i need advice

[darky]

hi guys, you have been great im so glad i have found this board, its been a god send it really has.
i need your advice about something. im certain my mother is n. see my other posts for details! i have a problem and im not quite sure how to deal with it.
me and one of my sisters were devalued by our mother 2 yrs ago. it was a silly argument that in hindsight was very staged by our mother. as far as our mother is concerned, me, my sister and our 6 children between us cease to exist.
the problem i have is, for years i struggled to understand my mothers behaviour, now its clear why she act the way she does. she is cold and has a black heart. when i was 5 i remembered having a brainscan. all i rememebered about it was telling people i had it because my mum thought i was mental, and boy was i in for it when she was alone with me.
i suffered post natel depression 11 yrs ago when i had my son. i had counceling and it went quite deep asking me about my childhood etc. it bothered me i rememebered having a scan and a stay in hospital. i didnt ever know if the stay in hospital was related to the brainscan. i asked my mum, she said she forgot, so i challenged her then and said if you cant tell me then i will have to find out. then come the emotional blackmail. "whats the matter with you, you always put me down, your accusing me of being a bad mother" etc etc. so i let it go.

anyway, it lived with me not knowing, its taken me 2 yrs since my mother devalued me to have the courage to find out. i did find out, i went and read the notes and got copies of why i was in hospital and had a brainscan.
it turned out, that i used to have violent outbursts, lashing out and injuring members of the family. on the doctors notes was "we are concerned at the mothers attitude towards the child, and obvious rejection, the childs disturbing behaviour is undoubtably caused by the lack of bonding with her mother, we shall ask a social worker to follow up the case"

now, i have contacted other, devalued members of the family and none of them knew a social worker was involved. all of them believed my mother was someone who coped. they are very surprised and shocked to learn this.

now the smoking gun, im not going to go fully into it here, but i have viewed my notes held about me from the social worker. there is some very interesting reading in there, which proves my theory about my mum. she always did paint this picture to the outside world about who she really is and i knew that but didnt dare to challenge it when i was talking to her.

im glad i found this information as its put my mind at rest even more that im not to blame. learning about n has also been a comfort to know that no matter what shes not going to change. but! i feel i need to have the last word here. i feel its one argument i want to have with her that she cannot intimidate me and make me feel like ive lost, crumble into submission and appologise then end up on anti d's whilst she squashes me again!
i dont know the best way to handle this situation. in a way i want to tackle her head on, but in another way i want divine retribution for what she has done to me, my sister and our kids. also one of my uncles, my mums brother is dying of cancer. she devalued him 16 yrs ago and left him broken for the silliest of reasons. i feel i owe it to him too.
i am tempted to inform her nearest and dearest, the ones she has poisened against me and my family and leave her out of it. i feel like i want to kind of put all the pawns in place and before she knows it, expose her is like checkmate. i have evidence of her secret life. do you think that people might then distrust her and then listen to me??? or do you think im heading for the biggest of falls??? i feel i only have one shot at this, if i do it, so i dont want to mess it up. what would you do????

[helena]

hello,
I am so grateful to this site too and so happy and surprised to find out the truth about my mother for me it's me whoe the socialworkers came to see when my babygirl was only two days. I got this falt a few moths ago before ai lived with my boyfriend but since I turned a bit pw7ychotic when I expected my daughter we separated. Now we're planning to move together again but anyway the socials came to see me just when I have arived from the hospital and I think it was really stupoid. SInce my parents bully me since they want me to be scared. However all of this have made me aware of the truth that I have wondred all my life since I have never really understood my mother and why she has bee towards me like she has I have a sister too and we are the worst enemies. She has two babies too and she gave me a sack of clothes I got the advice not to accept it but I took it anyway since children's clothes are quite expensive. Now I realised that my mother has told my sister about the social's I have always loved children but they say that I am evil and what ever to make me feel bad. Well, you wanted some advice I am in somewhat the same situation I want to have the last word here. SInce I have realised that all my problems allmy life is due to my mother and I haven't understood it until now since they are two persons and I have sometimes been alone and my boyfriend being away alot. Well to win the battle with your mother that makes you look worse than you are and knowing she is narcissist and that they can lie about anything you have to be really clever.  Let the socialworkers see what your mother has done to yo9ur siblings let them knoe everything since narcissit often are in contact with kind people which you probably is much kinder then themselves  who probably is very good at keeping secrets. SO let them know everything in a subtle way I don't really know how you should do this but reveal all secrets in some way... bye bye helena 

[write]

Hello and welcome.

i feel like i want to kind of put all the pawns in place and before she knows it, expose her is like checkmate. i have evidence of her secret life. do you think that people might then distrust her and then listen to me??? or do you think im heading for the biggest of falls??? i feel i only have one shot at this, if i do it, so i dont want to mess it up.

my immediate thoughts are:
you're rightfully angry right now, but have already opened up a dialogue about your mother with the wider family and discovered that other people recognised your childhood neglect and abuse. That hurts, but it is validating.

