoid it until we are highly motivated to.  As long as he can use power to get any sort of control he will continue to go that direction is my guess.  A good lawyer knows how NOT to cave into that behavior.  My guess is he does feel victimized. (And why not if N types are enslaved to an false image not originally of their making?) & what is he doing about that other than blaming you?  & that in no way justifies what he is doing to your children!    I believe we enable them when we provide an environment that supports their destructive behavior.  

3) REALIZE YOU ARE YOU NOT HIM so you will not ever totally "get it" about his behavior because that is not how your mind & heart works.  And, you can gain understanding of the relationship without sacrificing protection - in fact with a sense of safety & sources with which to renew the energy he drains from you you will have more strength to get understanding of what happened.

4) YOU ARE YOU so why not believe your experience?
 

finding it hard to believe

  If you believed it then what?  You say that you "find it hard".  That suggests to me that if you did then something bad would occur.  For me I find it hard believe to believe it in part because I don't want to face that people can act that way & that someone in my life can & I don't want to because I don't feel equipped to survive that harsh reality.  Of course there are lots of reasons, but love was eclipsed long ago & now it is fear mostly that keeps me ignorant & befuddled.

You have done so well getting out & on your own & I hope you get support & protection for all of the courageous & difficult work you have done - neither should be a threat to anyone who is capable of truly caring about you & neither IS a threat, both are necessary for a whole family.  

As you can read from all of these posts, our hearts & thoughts are with you.

[annabelle]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for the kind and inspiring and reality providing words and thoughts.  I haven't been on the board in a while because I'm a little nervous about posting too much right now - I told my husband about the board - mistakenly - to let him know how much it's helped me and maybe thinking he could read what Nism does to people - but duh, I didn't realize while I was saying this that he would be able to read what I'd written.  Plus, do we really want an N reading the board?  What was I thinking?  I was trying to reach out to him to give him the experience I've received - the help from firsthand experiences.   I don't know if he remembered the link or not, or if he's been on this board but he did promise me that he would respect my privacy after I told him I was mistaken in telling him about the board, and please not to go on it.  However, a promise from a Narcissist is nothing.  

Anyway, I would love to write more as things progress and i feel more comfortable jumping back on it under perhaps his eyes too. Basically I don't care if he reads what I've wrote - I haven't withheld anything I've said on this message board to him.  I just don't want him to know how things are being handled on my end.

You say I'm strong for leaving.  But I don't know if I'd have been able to leave without the support from all of you.  Unbelievable.  I've never met you but have shared so much with you and have learned so much, too.  Thank you.  I'll be lurking and responding to others' posts and will update you on my crap/soap opera/drama that is life with an N,  when I can.

Peace to all.

Annabelle

[CC]

Annabelle - the irony that is truth -

Sometimes when we are being the strongest ever, we feel the weakest and most vulnerable.  You are exactly where you are supposed to be, and believe me, you are stronger than ever.

Love, CC