concept of 'narcissistic supply'

[write]

is this term a general psychiatric term or something which came from the pop psych writings on the internet?


my experience of
ns is that they do require an audience when nothing is going on, but quite often are totally self-absorbed in whatever they are doing- to the complete exclusion of others.

[Hop guest]

Hey Write,
Just a quick thought but I've known quite a few Ns who were brilliant at absorbing themselves in work or other activities. The way I understand "supply" is that when they're in a relationship (or a when a relationship forces them to deal with other people)--they're only in it to get attention. In some way or other, every exchange is evaluated or twisted around in their heads so it's about THEM. Even when they deal with children.

I know several single, accomplished, brilliant Ns who do shut others out for long stretches to concentrate. But, in most Ns I've happened to get to know, the end goal is work (in some cases lovely work)...that will bring them attention, adulation, admiration, etc.  Full circle = Supply.

Maybe it's just in pursuit of "deferred Supply" or "bigger Supply" that so many Ns will neglect, blow off, disregard the normal need for intimacy and connection and belonging that others who are "close" to them (partner, bf or gf or family) have.

That sure can hurt. Ow. I remember so many instances where I knew I was not asking for much, but ANY attention that I sought for myself was rudely shoved aside. Before I knew what an N was, I just thought I didn't deserve to be liked.

Hopalong

[miss piggy]

Hello write and hops,

I remember so many instances where I knew I was not asking for much, but ANY attention that I sought for myself was rudely shoved aside. Before I knew what an N was, I just thought I didn't deserve to be liked.

Wow, hops, you described my childhood to a tee 

Um, I don't know if NS is a legitimate psych term or not. 

I wanted to ask about grandiose thinking.  What is the difference between grandiose thinking and daydreams/fantasies about becoming a (fill in the blank with dream occupation) or becoming president of the united states, or whatever?  I daydream a lot about stuff like this, like gee, I wonder what it would be like to become an artist or to publish a story, etc.  Is that narcissistic?     Is it narcissistic to dream?

I recently met a journalist and after I got to know her a little, told her (in a friendly goofy way) that she was living my "dream career".    Like "I dream about it, and you're actually doing it.  Cool."  She was really nice about it and we have great chats about journalism in general.  I mean, I think i am still rooted in some reality here...sooo any insights?

Thanks, MP

[Healing&Hopeful]

I wanted to ask about grandiose thinking.  What is the difference between grandiose thinking and daydreams/fantasies about becoming a (fill in the blank with dream occupation) or becoming president of the united states, or whatever? 

Hiya MP.... I don't think what your thinking is N.  From my perspective I would say that grandiose thinking is thinking that you're the best... your better than everyone else and look down on anyone else doing the same thing, or even look down on people who are better than you but who have some trait that you don't like etc etc etc.

I feel it's healthy to wonder about other professions and wonder what it was like to do that job.... Do you think you'll give something a try?  Like with art, you could possibly get some paper and paints and have a go one evening.... or write a short story to begin with?

[miss piggy]

Hi H&H,

Thanks for the reassuring reply!  That helped clear it up for me.

And yes, I dabble in just about everything!  I'm the BEST dabbler, hah!    MP

[Hop guest]

Hey MP,
What I understand about the grandiosity is that the N's fantasies/daydreams of being president, famous, the most brilliant beautiful accomplished person anywhere...is that they are usually not matched with commensurate achievement.

Certainly, many Ns are highly accomplished. But there are plenty of more modest genuises around. Dedicated teachers, scientists, entrepreneurs...who achieve like crazy both for the pleasure of accomplishment and/or for giving something to the world. And it's also normal to have an ego and get excited and proud now and then.

What an N accomplishes may LOOK like it's "for the world"--but you and we know, it ain't. Or it mostly ain't.

Daydreams of achievement? NORMAL. Fleeting fantasies of fame? In this culture, NORMAL.

My last Nbf was a very gifted artist. Makes really, really lovely prints of flowers. However, he used to describe it all to me in private as part of some GRANDIOSE fantasty of changing the world. Way beyond the normal pleasure any artist or writer gets from "audience". Many creative professions require audience because that's the nature of it...it only completes the work to share it.

But I've been close to two N artists and two N entrepreneurs...beneath the grandiose fantasies was raging envy of those who HAVE achieved a "big profile"--and lots of contempt. A hidden sneer.

Ugggh.

Hopalong

[write]

I wanted to ask about grandiose thinking.  What is the difference between grandiose thinking and daydreams/fantasies about becoming a (fill in the blank with dream occupation) or becoming president of the united states, or whatever?  I daydream a lot about stuff like this, like gee, I wonder what it would be like to become an artist or to publish a story, etc.  Is that narcissistic?

oh I am a bipolar, way ahead of you on the grandiosity. One who can write, compose, play, talk, do just about anything: talk about head in the clouds! Plus I have flitted from career to career, as soon as i learn one thing I want to do another...totally uncommitted, unreliable and selfish!

