N natter-chatter: ways to cope

[Hopalong]

Would love to hear both venting and solutions stories about the stream of self-talk from Ns.
I bet there are some funny, some stern, and some inspired ideas about this...

I think it's one of the most exhausing things that Ns do...and I'm often caught with my guard down and feel as drained as an old bathtub by the time they're done.

Would love some good stream-of-yak boundary tips.

Thanks!

Hopalong

[cat]

Hopalong! First - a cordless phone is a must!  When they say "I've got to go - but I've got just one more thing to tell you" for the 30th time - I go to my apartment door - and either ring the doorbell or knock. 

They can hear it through the phone and you can hang up.  I've also put an old phone on mute, and walked around the house doing chores (yes, I am a bad daughter).

However, when I'm with them in the same room - it's much more difficult.  I try to excuse myself frequently to go "down the hall".  The other thing that happened was they talked so much I got a migraine headache and wound up vomiting for the rest of the day (they left me alone then.)

Any ideas on what to do when they're in the same room - I'd LOVE to hear them.

[Hopalong]

When N Mom starts at me I feel constrained by compassion (she's 95) and then go hide in my room asap and stuff myself.

I'm turning into a whale from stuffing screams.

The dog thing GOT me. Usually I go and hide and can calm down but this one snuck thru my ribs.

Errgggh. Bleeaccchh.

Hops

[solayads]

Why do N's chatter so much???  Is it ONLY because they are so self-absorbed or is it some kind of psychosis that causes them to go on about themselves for extended periods of time and at the most inconvenient times?

Shouldn't they get the hint when folks ignore them???

Can anyone shed some light on this?


Solayads

[Healing&Hopeful]

I thought this might make you smile... it was written by Lisa Rock on 01/06/05 and she was writing about support groups you'd like to see....

4 ) Narcissistics Anonymous: Run the ad saying: Need to talk about yourself? Seems like no one listens? This is the place for you. Talk freely. Then they only have to put a full length mirror out front and the meeting runs itself.

[Hopalong]

Hey Solyads,
I think that's a really significant question. I too really would like to know WHY. I know there's a constant thread of self-praise (a quite amazing degree of it) in her chatter. I also am struck by the endless repetitiveness of her stories. We could chalk it up to old age except that's only increased it by a tiny factor. She has always, always, repeated her anecdotes. They're delivered in almost exactly the same words, with the same affect, tone, content, wording...even if it's the same one at age 50, 60, 70 (assuming dozens of repetititions in between). She almost seems to pantomime appropriate emotional reactions.  It almost makes me crazy because it's as though she is totally unaware of my existence. There's a carefully structured narrative but it's almost as though she herself isn't there either.

I will (have, anyway) listen sincerely and courteously, take note of the story's meaning, significance, etc., and make an appropriate response that SHOWS I HAVE TAKEN IT IN. But then days later, the tape starts again and I feel this horrible sensation of: "I am invisible. She is insatiable. What's wrong with this picture is there is no DIALOGUE. I'm just a receptacle."

Anyway, that's probably a familiar description to anyone who's close to an N. But I too would really like to know WHY it works that way, if anyone has any ideas.

Not to mention copiing ideas things. Is there ANYTHING other than faking interest that works?

Short of abuse (my NMom does not do that, and I'm grateful)...I think this verbal constant barrage has really done a number on my own mental health. It's like a kind of torture because I feel twisted inside between my own desire to behave like a human being and an inner banshee who wants her to SHUT UP.

More ideas, wise ones!
(And H & H, thanks for the  !)

Hopalong

[write]

I work with seniors and a lot of elderly repeat their same anecdotes over and over, it's a kind of comfort habit I guess.

For n s reliving their n-moments probably gives some kind of n-reassurance...I know from what I've seen that n s seem to become very depressed when their mind ( and voice ) is not occupied, like being left alone with themselves if they're not preoccupied is unbearable?

Especially maybe if they're now pretty inactive/ impotent and unimportant?

My ex doesn't do this as much, though I remember when he would talk at me constantly, seeing any response as an interruption! I have read a book whilst he has been spouting and he hasn't noticed!

I think you can only time-limit your contact and accept she isn't going to change much now.

Sometimes a new audience helps? The seniors I work with get regular visits from high school kids who get extra credit for volunteer work.

[Hopalong]

I hear you. I hide in my room a lot.
I do understand the repetitiveness of the elderly, and NMom is.

But...she has behaved EXACTLY this way for as long as I remember.
A droning, tape-like narrative, same stories/homilies repeated in the same way (tone, affect, phrasing)...for many decades.

It's almost as though she doesn't think. Literally does not think. And that freaks me out.

Only solution when we share the house and I'm responsible for her wellbeing is to endure it, and hide as much as I can.

I have to desensitize myself to a great degree and that sets up a strong inner conflict because I am...sensitive. Dang.

Thanks, Write.
Hopalong

[write]

I wish you didn't feel like you have to live with her, though I understand your reasons for doing so.

How come well-intentioned sensitive people always end up being trampled on by the most insensitive people?

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Healing&Hopeful]

How come well-intentioned sensitive people always end up being trampled on by the most insensitive people?

I feel that this is because we are more tollerant than most people.  We grew up with this, and while growing up with it we learned to tollerate more than the average person.  We grew up with an unhealthy boundary.

I too though, have no idea why they carry on with the chatter as they do.  With my n bio dad.... I can relate to so much that you are all saying.... the endless chatter, the same stories.  I hear them again and again and again, and got to the point where I switched off from the same stories, and then switched off when he just started droning on and on about himself.  By the end I probably only listened to about 10% if that of what came out of his mouth.  Sad hey!

