X not attempting to see/contact daughter

[movinon]

Hi all,

My stbxh has not tried to contact or see his 6yo daughter in nearly 2 weeks.  Since I left him at the end of '04, he has had her every week, twice a week overnights.

I am very happy about this development for both my daughter and I feel sad for her.  She doesn't bring it up and when I do she says she gets scared to talk about it (I think she means sad and confused).  There is still nothing legal in place about visitation (TRO & custody hearing in 3 weeks).

My question is - Will this look bad for him at the hearing?   

Movinon

[HeathMcFar]

Hi Movinon.  Your stbx's lack of visitation with your daughter, if you can prove it (no "he said - she said" allowed in court), could look very bad for him to a judge. 

Go to "http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tracker.php" and read about the free "time tracker" software you can use to track the time both you and he spend with her.  I haven't used it myself, but I've heard that many family judges take these types of reports quite seriously.

[movinon]

Thanks Heath!

I have been tracking everything - including my e-mails where I told him he could call her anytime and I would let HER answer if I saw it was him.  I've also been documenting what the daycare is saying about him not showing up.

Guess I'm just trying to think like him and prepare for the worst.

Movinon

[Hopalong]

(That is just amazing, Heath. What people on this board can do!)

I think you're doing a champ job, MO, and I think it's really, really going to be okay.
You could even have daycare people sign a note that records their statements that he didn't turn up?

Looking pretty dim for him, I think.

(((MovinOn)))

Hops

[movinon]

Thanks Hops

I think I will have the daycare people do that.

I was thinking it will look pretty bad for him - GOOD

Movinon

[HeathMcFar]

One of the best pieces of evidence you can take to custody/family court is a letter written and signed by your child's daycare.  They are considered an unbiased third party and extremely reliable when it comes to putting your child's best interests first.  I do know that for a fact based on personal experience (can't go into the details).

And the emails and phone access are great too.  He's probably going to say that you're denying him visitation, and all contact for that matter, and you can prove him wrong.  If it gets really ugly in court, you can subpoena your own phone records to prove that he did NOT call in the first place!

I'm sorry you're having to try to think like him, but you have to when the other parent of your child is a narcissist.  You have to stay on your toes.  And if your sanity can take it, continue to track your and his parenting time, the emails, the phone calls, etc, until your daughter is grown... because he's going to keep trying crap as long as you two are legally responsible for her.  He can't help it; it's in his nature.

-Heather

[Sela]

I don't have any helpful info to add but I am so glad others have done so and hope it all helps.

Just wanted you to know that I'm cheering for you in the background and keeping you in my prayers.

(((((((Movinon)))))))

Sela

[mum]

Hi, Movinon:
re: "timetracker software":
What are you trying to track? How many minutes he is NOT seeing his daughter that you WANT him to see her?
What is your intention?

Timetracker software will not do anything different than you will do if you keep track of when he is or is not seeing your daughter. IF you want him to step up to the plate and see her MORE, and you want to count every moment of everyday that she "misses" precious time with him...then this minute by minute system may be what you want, but I would check with a lawyer first. But I think you should know, it is primarily sold to non custodial parents who are trying to prove their time with their children is being sabotaged by the custodial parent.
 
I found out about it when investigating something else regarding custody. Frankly, the web site scared the heck out of me (children as possessions and minutes of time spent with them be metered out.) It is being touted as extrememly helpful for non custodial parents who believe they need moment to moment proof of NOT getting their (already agreed upon) legal time with their children.  Father's Rights Initiative people endorse this product, from what I saw and personally, I shy away from supporting any product remotely connected with that largely political organization (which, sadly, is well funded and largely anti-mother's rights). But take my opinion with a large grain of salt: I am a mother, fighting for the rights of my children who have an N for a dad!!!

Back to your intention: Do you want him to see her MORE? How will you use the information about him NOT seeing her?
I think if you appreciate his lack of involvement as sad for her, but ultimately in her best interest, you should be careful how it's presented....make sure you present it in a way that matches your intention for your daughter.

For another perspective on custody, check out www.thelizlibrary.org
I wouldn't spend too much time there, as I used to, but it was too focused on what goes wrong, IMO, and focusing on what you DON"T want, is hardly the way to create what you DO want...
So, what do you want (again, back to that!)
Best of luck.

[HeathMcFar]

Whoa, mum, calm down.  I suggested the "free" time tracking software because no one going through a divorce has money for anything else.  I suggested the software, itself, because it follows a nice, logical, linear pattern that judges prefer to review over sobbing "he said - she said" accusations.  And finally, I suggested it because a female co-worker of mine is going through a divorce and attempting to gain full custody of her children because their father is a narcissist and spends as little time as possible with his own kids; but he's going for joint custody to get out of paying child support (he told her this himself - what a gem!).  My friend's lawyer told her to track all time spent with the children, on both sides, because this will be extremely useful to the judge in determining custody.

