Our responsibility

[reallyME]

You know, being a follower of Jesus, I've been taught to put others before myself.  I also read in the Bible, however "Love your neighbor AS YOURSELF.  So, as I've been working toward breaking my own codependency and DE-pendency with people, as well as counseling others as I overcame those things, I have come to realize that my only responsibility is to myself.  It's not that I don't care about others, but in the end, I have to live with ME, when those others don't reciprocate or aren't there.

I read something interesting from the BeyondTheEcho group today.  I want to share:

One day, I went down a long road...there was a hole..I didn't see  it..I fell
in it...it was not my fault..

The next day, I went down the same road... I saw the hole...I  fell in it
...it still wasn't my fault..

Then the next day came and I went down the same road again...I  saw the hole,
I fell in it even though I didn't want to..it was a  habit...

Then the very next day, I went down the road again...I remembered  that there
was a hole there...I saw it..and chose to walk around it and not be  drawn
into it...

[seasons]

Thanks for sharing, that was nice and so true.
I'm doing better, but I've let my N overcome me and fill me with such anger, I wonder if I'll be punished. Does anyone ever feel that way?

[pennyplant]

Yes, I have felt that if I stand up for myself with one person in particular I will be "punished".  I know her to be a vindictive person and she has in the past done things to undermine me.  On the other hand, since I know this about her, I can see how things are likely to play out and am now using this as a chance to stand up for myself in a smart way.  I try to think it out ahead of time instead of being blindsided.  I try to set things up in my favor.  Don't know if it's working yet as I just started trying this.  By "working" I mean that I hope eventually she will just leave me alone as she will finally realize I am on to her and will not let her intimidate me or manipulate me any more.

Of course, in the long run I realize that control, manipulation and vindictiveness are survival mechanisms for her and are long-standing habits.  Avoiding her whenever possible will always have to be a big part of it.

I definitely hate that feeling of dread thinking that I will have to "pay" for standing up for myself.  But it won't stop me anymore from standing up for myself anyway.

PP

[reallyME]

seasons: Thanks for sharing, that was nice and so true.
I'm doing better, but I've let my N overcome me and fill me with such anger, I wonder if I'll be punished. Does anyone ever feel that way?

Punished by whom?

I don't fear Jodi at all, because she is from the internet primarily, although I did spend 6 weeks with her and had a couple other visits in the the past...I'm able to just not speak to her and, unless she needs something from me to boost her ego for her "ministry" or the guilt of having "ditched" me as her "lil friend" eats away at her enough, I don't usually hear from her anymore.

The only way she had to punish me, was through launching false accusations against me, pursuing legal action based on those, having her husband threaten to come here and "deal with" me and things like that.  To her husband's threat I responded, "Is that a threat, Bill?  You didn't intimidate me at your house and you don't scare me now either, so if you choose, come on over and you will be met by a nice police officer."  Bill never showed up, and later, once Jodi decided she "needed" me again to soothe her guilt and also as a link to one of my friends she "needed" for n-supply, Bill told me "no hard feelings" for anything that happened in the past.  Bill is an Echo...Jodi tells HIM what to do, and if she gets upset, he takes her shopping for new pairs of shoes, donuts, candles, whatever will make Jodi smile once again and not be so bitchy to everyone.  The name of the game in that ministry house was "keep the QUEEN CONTENT AND HAPPY AT ALL TIMES!"  The main problem was, I wasn't playin and I was clearly screamin, "THE EMPORER HAS NO CLOTHES!" like I have done all my life, even in my own dysfunctional family.

~ReallyME

[Hopalong]

Really,

The name of the game in that ministry house was "keep the QUEEN CONTENT AND HAPPY AT ALL TIMES!" 

Boy can I relate to that.

Hops

[moonlight52]

Hi All I thought most of my problems were with my n dad because of physical abuse. But can anyone tell me if hearing all the time growing up by n dad "do not upset your mother"over and over was coming from her?
moon

[pennyplant]

Hi Moon,

Hi All I thought most of my problems were with my n dad because of physical abuse. But can anyone tell me if hearing all the time growing up by n dad "do not upset your mother"over and over was coming from her?
moon

How interesting.  I wonder if this was his interpretation of some "behind the scenes" conversations the two of them were having.  For example, maybe she expressed that he was being too hard on you, or maybe she was even more indirect and said she was worried about you.  Hoping that HE would realize he was the source of the problems and would then start to behave.  He being N, might not accept that he was causing any problems and turned it around on you--you causing your mother to worry.  Even though it would be you in distress because of abuse, he may have been redirecting any possible blame onto you worrying your mother and onto your mother for wanting him to stop abusing you.  Just using my imagination here.  It has sounded so far like your mother tried to show you love when she could.  My impression of her is a meek woman--am I reading too much into previous posts?  It just seems that he shouldn't have been speaking for her so maybe he had an agenda for using that phrase all the time.  Does he always speak for the others in the family?  His interpretation of what others think or say would be suspect imo.