H&H xx

[nightsong]

How come well-intentioned sensitive people always end up being trampled on by the most insensitive people?

We are trained for it from early infancy. We have always been there for the N parent's needs, rather than the other way round as it should be in a healthy child/parent relationship. We don't have normal boundaries about this kind of mental and emotional abuse, because wee've never known any different from our parents 

[write]

I understand why we are who we are, I guess what I don't really understand is despite all our efforts...the people we take care of don't respond or change. Much at least.

I still feel I want to be the person I am though- giving more than receiving for a while longer.

Though I would not under any circumstances do what H has done and undertake the long term care of an N in my own home environment.

Kudos H, and hope we can help you through it.

xoxoxoxo

[onlyrenting]

Married for 27 years to a constant chatter from H-N.

Now with court and divorce in the next few weeks, 9mos later, the chatter a distant memory.
I remember how you become numb to the never ending sound of their voice.
I look back and wondered why I couldn't remember ever being so quiet around other people, I had known before my H.
After I was married I thought maybe I was becoming depressed  and quiet from growing up with a mother who was just so rejecting and had her own emotional abuse from her parents.

I would listen to him talk about himself, his problems, and what I could do to help him.
I remember walking in the door from a long day at work to hear all about his day. There was never any time left in a day to talk about my day. His life was in such distress and always more of the challenge for the day.

I remember he would never stop, he talked when I was trying to sleep, he would wake everyone up so we could all hear what he had to say.Dalily  I would beg him to stop talking to let me sleep but he would just ignore me. I would plug my ears with my fingers, letting him talk on and on.

One day I was hearing him go on an on, I was in the kitchen, I banged the pots and pans so I could not hear him. (he was being very rude and mean). Like nothing was being said I kindly then said the " dog needs to be feed" he got up from his chair stopped talking to feed the dog and then continued without a hitch.

I was thinking how odd when I interrupped him, to feed the dog, he walked like a robot in a trans, at that moment I was thinking why would he do anything I asked when he was talking to me so rude.
I can remember times his eyes would be like cold steel blue, vacant or distant and other times his eyes would be kind and warm. I would tell him he had shark eyes, but not knowing why.

Driving in the car we were all trapped, I would often bring a word book so we could play a game " guess what this word means? He could then focus on something we could all join in on and show how smart he was.
 
If you let him go his own way the conversation could get ugly. He often listen to music, his whole life centers around his music. I think this is helpful for a stressed out N, he would listen over and over until he knew everything about the song. 

I think the chatter can be very destructive, as his mouth never stopped his mind would also absorb the negative thoughts making the hate dwell in the heart. Then in their quite time the tape recoder of all the negative thoughts are being heard over and over eventually to  rewrite their own "it's all your fault" history. 

I wonder if the brain has some kind of kink that gets them so stuck in a trans like fix, they need help to move them off the track. I remember the struggle of reminding my N H of the positive things about his life but found he wanted to rewind his negative tapes over and over as though he could not stop himself.

Life with an N is exhausting !!


OR

[miss piggy]

Hello,

My Major N is very uncomfortable with silence.  As my mother says "he can't be alone with his own thoughts."  He has the TV and radio going all the time if there are no people to bore.  Or he sleeps.  Funny thing is, he doesn't like to talk on the telephone.  You have to be there in person to experience him in all his N glory.  I wonder if he has that "object constancy" issue or whatever.  That is, if he can't see it, it doesn't exist or it isn't a part of him... 

I read this great line somewhere..."if I listen, I might have to change my thinking..."     MP

[guest444]

This is interesting because in my family, my Mother talks constantly (maybe because Dad never listens to her?) and my N. father makes faces behind her back to draw attention away from her.  Or sometimes he pretends like he's pounding on her head, or strangling her, wilst making funny faces. He is also always waiting for the break in any conversation so he can add a cynical joke or just his 2cents about how he's the authority on [whatever is being discussed] and how [whoever is being discussed] doesn't know as much as he does on the topic.  Wine is a good example.  Somehow in the past few years he's become an expert on everything having to do with winemaking and growing grapes (he attended some wine academy in Napa a few years ago) although he's never grown a grape in his life.  Another popular saying of his is that beer is somehow inferior to wine (except Heinekin, which he receives as gifts from his students).  He will actually argue that someone who drinks Corona, "doesn't know that beer is crap."  Sometimes you laugh because what he says is so outrageous and off the wall--that you can't believe he's just said it. His descriptions of episodes with neighbors or students, for example, where he is the "tough guy who doesn't take crap from no one."  One time he described an incident where he harrassed a neighbor about her barking dog.  The woman was a college student (easy prey); him or my Mom or both, went over to her house and threatened her that if 'she didn't control her barking dog, my Dad would lose control of his car, and it would end up on her driveway at 2 in the morning, honking."  People laughed, but I was secretly horrified.  My Mom went on to describe how the police showed up and prohibited either of them from coming within 20 feet of the woman's house again!  They seemed proud of this.  People laughed, but we were thinking (at least I was) "how sick is that, that poor woman--I feel sorry for her, having him as a neighbor."   He doesn't care that we are laughting AT him, either, he's just happy he has the attention of the room.


People outside our immediate family (those who have married into it) think his behavior is rude to strange, to say the least, and that his reactions to things are often inappropriate and sometimes utterly confusing.  On father's day, for example, my sister in law told my Dad "Happy Father's Day."  My Dad appeared offended and replied "I'm not your father, don't wish me a happy father's day."  (this put her in her "Place" instantly).