I'm just joking ( though I can be grandiose when I'm manic, and have also overreached and done some of my most interesting things! ) but there's a difference between daydreaming and goal-setting which you may need to explore if you are frequently imagining change both realistic or fantasy.

There's a great book 'Do what you love and the money will follow' Marsha Sinetar- which explores finding your right livelihood and exploring what holds us back.

Also this year I got myself 'Simple Abundance: a daybook of comfort and joy' Sarah Ban Breathnach which I am working through daily.

I'm trying to stop running around and steadfastly build on the calm and strengths in my life right now.


***

[write]

beneath the grandiose fantasies was raging envy of those who HAVE achieved a "big profile"--and lots of contempt. A hidden sneer.

if I want to annoy ex n-h even now all I have to do is refer to someone else ( even a famous person from history ) as a genius or great mind, he will always respond as though he's been kicked!

[Hop guest]

Write, that's wicked!
(In a good way...)

 

Hopalong

[miss piggy]

Hey Write,  wicked good!

Thanks for letting me hitchhike on your thread! And for the book recommendations.  I'm heavy into book therapy so you know I'll check those out.  Thanks.

raging envy of those who HAVE achieved a "big profile"--and lots of contempt. A hidden sneer.

Gosh, Hops, are you my lost twin or something?  My Nfather is soooo eager to cut down local celebs and basketball stars (he played).  And he "could have been [this] or could have been [that]"  but he wasn't, was he?   

I once saw a very funny skit at Second City (famous comedy club in Chicago) with Chris Farley before he was famous!  He and another guy were acting as security at Wrigley Field. 
To invisible ticketholder: "Hey, hey, hey buddy! stay on THAT side of the line.  That's more like it!"
To each other: "I could have been vice squad, but you know, I'm too nice a guy (or something)"
other guy: "yeah, I could have been FBI, but I have this trick knee."
first guy: "oh, oh, I was recruited for the CIA but I wanted to stay here..."

It was hysterical.

Were any of you ever on the receiving end of the sneer?  I received plenty of sneers from Nbro if I achieved anything or attempted new things.  It was tough trying to make folks proud but not one-up them either!  Invisibility is easier!  One time I took a pretty visible job position and I near went into panic even though I had the skills to do it...ugh.  I can't take the sneers.  Another time, within the family, I made some really nice albums for everyone and Nbrother was appreciative, critical, jealous, and angry all at the same time!    By that time, though, I expected this response and just calmly told him he could do whatever he wanted with it, that I just wanted to do it.

[Hopalong]

MP,
OH yeah. Sneers (hidden by "courtesy" in NMom's code, but NBrother still sneers) and condescension.

And weirdly but maybe relatedly...competition.
I've done poetry seriously for 30 years: M.A., publishing, readings, etc.
NMom wrote a bit of treacly doggerel about being ill and people thought it was cute and she has literally given away 100 copies. She carries it with her and foists it on every hapless nurse, doctor, visitor, ad nauseum. It's in her Christmas letter. She sent it to the paper. (Sadly, they didn't respond.)

I was HAPPY she wrote it and people praised her. It's just (I swear to God I am not exaggerating) that I am exhausted by how many times she's reminded me how much everyone loved her poem. 100s.

(Meanwhile, she never mentions my work. Recently I got a handwritten note from a national news anchor who'd read one... she said that's nice and did I tell you that so and so just loved MY poem the other day?)

Yikers. That's off topic, not exactly about sneering. But I guess squashing your kids' talents to showcase your own is a form of sneer, maybe? (Shove over! Only room for ONE poet in this house!) Gee. Before I got good at it she didn't display any special interest in poetry...

Sigh.

Hops (and thanks for that hilarious sketch with Farley!  )

[Hopalong]

Eww. I just wondered if what I just posted about my poetry was an Nspot. (I definitely have them.)

I can't tell when I'm being a voice hog and when I'm being a mini-N and when I'm healthily proud of myself.

I really don't know the difference but I know even asking myself the question makes me squirm.

Hop

[write]

I can't tell when I'm being a voice hog and when I'm being a mini-N and when I'm healthily proud of myself.

well be all three and be done with it!

"There Is A Voice Inside Of You
That Whispers All Day Long,
"I Feel That This Is Right For Me,
I Know That This Is Wrong."
No Teacher, Preacher, Parent, Friend
Or Wise Man Can Decide
What's Right For You- Just Listen To
The Voice That Speaks Inside."

[write]

poem was Shel Silverstein ps.

[Marta]

N supply is a term I've read mostly in Sam Vaknin's (ughh!!) writing.

MP, grandiose fantasies of Ns are filled with embellishments and twisting of truths of their own achievements. Generally N's are so off from reality.

Recently I got a handwritten note from a national news anchor who'd read one... she said that's nice and did I tell you that so and so just loved MY poem the other day?)

Why Hop, that's lovely, especially to get recognition at national level when you get so little at home. Keep up the good work.