Love of my life won't let go of his narcissistic ex-wife -- Advice? Validation?

[Hop guest]

Brother RedHawk,
Observe, if you will, the spontaneous and pure freedom of the perfect natural kingdom.

How the mighty bison run at each other and crash their heads together.
How the wonderful walrus heave onto the rocks and howl their love.

Observe how some species of pure-hearted animals regularly slash and bite and kick and tear each other to bits because quite a few of them don't want to share their mates.

There is a primacy to having a mate. An adult human animal, who wants a relationship that will become the most sacred fire that warms every other part of his life, will understand and respect his mate's need to not be threatened. (If she's of a monogamous species, that is.)

The gorgeous body of love can die from neglect, from a primal need being dismissed as "insecurity."

Go have a nice time, soar away on fluffy clouds.... You're not a monogamous animal. Your heart isn't giving Tejaspear primacy, and she is being true to her gorgeous desire for a commitment that goes beyond mating.

Good luck...glad you had a nice romance.
I truly don't mean this spitefully, but from all my 55 years I feel a prediction coming on:
One day you wil mature and look back and your heart will break all over again, that you couldn't be man enough to give her the security that you could have chosen to give.

"Forsaking all others" means just what it says.
And I've learned that from some wise ones on this board, among other places.

Best of luck,
Hopalong

[tejaspear]

Thank you for your beautiful post, Hopalong. I guess he does know the meaning of "forsaking all others" in that he has forsaken me, (and last year his best friend), for her.  He doesn't like to admit to himself he is still emotionally married to her since she was unfaithful and he can never trust her sexually again. They don't have much time together in person, and no sex, but shoot, that's how it was for the last years they lived together as well.

Thank you all so much for supporting me in what has been a heart-wrenching, but the only healthy, choice. I could have stayed with him, but it would have destroyed me. This I know without a doubt.

Hugs,
TP

[Healing&Hopeful]

Where would this end?  If I were to yield to this insecurity, who would I need to sacrifice next?  Where would it end?  Or, would it ever end?  Would I need to accept you as my one and only friend in life?
-=RedHawk

Redhawk.... I hope you do come back to see what is posted as I feel a lot of people would have something to say to you.

Where would this end?  You tell me.... where do you think it will end?

Insecurity and who to sacrifice next?  What's your insecurity that makes you go back?  What's your insecurity that means you can't move on to another fulfilling relationship?

Would you need to accept one and only friend in life?  No.... however you need to accept one and only "girl"friend/partner in life... and from the sounds of things, you are emotionally tied to two. (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Personally RedHawk, My opinion is that I don't feel Tej is threatened by your ex...  Maybe you should imagine how you would feel if the roles were reversed?  How you would feel if it was Tej and her ex having the same relationship you do with your ex?  I'm guessing that your first response to this will be, Oh, I would be fine with it... she can have whatever friends she wants, it wouldn't be a problem.... however maybe you can really think about how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

H&H   

[tejaspear]

You are right that I am not an insecure person in that way, H&H. And I wonder why he isn't asking instead, "I have given up my best friend for Ves. Now I have given up the love of my life for Ves. How many more will I have to give up -- until I have no one but Ves?"

[mum]

hey, Tejaspear, just checking in with the board after a while away....it's sometimes cool to come in at the end of  a thread... especially now, that this "man" in question chimed in.
Eveyone here has given you good advice, that comes from lots of shared experience,
so I can't really add anything profound that hasn't already been said.
You deserve more. Anyone does. Yes, the attachment to his ex is weird, and yes, she controls his life (and for a while, yours too).
One thing struck me, and that is that you may want to wait a bit to figure some things out before you get involved in another relationship. I speak from experience when I say that really becoming consious about WHY we made the choices we do is extremely important.  I realized that when I married my second narcissistic man rather quickly after divorcing the first.
Anyway, though, it seems you sense this, when you talk about the importance of feeling good alone. Right on.

The other thing is: and I'm sorry if this sounds disrespectful, but after that swan song from redwing, I'd think you would be thanking the ground you walk on that you are rid of him. OY! What a bunch of malarky. Honestly, I was laughing a bit. More crap to make him feel "It's not me, it's her". Okay, whatever. Let him go, let the hurt go, (after screaming it out of course...or whatever you do).  You're going to be just fine!!!!

[Moira]

Hiya Tej- I'm not meaning to judge but my gut reaction to Hawk's message is...wow...that is one angry dude. There is alot of anger and condescension in those honeyed words. His message is almost word for word like one my ex N left me a few months ago- I'm not labelling him just saying it is frighteningly familiar- even the intensity of language- and seeming sweetness. It made me feel uncomfortable reading that message. You are better off and healthier on your own. Moira

[tejaspear]

Thanks, Moira.

You are right of course. I never said anything about it to anyone before, even Red Hawk, but I can see how some of his N ex's "ways" have rubbed off on him. But of course that is only natural. I believe we all take on some of the characteristics of those we cherish and spend the most time with.

[Moira]

Hi again T.- I don't know about N by osmosis! That missive could easily- all too easily- have been penned with pride by a..... N. I really don't;t like the labelling thing too much but, if the shoe fits. That message was full of anger- maybe rage would be a more appropriate word?-, so disrespectful, sarcastic and patronizing. Abuse- any way you slice it. Besides, what healthy, well adjusted man is going to jump into a forum to see what other total strangers think or to see what the ex is saying about ...HIM!!!!...Hmmm....HIM....the operative word, n'est ce pas?! It all comes back to ...." it's all about...ME"!!!! Hee hee! Moira

[tejaspear]

Oh, well I sent him the link and invited him to look. Re the rage and anger, that could be because I told him I'm going to actively look for another now -- and also just natural defensiveness when he sees that he is not getting support for his contentions in this thread. Really he has not been angry toward me much at all -- ever.

