Reciprocity or Backwards Boundaries

[Jona]

I guess it is a matter of opinion about the man paying.  I am an old fashioned woman and I wouldn't want a man who thought I was taking advantage of him by not paying.  This doesn't mean that I wouldn't pay occassionally after the relationship was established.

I can't believe my luck.  Although my husband does like the men's action films with shoot-em-up, huge explosions, and car crashes, he also likes chick flicks.  Right now his favorite movie is "Love Actually".  I think he has watched it at least six times in the last year.  HeeHee.

Back to on-line dating.  I once received a call from a man who went on and on about older women and how they were too independant and just wouldn't committ.  I couldn't believe it.  I felt like he was conducting a job interview.  He kept asking,"Can you committ?"  I kept saying, "Not right now.  I haven't even met you."  I don't know what his problem was but I bet there was a reason women wouldn't give him a commitment.

[Brigid]

Hops,
Lots of good advice here.  I met my bf through an on-line dating service, so I am testament to its value if you are smart about it.  Jona pretty much has the list of do's and don'ts the same way I did.  It gave me the opportunity to date a wide variety of men (although as you get more proficient with it, I found you weed them out faster and go on less dates), see a broad spectrum of personality types and determine what was really important in a potential partner.  I did insist on their paying in the beginning (and most of them didn't go beyond one date), but if the relationship lasted for awhile, I began to pay periodically. 

Dating at our age, with perhaps teen-age and young adult children in the picture (my bf and I have six of them between the ages of 16 and 23), aging parents, perhaps grandchildren, retirement looming, etc., creates many challenges that we would not have had in our 20's and 30's.  Rather than talking about whether or not you want to have children, career goals, buying a home, saving for educations and retirement; it becomes about when do you think you can retire and where would you like to be living when that happens, is there enough money to support us as we age and need more medical intervention, how do we protect our individual children upon our deaths if we were to get married, and would you love my children and grandchildren as your own.  Both my bf and I love our children very much and would like to be able to be close to them geographically, but know this won't always be possible or practical with so many to consider.  We also value our independence from them and being able to not be reliant on their help or financial assistance as we age.

With all that in mind, if the chemistry is there, the next thing needs to be flexability and the ability to compromise.  We all have accumulated a fair amount of baggage by now and being able to work with that (or not) is the determining factor as to whether the relationship can have legs.  I do not believe that we should be the ones doing all the compromising either.  It must be a two-way street with a willingness by both parties to meet half-way.  You also must be willing to walk away if you reach an impasse on any totally objectionable habit.  No, they will not change unless they want to and don't ever plan on that happening.

I'm not sure if I answered your original question, but maybe there is something there that you can use.

Hugs,

Brigid

[Hopalong]

Okay, here's the deal.
As soon as I have gotten a job, as that will take away the last dregs of "desperate"--I'm going to go for another round of online dating. I have done it in the past, and you have all reminded me of the safety and common sense points. I also found it a pleasant way to reconnect and renew my faith in people...even when there was no chemistry to proceed further with someone. I met a lot of mostly very nice men for coffee and interesting talk.

One difference this time: you guys are coming with me, did I mention that? I'll rent a nice van and we'll get a big table. Brig, Jona, H&H, Penny, Mum, Bean...y'all bring your fellas too, since they can help Storm and me quiz them (btw, Storm, we'll make it a double date, and we can swap fellas halfway through just to be efficient, double our chances...).

So whatever poor sap has agreed to meet me for a cuppa will find himself in a crowd of wise ones!

Thank you all so much for so much common sense and encouragement. It's especially heartening to hear from women well past their 30s who have had good sense and created their own good luck in the love department.

I will look forward to it!