You make revealing the secret sound like the final move in a game.
Questions you might ask yourself:

Even if you 'win' then what?
How will you feel about exposing someone's weaknesses?
Why do you have to be the family champion?
Are you still in some way afraid of her and cannot confront her personally?
Is your revelation going to cause more pain to others? Things can't be unsaid.

Divine retribution means- God dishes it out. In due course.

Is there a way you can find your voice in this in a more healthy way than 'I hate you- now checkmate'?


what would you do????

take more time to come to terms with your discoveries & seek out a counsellor to help heal the pain of a difficult childhood.

[2224Jessica]

Hi Darky,
Your family is sooo much like mine...
My older brother recently told us that when he was 17 (he's now 32) he spent the night at his girlfriends house. The next day they charged in to the girlfriends house (she was 24) while she was at work and my Dad attempted to strangle him (it was really viscious). My dad has a temper, we all know that and it only happens once in a blue moon while mum will rage almost everyday. My brother said what shocked him was that mum cheered dad on and said,"keep going, keep going". My brother said that was one of the many things that happened. It tramatized him he said. He was ashamed of the marks on his neck and hid them. He's quite  strong so he managed to fight dad off. I was very shocked by the news but still remained partially in denial. However him opening up got me thinking (over a few months). He planted a seed that managed to slowly but surely opened my eyes to remember the reality of my own abuse from them.. Even though I knew, I wasn't ready to face my own reality straight away. people who are use to  your mums abuse may not change and thats a possibility but there will be people who will take notice. There are always a few people who probably supspect that something is not quite right with your mum.
I don't really know what the best thing to do but I think you have to be at a peaceful place when this happens because anything could happen and even if you get the response you are looking for your mum will try tactics and you have to be ready for everything.  I think beans suggestions about slowly dropping hints is the best suggestion first. It prepares people. I do definately understand your need for the truth to come out. I am a big believer in speaking truth. I think in the end truth prevails. Don't be dissapointed if you don't get the response you want because these things often take time to process. Stand your ground and don't buckle if your mother tries to rope you in again.
My mother tries all tactics to make me buckle, but I've now seen the light and there's no turning back. I don't care if my parents ever change because I feel like I am in charge of my own destiny and I don't feel guilty if I'm not pleasing them. I have told them that they have no right to control me, I am not their property. I do feel like I want people to know the truth and if I have evidence like you do I would certainly use it. I would use it to free myself rather than revenge. Because standing up for what you believe after you have been raised to be silent is very freeing.... Even if people don't do anything about it won't go unheard.  You will know what is right for you, follow your heart. All the best Darky. Your not alone we all understand what you are going through...
Jessica

[Marta]

Darky,

I believe that you want to be "heard". You want others to know what you know, want them to s your point of view. I am with you on this one, I know what that feels like. As someone who's in your shoes, I want to warn you about what you may expect:

1. You think that showing the documentation will make others see what you know and have experienced. Wrong. The world has a remarkablecapacity for blindness and statusquo. What if someone tells you, like someone already did in this MB, why are you digging old skeletons etc? Would you like being in the defense box?

2. Expect you rmother to try and turn tables on you. That means, doing what it takes, revealing your secrets, disrupting your daily life, even framing you in something vulgar. Are you prepared for all that?

3. In the end, you are expecting justice from the world. Anyone who's tried a confrontation with Ns will tell you that divine retribution is simply not gonna happen.

BUT. There are pros to such an act. It means that you are taking a step towards challening the status quo, finding your voice, giving support to others who have been devalued, and making a decision to stop being an N supply. Just do it with your eyes open, with an awareness that the ultimate outcome may be quite different thn what you hoped for.