I actually prefer to see him get angry over too much of the other I have seen in him -- which is acting out helplessless, cowardice, whimpering, etc. I want him to stand up for himself -- even if it's against me.

But it is clear that he is not anywhere ready to let go of her, and I have to deal with my own heartbreak in this. It is such a waste in the short-run. I can only hope that in the long-run he and I both will have been blessed by the time we have shared.

One thing I think he has not considered is what he is going to do when she betrays him again -- and judging from what I have been learning about narcissists in Vaknin's book, it is only a matter of time before she does something to fulfill her fantasy of him abandoning her again. When she betrays him again he will feel such a fool for trusting her as a friend and giving up me and others for her. I just hope he will not berate himself too much about it and just HEAL, goddammit...!!!!!!!!

Anyway, he's not letting go of her, and that means I have to let go of him. I'm doing that very actively, and that pisses him off I think. He thinks I'm being unreasonable not to let him keep me and her both. *I* am the bad guy, and she is totally innocent as is he. That's how he sees it. The day she betrays him again, that day he will maybe see straight. It's all rather tragic and sad.

At least I have a STRONG new year's resolution: NO MORE MEN THAT TELL ME THEY ARE KEEPING THEIR EXES...!!!!!!!!!!!

[tejaspear]

Now I am going through RAGE about this. He BETRAYED me, dammit......!!!!!!!!  He promised me he would let go of her in his life if I ever needed that. He promised that to me before we started living together a month ago. But then when I asked him to do it he RENIGGED...!!!  All that month I had a FALSE sense of security with him.

I've been sending him some very enraged emails today. Feels good (if you can feel good during anything like this). I think I really needed to let it out.

[Hopalong]

You can't be saintly 24/7, Teja.
It is normal to be angry when you're hurt.

Probably does no good to aim it at him though.

Do you have any other person, like a T, you can go to for a good talk regularly until you're past the first grieving?

People do disappoint each other. People do break promises. People sometimes just can't give us what we want them to.

Hard as hell to face when it's someone you had big dreams about.

Hold onto yourself. You can't hold onto him, just have to let the grief do its work and heal you.

Hang on,

Hopalong

[Plucky]

hi Tej,
sometimes it's good to vent.  As long as you don't get too attached to your anger and the good feeling venting brings.  Don't forget the goal is letting go - not setting him straight or anything like that.  Above all, be long gone before she betrays him again and the shyte hits the fan.  You don't want to be there to pick up the pieces.  Do you?  You're not hoping for it, are you?  Because we know, in our heart of hearts, that this event would not change anything at all about you and him.  Nothing.
Plucky

[insomniac]

Tejaspear,

I'm so sorry that you're going through this.  I had a somewhat similar experience with an ex-boyfriend of mine.  In my particular situation, I was not threatened at all by his ex-wife.  What I was concerned about and what bothered me about it, was his choosing her over me.  He didn't in the end, but he didn't choose me either.  I was just a rebound relationship for him, although it seemed like he was the love of MY life.  As far as I could figure out what happened, he was a passive-aggressive narcissist.  He was in search of some "ideal love", but that actually involved his partner putting up with any abuse he gave her without complaint.

This guy's attitude is so similar to my ex's.  He loved feeling needed--the need to rescue.  I think it made him feel more like a man to be needed by a woman.  He felt like a bigger person by imagining himself full of so much love that he can carry on a relationship with 2 women at once.  It's not love, though.  It's selfishness and fear. He can believe himself to be so benevolent, but it doesn't make it true.  I really don't want to hurt your feelings, but this might help make things clear for you.  He could be possibly using the relationship with you to prove to his ex-wife how "wonderful" and "desirable" he is, and how big of a mistake she made to cheat on him.

I know it's so hard to let go, and so hard to believe this, but this guy is definately not the love of your life.  The love of your life would choose you above all others.  The love of your life would never put you second to anyone.

Kudos to you for being strong enough to leave him.  (I wasn't that strong.)  Better sooner than later--I know.  Do yourself a favor by not contacting him any more.  Be truly done with him.

[tejaspear]

Thanks y'all.

Yes, the rage has felt healthy. Without it, I fear I would dissolve into self-doubt.

I can't see a T anytime soon, but I feel I'll be all right as long as I can come out of this in one piece and believing in myself. It feels good to be able to say I don't DESERVE to be treated like that, and feel it and mean it. It feels good to feel self worth. My anger at him is like the parent in me raging in protection of my inner child.

It's funny how it really is a process. One day I will feel pretty darn good and the next like road kill, but mostly I feel I know I am doing pretty well. I feel like I am getting it out of my system, and the rage is/was an important part of that. (Not sure if I'm done with the rage  yet, but I think it has already peaked.) Now I am feeling ready for the calm and silence of acceptance much more.

Very interesting thing you said, Plucky! About being around when she betrays him again. It never occurred to me much that things might happen that way. It's all too complicated to think about somehow. I just feel like chances are that by the time he might ever "come around" I will already be in a committed relationship with someone else. (I hope so anyhow! I have spent most of my adult life alone and would really like to have a partner.)

Thanks so much for all your comments. It helps so much to have people to vent to that even have a clue of what I'm dealing with.  

Hugs,
TP

[tejaspear]

insomniac,

Thank you so much for your sharing and insights!!!!!!!!  It is really helping me even as I read it, and rings so true.

I remember times he would say, "Fuck you, [her name]. Someone else DOES want me." He explained that she always used to tell him, "No one else would have you."

And yes, yes, yes to all the other things you said. Thank you so much. It really does help!!!!!!!

Hugs!
TP