Emotional Games from N H

[Hopalong]

YES!!!YOU FIGHT FOR HER!!!!
IT IS THE MOST WORTH-IT THING YOU'LL EVER DO!

This anger will serve you, save her.
Showering with a six y/o?????? NOOOOOOOO!

Hopalong

[Marta]

This man is showering with our 6 year old daughter and sleeping with her.

Oh my god movinon. This is really, really terrible. I just don't have words to describe the horror I feel. I am sending you and your daughter all the best wishes in the world. Please collect as much evidence as you can of what is goign on. Take pics of them coming out of shower. Even hire a private detective if you have to!

You say that this is yoru first post. Please start your own thread and talk about your situation. THere are others on this board who've been in your situation adn tehy can share their experiences with you. There is OR who just got a court injunction (or is about to?) to get only supervised visists with her daughter ferom her N ex.

Take care. Real good car eof yourself.

Love, Marta

[Brigid]

Movin on,

Wow, this sound just like my ex-husband to be.  This is my first post.  I have been doing research all day on NPD and I am trying to do a collaborative divorce process with him.

I would strongly recommend you do not try to do a collaborative divorce with this man.  This would not be money well saved.  N's are liars and if you do not have your own good attorney fighting for you, you will be screwed.  Also, for the sake of your daughter, you need good counsel.  Collaborative divorces are only for people who can work well together and can trust one another--I don't think you have either with your h.

I would agree that you should start your own post and you will get some good responses.

Brigid

[mum]

Surrounded: So much of what you write brings back (horrible) memories for me. You are tapping into your power. We will be part of that power. Sending you love, light and strength.

Movinon: I echo what Brigid said. Collaborative divorce is for people who get along at least a little. Like my husband and his ex. They did so well with that.

But your H sounds like a sociopath at the least. "Collaboration" is the LAST thing you can do with him. Get an absolute shark of a lawyer with the meanest reputation in town. Banish any feelings of pity or guilt over this.
I wish I had hired a shark (but I felt "sorry" for the guy who subsequently has done everything in his power to punish me and screw up my life).Take no prisoners. As hard as it seems when he acts "hurt" DO NOT get sucked in. This is YOUR life. This is your DAUGHTER'S life!

[movinon]

Thanks for the feedback Mum, Hopalong, Brigid and Marta.  I'm not sure how to do a post.  I think maybe this is it.  I'm still feeling a bit angry (and scared) today.  Have no fear though, I'm willing to walk through it straight into the fight.  I have a bucketload of support and spent the weekend with some friends who validated my position.  I was told by my sponsor, who is also a therapist, that he is a sociopath.  I am waiting on a call from my lawyer today.  When I spoke to her after my last post, she didn't seem too enthused about me wanting to fight him.  I agree that I cannot do a collaborative divorce with this person.  My goal is to get a pshyc. evaluation done.  I have no fears about that on my end, and if he doesn't crucify himself, my 18-year old daughter and family and friends can attest to his use of violence, control, and manipulation when we were together.  We've also seen a number of therapists as a couple (he's NEVER seen one individually) although I have which is aparently pretty typical of one spouse (usually the wife) trying to fix the marriage alone.  I'm really worried about the money it will take to do this.  He make 4 times what I make (I'm a teacher).  I heard someone say that a friend of hers lost her battle because she ran out of money before her husband.

This man has ADMITTED to raping me and hitting me.  He says that becuase I hit him back, it was just a "passionate" relationship and I gave just as good as I got.  He has raged and stopped me from leaving the room, the house, or the car by blocking the door or holding me down.  He has walked around the house in front of the children with a shotgun threatening to shoot himself.  His defense is that he has been in recovery and is sponsoring other men.  He is also in an organization as a leader in training doing men's emotional support work.  It makes me sick to see these men come up to him in droves and give him big adoring, loving hugs.  His defense is also that he hasn't done any of this since I moved out (no duh!)

To Marta:  We are not living together so I can not take pictures, but both of our lawyers know and my daughter tells me.  Oh yeah, his lawyer is in a men's support circle with him.  Sounds like conflict of interest doesn't it?

[Brigid]

movinon,
Click the bar at the top that says "new topic" and that will start a new thread. 

I'm glad to hear you're not going the collaborative route.  Way too dangerous in your situation.

Brigid

[Surrounded]

I saw movinon post, so that is good.  I know she got some good advice, as I always get from everyone!  Thanks again.
So......
What is up with these nutjobs?  These N husbands.  Any N for that matter!  Amazing.

Hey, just a new question today.  My H is now out of the blue, writing me "love notes" and leaving them around for me to find when he leaves the house for "work". 

He hasn't done this ever to speak of, so I am second-guessing myself about his motives.  He has left 3 this last week.  The first 2...just I love you.  xoxox type stuff.

Today, he puts IN my N families of origin book I am reading with my bookmark he writes all this crap about how much I have always helped HIM!!  And thanks for all I do for him and the kids.  Life gets hard for HIM and he knows he makes it through because of my support and compassion.  I am HIS source of strength.    We are soulmates!  He is honored to think of me with HIM.  And oh yeah, ONE sentence about trying to be there for ME like I have always been for him.