Hugs, Marta

[darky]

thanks guys for your help and understanding. i take on board what you all say and deep down i know im not going to get 100% what i want out of this. my head is telling me to drop it, deal with what i have learnt and get on with my life. but my heart is telling me to confront her one way or another.
for years this woman made me feel like i was lower than low, beneath her in everyway. she crushed all self esteem and made me doubt all my sanity and capabilities as a parent.
she makes people think shes the model mother and grandmother. she has used people i was close to to do her dirty work for her since she devalued me.
i guess now, its all about protesting my innocence. its about standing up to my abuser with something i feel on one hand she cannot turn on me, but having said that i can hear her now "you were 5 years old" as if thats got anything to do with it. she will twist and turn and make me feel as if this attack was unjustified and in the process turn even more people against me, proving to people i really am the vindictive person shes made me out to be all along. i know it!! but it still dont help me think about these things she has done to me and my family over the years!
why is it not good enough i know what she is?? why do i despise this woman in every way and want her to know i know??
why do i dream of a happy ever after with my dad taking me in his arms and saying sorry, he didnt know, leaving her and having a relationship with my kids! its not gonna happen!
its very painfull, i cant ignore it but i cant deal with it if that makes sense! would standing up to her undo some of the horrible things she said and done?? its hard to explain, i feel like i want to face up to my most horrid fears face on. kind of like someone who is scared of heights jumping out of a plane. 

[Healing&Hopeful]

((((((((((((Darky))))))))))))

I understand where you are coming from.  What your Mum did to you was shocking and she hurt you in ways that you didn't deserve.

It depends what you would like to achieve out of this.  Would standing up to her undo some of the horrible things she said and done?  Probably not.... why?  Because she would have to take responsibility for what she had done and I can't see this happening.

Maybe a way of helping to deal with this is to write her a letter.... write down everything that she did to you and how it made you feel at the time, then write how it makes you feel now.  The reason I say a letter means that you can write it, sit on it for a few days/weeks and then decide what you'd like to do.  You can even post it here if you would like to, and you could send it to her if you really wanted to, but it also gives you the time to think about what you would really like to do.

Take care

H&H xx

[darky]

hi healing, i agree a letter is good.BUT i have written a few letters to my mum but its always come back on me. that talking about my feelings means i am critising her and accusing her of being a bad mother, even if that was not the intention. in the letters, my mother has only ever been able to see what she wants to see and not look at what is actualy there even if it has been given a lot of thought to reduce that happening. with a letter she can twist it, turn it and make it look bad on me, she has done before. but i suppose this time i do have this stuff she never wanted me to find out. i dont know i really dont!!! talk about turmoil arghhhhhhh!!

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Darky

If she has twisted things with letters, the chances are that she would do it face to face also.  And she has known about what happened when you were 5, may have forgotten it, but she would have twisted and turned things round at the time.  Has she changed now?

This is a line at the beginning of my dad's email....
This is how I see it, so it could be argued it is my 'opinon' although I see it as just correctly interpreting the facts
I actually think this has more insight than I first thought.  It's with the sentence "I see it as just correctly interpreting the facts"  This says, I've correctly interpreted the facts so therefore you're wrong because I've done it right.

If a lot of N's are the same, this could be an insight... why?  Because it was said at the start of the email.... so before I even opened my mouth to reply and offer my point of view, I was wrong.

Maybe this is it.... maybe we are all wrong before we've spoke?

H&H xx

[darky]

oh hopefull you are so right!! isnt it soooooooo frustrating!! i just cannot tollerate people presuming to know what im thinking or what my intentions are!! this is because for years and years my mother has done it, twisted things and made me look so bad when i know im not! it makes me kick myself and wish i never bothered as its like she has this blindness that only reads between the lines!! is this another n trait?? one of the reasons she gave me for devaluing me was she was accusing me of conspiring with my sister. she actualy said my sister was here, laughing in the background when i was on the phone to my mum!!! it so wasnt true!! would she listen???? all i did was invite her for xmas!!!

i wrote her one letter once, that was all my daughters hospital records from when she was being diagnosed with adhd and aspergers syndrome. all i was doing was keeping her up to date with what was going on, even though i didnt speak to her at the time. in one of the notes, the speech and language therapist had written about my daughter calling her nan a witch. it was explained, that the last time my daughter seen my mother, my mother told my daughter she was a witch and showed her potions. quite what that was about i dont know. but, anyway, it was noted that my daughter had taken what my mum said literaly and clearly was on her mind. my mum took that and all the notes i sent her as blaming her for my daughters condition!! arghhhhhhhhhh!! this is what she told people and i had people challenging me about it!! i cant win!
thanks for being understanding, you hit the nail on the head. thats very reassuring.