So it isn't just for us evil non-custodial parents who are trying to rip their children out of the arms of saints.  Good mommies and daddies who actually love and respect their children can use it too.

-Heather

[movinon]

Heather -

Yes, I will get the daycare workers to sign a statement - thank you!  And I like the idea about the phone records.

Sela and Bean - thanks for your support!

Mum - Yes, my intention is to just have some kind of record (journal) that says he never bothered to see her or call.

IF you want him to step up to the plate and see her MORE,

- I get that I have NO CONTROL over what he does and wishing for it will drive me crazy.  I guess my intention on using this info. is basically as defense when he says I'm not allowing him to see her and as a testiment to his "unfitness".  I will strategize that with my lawyer.

Movinon

[write]

seems to me like you have two issues here:

you wanting your daughter to have a father in her life;

you wanting him out of your life.

That's a lot of difficult conflicting emotions to work through, especially if you're seeing him around with his new friend.

I get that I have NO CONTROL over what he does and wishing for it will drive me crazy

If he's an out and out psycopath he will have no respect or compliance with rules or the law. That's the extreme end of the spectrum and I guess most people who're like that spend time in prison before too long.

Some narcissistic people see legal boundaries and won't break the law ( I know my ex wouldn't defy a court order and compromise himself ) so it could be a way for you to control things to some extent.

But some narcissists ( and non-narcissists ) thrive on the attention too of going in and out of Court and acting out in public.

I haven't read much of this but I agree with what I've seen so far http://www.divorce-without-war.com/

PS.
I will also add there is some really bad advice on the internet about the topic 'divorcing a narcissist', especially someone prone to violence. Any advice which tells you some simple behaviour of your own can control or change the N's behaviour ( especially by losing your cool or getting abusive or violent yourself ) is more likely to make you look bad or could be dangerous.

During my marriage if I ever lost my temper with my husband ( by which I mean uncontrolled shouting and anger outburt- which was surprisingly rare given the provocation ) he would react by instantaneously and uncontrollably hitting out/ throwing something. I'm not even sure it was about N, he just couldn't handle my aggression directed at him. I was hit several times over the years before I worked it out, and he went to therapy.

I have found that there is no simple solution to any of this- and my way of dealing was loads of therapy myself. Find what's healthy and stick to it like a broken record. As I got healthier a lot of it has changed the whole family dynamics and we can all communicate better than ever despite the Nism. I didn't want to leave one unhealthy life behind and move onto another- I knew I had to work out my place in all this, why I was choosing N partners, end the relationship with kindness and forgiveness I suppose. But I was angry, confused, bitter. And jumped right into a new relationship with a man who was totally pathological- worse than my ex! I couldn't do it myself, I needed therapy.

PPS. the other factor is time- I sometimes think there should be a 'pre-divorce' where people work their emotions out and start to heal before they go into a situation where their feelings are going to affect important decision-making. It's definitely been a lot easier for us to remain married for the first two years of our separation and work out the problems together as a family. When we do divorce it will be a mutual decision based on what is best for our son and ourselves, and it won't involve lawyers 'taking sides' and encouraging anything underhand or unpleasant.

[mum]

Heather:

Whoa, mum, calm down.

Why?

And finally, I suggested it because a female co-worker of mine is going through a divorce and attempting to gain full custody of her children because their father is a narcissist and spends as little time as possible with his own kids; but he's going for joint custody to get out of paying child support (he told her this himself - what a gem!).

I am sorry for your friend's trouble. I hope this is helpful to her. I would make another choice based on what I know. It's that simple.

it follows a nice, logical, linear pattern that judges prefer to review over sobbing "he said - she said" accusations.

A neatly filled in calendar is perfectly acceptable, free and can be presented without sobbing if one chooses to do so. Technological "he said, she said" is very possible as well, as is sobbing with it's presentation.  My ex lied incesently over his "version of time" ( a true quote). This leads me to the conclusion that anybody can enter anything they choose into the program, just as they can on a calendar. Lying is always a possibility, so both parents can use the same program with different "results".

So it isn't just for us evil non-custodial parents who are trying to rip their children out of the arms of saints.  Good mommies and daddies who actually love and respect their children can use it too.

It sounds like you have taken this personally. I'm sorry if that's the case. I certainly have no opinion of you that even remotely resembles your description.

Movinon: I certainly hope you took my words

with a large grain of salt

as I recommended.