Oh, and always ends with....."yours forever"---------is that a threat?  blech!

He thinks I am totally struggling with my family-of-origin because I am not ready or able to tell him what a HUGE N I think he is.   Gotta get more of MY crap together first.  (Ducks in a row?)

 He tells me "he misses me".  When he is not moping around the house because I am not his wind-up clapping monkey anymore.  Who wouldn't miss someone who you could just walk all over without any resistance? 

What is up with these letters?  Should I give him ANY benefit of the doubt?  Of course, as programmed, I cry at first, and then I get MAD!  I am thinking because I see through it now, but I still have this awful guilt.....for what, I don't know.  I just do.

Could he really be trying to understand?  Or is he just pulling out all the stops to control, play mind games, mess with me, ETC!!!!

[mudpuppy]

Surrounded,

Should I give him ANY benefit of the doubt?

No.

Could he really be trying to understand?

No.

Or is he just pulling out all the stops to control, play mind games, mess with me, ETC!!!!

That would be a yes.

When they can't get their way with bullying they ape what real people do who actually love each other. Unfortunately you married an ape.

mud

[movinon]

Surrounded,

This too sounds familiar (and is very typical).  As I mentioned in a previous post, I "took my N back" TWICE.  Both times he said he would go to a counselor that we AGREED upon. (We had been to too many that he could push around with his agressiveness) I was adamant to find someone who had experience with domestic/sexual abuse.  

Short things short, I kept going to my women's group, he went to one session and quit.  The second time we were going to "couple's" counseling and he would still do things on the side that indicated he in no wasy wanted to be part of a partnership.  I also got the realization in that last session that he really did abuse my son and it wasn't just a tap.  

The last time he showed up outside my bedroom window (after 3 weeks of no-contact) begging to talk for just 10 minutes.  I caved and let him in and it was 2 1/2 hours of drama (while my kids took care of themselves as usual), him begging, and saying he would do ANYTHING (which he never did).  Although I let him in, I stood my ground in saying NO.  One thing I noticed during these 2 hours, was how many times he said, "I'm a good man!"  I had never said that night that he wasn't.

 It was all about his abandonment issues.  In examining our relationship, there were so many things that centered around me "abandoning" him.  He was scared to death of it and the closer I got to leaving, the more he would pull out the stops, so to speak.  A healthy adult knows they cannot be abandoned.

These N's are slick and knowing when to slide in under the radar - to hit when others are vulnerable.  And I want to validate that making a decision to change such a huge pattern to take care of yourself is a hugely vulnerable thing to do.  He's losing his hold on you and he's scared.  A healthy person wants someone who can think for themselves and have good boundaries.

My N has always used my family of origin stuff to say, "Look, she's the one who's messed up."  His good persona has come back to bite me many times.  I am seeking the strength not to be drawn in again.

What does your "wise woman" say about what he's proposing?  Has he made similar (although less) promises to change?  Do you think he can?  What if he can't?  Are you willing to stay in the manipulation and control?  It's YOUR choice.  YOu get to decide.

I know that you will take care of yourself.  Be gentle with yourself if you don't do it perfectly and keep getting validation and support.

Movinon

[Hopalong]

Hey Surrounded,
The thing is, he MIGHT be IN THAT MOMENT of writing you love notes be washing around in a syrupy wave of sentiment. In other words, he might IN THAT MOMENT be experiencing his version of sincerity.

But he's an N. And an abuser. And what this ultimately means to you and your life is to face the sad fact that these gestures, "sweet" as they seem, don't have any meaning.

They are just words. It is his actions, over time, and how he has made you feel, over time, that are the reality.

I think you can judge what the reality is. Don't let "notes" or "words of love" confuse you.

Have you FELT loved? Supported? Respected? Encouraged? Etc, etc? Answer those questions, listen to your inner self. He may himself honestly think he's having real lasting feelings when he does this little win-you-back campaign. Unfortunately, Ns are incapable of appreciating their own limits.

You need to keep Surrounding Yourself -- with strength, self-love and determination that you deserve a real life, real freedom, not too-little-too-late manipulative "note bombs."

Don't fall for it. I think these are the empty gestures of a cruel campaign. He's just testing, I believe, to see if the change in you that he can sense, is real.

Show him it is. Don't fall apart because he came up with some treacly sentiments.

Just my opinion, but I think you've been through enough already.

Hopalong

[Moira]

Hi Surrounded and all! Great thread. all " love" declarations, gestures, gifts, promises and seeming changed behavour- is nothing but theatre arts. All bullshit designed soley to draw you back into their web of abuse and destruction. My ex N was a master actor- would have a prosperous career in Hollywood!- always brief, seeming sincere honemoon periods, and feigned " passion" following angry episodes, withdrawal on my part, threat of abandonment, seperation  etc.  NEVER lasted or was in any way real nor did he ever even appear to understand my feelings- inconsequential to him. Be strong. Keep posting. Such excellent folks here, great body of knowledge and endless, much needed support! Hugs, Moira