[Healing&Hopeful]

I'm glad it helped Darky... confused/frustrated, you bet ya!.... actually the cogs of my brain are still woorrring (or should that be erring).

If he put this at the beginning of his email, before he wrote the email.... then he was right and I was wrong before either of us spoke!!

So if that is the way it works, it doesn't matter what we say, how we say it or when we say it.... we're wrong because we were wrong at the very beginning.

I think this has possibly helped both of us 

[darky]

glad you feel it helps!! sometimes its so hard to put down just how we feel and the diabolical way we have been treated,but then like a flash someone does it for you!! its so hard to explain isnt it??? these people are so very clever that it just p!sses me off!! i reckon that half of how we feel is to somehow want to outsmart them, to back them in a corner where they cannot push the blame or wriggle out of something!!

still, yesterday i was watching day time tv. a chat show. there was a young woman on there who was clearly broken and shattered by her mother who accused her of trying to get off with her husband 3 years ago. the fact that her husband had sent this girl a text message asking her if she was better in bed than her mother, the fact her husband sat there and said nothing happened. the mother STILL was accusing her daughter of being lowest of the low. the chat show host threw the mother off the stage in the end as the mother was still inflicting her emotional abuse on her daughter. even when the audience was clearly shocked and shouting at her, that a mother could still be shouting abuse at her daughter and telling her she didnt love her, she still wouldnt listen!! the chat show host said the mother was insane!! i sat and cried when i saw that. the remarks comming from the mothers mouth, the dead, beaten look in her daughters eyes was all to familiar. that could have been me and my mother sat there.
at the end of the show they showed the aftermath, with the mother still protesting her daughter was evil!!! there are some people who will NEVER admit when they are wrong. blaming someone else makes it easier for them to divert the blame away from themselves, blaming themselves is guilt and they cant live with that. and the thing we find the hardest is, we can admit when we are wrong, so we cannot understand why someone else wouldnt, thats normal!!

[Marta]

the thing we find the hardest is, we can admit when we are wrong, so we cannot understand why someone else wouldnt, thats normal!!

Hi Darky, I know, I feel that way too. I am happy that we are us and not them.

I also get time and again to contront my abusers and make them want to see my point of view, or get someone they value, a spouse, friend, whoever who counts in their lives, to tell them how they are wrong. Last time I had the urge, I got excellent advice from Mudpuppy regarding breaking out of the triangle.

If you go to your abusers and ask them to see what they did to you, ask for justice, it would only put you back in your place. But if say if you filed a lawsuit, or wrote a book on your experiences, or cut your mom out of your life for what she did to you, you are not playing by her rules in making yourself heard.

To me Saddam epitomizes NPD. He still would not admit that he did anything wrong!

i

just cannot tollerate people presuming to know what im thinking or what my intentions are!! this is because for years and years my mother has done it, twisted things and made me look so bad when i know im not! it makes me kick myself and wish i never bothered as its like she has this blindness that only reads between the lines!! is this another n trait??

Yes, I feel that way too. Like they'd take our noblest thoughts, vulgarize them unbelivably, and throw them back at us and accuse us of these things and as small children we didn't know any better if it was really us or not. That is was the most toxic thing my mom and sis ever did to me.

[write]

there are some people who will NEVER admit when they are wrong.

that's because they don't see they are wrong.
And with NPD unless they undertake therapy with a really good psychiatrist- their own wounds and unmet needs are greatest.
Hard to believe when you're talking about raising a small child I know...

Have you ever seen that cartoon image of a cuckoo invading a nest, with a bigger head than the rest of the birds, making a noise, open-beaked for comfort and attention, detracting from the other babies?
I've never seen a cartoon of the cuckoo parents though- 'who made the cuckoo selfish?' a bestseller childrens' title?

Take care D.

PS I wish you'd change your name. Darky has sort-of racist connotations for me, I'm uncomfortable using it. What made you choose it?

[darky]

my nickname has been my nickname for years, it used to be dark angel and others shortened it to darky, so its stuck, its not ment racialy at all. actualy i am a blonde haired white girl!so it dont make sense really, but thats my nickname and has been for a very long time, no one else in 4 years has ever taken offense??!!!