My gut tells me, that if she was upset it would be because he was abusing you.   Not because of you doing things.  Can you share more about your mother?

Pennyplant

[moonlight52]

PP Your insight is amazing and I do thank you.My Mom did try to show love. She was afraid of n dad but still always adored him.She could not protect us also their relationship was far more important than the funny little people running around the house getting in the way.N DAD BLAMED KIDS FOR EVERYTHING. Mom wanted n dad to stop hurting us but just could not stop him. YES  n dad spoke for everyone in the house.Pennyp. I wonder is this a grand example of you really helping me figure this out and how this board works at the same time .I guess I am just to close to the feelings that it makes it hard to understand by myself.           PP THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!         
Moon

[pennyplant]

Dear Moon,

Fortunately, or unfortunately, over the years I have "collected" a lot of really unbalanced people who do things that make such an impression on me that when I run into something similar, even years later, it reminds me of the previous experience.  It seems like a comparison can be made sometimes.  For example, I used to work for someone who showed almost every characteristic of N.  She would often express an opinion or criticism saying that her HUSBAND wondered why such and such was going on in our office.  As if he were our boss and not her!  It was so odd to me at the time and we (my co-worker and I) often thought she was putting her own opinion into his mouth or that it might have been something he said as part of a biased conversation with her about "problems" she was having with us at work.  Something that she took out of context to try and control us with.  Why would he care if we were taking our 15 minutes breaks, for example???

All the things people say here help me too, with things that I just can't puzzle out all by myself.  It's great to have access to all these experiences and points of view.

N DAD BLAMED KIDS FOR EVERYTHING.

Yeah, I grew up with parents who wished they hadn't had kids.  They were just bored and burdened with us.  I believe my father changed his mind about that before he died.  He finally seemed grateful to have me in his life.  At least he lived long enough to BEGIN to realize what it was all about.  He may have had Asperger's.  I read somewhere on-line that it is often mistaken for narcissism but that Asperger's people have empathy.  They want to change but do not know how.  That rings true for me with my father.  He was pretty honest and responsible about his failings.

Moon, I am glad that so many things are coming together for you.  It is hard on the way to healing, but it is happening and that is just great  .  PP

[moonlight52]

Hiya PP AND HOPS,SEASONS,REALLYME,   I have had one heck of a week some heavy duty therapy .Well yes I am better lets say lots of nasty barriers I kept hidden from self have been broken thur.It's sort of
like getting your teeth cleaned at the denist, all that scraping and poking and rinsing and then your done for now.Then you go again if you got the guts.I do not like to go to the dentist or for therapy .Do I want healthy teeth and mind yes.
So it goes. I CAN REPORT TEETH ARE OK. I AM A WORKING ON IT!  It's not easy but nothing worthwhile ever is.I respect the light within you.
Moonlight

[Hopalong]

Moon ..
You are brave and persistent.

I respect the light in YOU.

Hops

[pennyplant]

The main problem was, I wasn't playin and I was clearly screamin, "THE EMPORER HAS NO CLOTHES!" like I have done all my life, even in my own dysfunctional family.

~ReallyME

Hi ReallyME,

Do you ever feel that it takes a toll on you to be the one to say it like it is?  I mean, I have often been honest even when it hurts, and a lot of people truly can't bear the truth because it does hurt sometimes.  They can be almost vicious in response.  I know that it hasn't stopped you from doing what is right, but do you notice an effect on yourself afterwards, like needing to hole up for awhile or re-group?  For me, sometimes I don't want to be the responsible one because it is so much work.  It is hard on me.  I still believe honesty and the truth are best in the long run.  But since others don't seem to share my belief, I do wonder what they are learning from me if anything.  I also think it is part of why I have lost people over the years.  I suppose I don't want those people in my life if everything has to be dishonest to keep them around.  But for me it is complicated--a two-edged sword.

Pennyplant