Hugs,
Hops

[Healing&Hopeful]

Polishing up the spotlight ready.... cannot quiz without a decent spotlight to put them under 

[Gail]

Hi Hopalong,

I haven't been posting much lately, but yours really caught my eye because of the concept of reciprocity.  I've been dating wonderful bf for over 5 months now, and that's what we had right from the start.  We exchanged a few e-mails before we met, and he was as interested in asking me questions as he was in answering mine.  We both commented on what the other one wrote about.  Right away, I felt that elusive reciprocity that you are talking about.  When we have a conversation, we both show interest in the other's opinions and interests.  We take turns picking out the movies we watch.  I put up with the action ones he likes and he endures an occasional chick flick with grace.  He's stayed with me when I've been sick (really sick) without a complaint.  And I try to show him how much he means to me with my words and actions.

If I need to vent, he listens and tells me it's good to get things off my chest instead of negating my feelings.  (Not about him, but about xH who at times drives me crazy.)    He's not perfect, but if he does something that really bugs me, I don't feel afraid to tell him.  He's apologized when it was warranted, without making excuses.  He's understanding about my obligations to my children, not requiring me to focus only on him.

I know he is a good man.  He was married to the same woman for 30 years (she died several years ago), and speaks of her with great respect and love.  His co-workers like him, he has had very stable employment, and is financially responsible. 

I find that I worry (you know that old guilt we suffer with) that I'm not giving enough back in return!  What a wonderful dilemma!

I feel so blessed to have found this kind of love at 50.  It's worth saying no to the ones who don't measure up.  How thankful I ended the relationship with former N boyfriend of 2 years, although I thought it would kill me to do so.  There never was that reciprocity that I have now. 

God forbid, if something ever happened to wonderful bf, I could never put up with mistreatment again, now that I know what's it like to be treated well. 

So, stick to your boundaries and require reciprocity!

Gail

[Hopalong]

Gail, I'm SO glad you appeared!
That is such a heartening, encouraging, inspiring story!

As several have been.

I have a feeling I'll be accompanied by a crowd of crones (hey, that's a compliment, no matter what age you are) when I venture out again.

Your story truly makes me happy and it's a dead-on description of reciprocity. Thank you thank you!

I think it may be obvious to people with better "What's Happening Meters"--but for those of us raised by Ns, with boundaries that are all mushy and an ingrown capacity to endure neglect, mixed messages, see red flags as a pretty color...that's just a wonderful example of what's healthy and what is RECIPROCITY.

Major lesson for me, and though I do wish I'd learned it decades ago, I think I'm getting it now.

Thanks again, Gail!

Hops

[Brigid]

Red is my favorite color.

Bean, me too.  That must be why I have been so attracted to them all these years.  I am trying to prefer white flags (only as a sign of peace and tranquility--not that I'm giving up) these days and leave red to the color on my lips or toenails.

Brigid

[ANewSheriff]

Hopalong:  "Anybody else have a thought on "backward boundaries" or setting an expectation of reciprocity? (Not a demand for it, you can't do that...but just being clear within yourself that if someone isn't showing signs of genuine interest or enthusiasm, you don't turn yourself into a pretzel trying to persuade them of your value. You take your dignity and go home to enjoy your own company or look for another date who would value you.)"

ANewSheriff:  I made the decision this year to be more alert, aware, and on guard of relationships that are terribly lopsided.  One of the awarenesses I came to over the years wass how fuzzy and/or flexible my personal boundaries were.  We do not want to be hardened and resistant to change, yet in my opinion healthy boundaries do not move (at least, they do not move much).

Moving boundaries for the well-being of others often requires an unhealthy sacrifice of self for the individual doing the moving.  If we move it a little once, why not move it a little again?  And, then why not again after that?  It is a slow erosion which, in time,  leads to a catastrophic, gaping hole.

I had a therapist many years ago who used to warn me, "Make sure you are not shopping in an empty market."  I think back on her words from time to time.  What she was trying to relate to me was that you can go emotionally and spiritually broke in relationships that offer you nothing in return.  Giving and serving makes a life full and worthwhile.  Sacrificing to the point of bankruptcy is the sign that something is terribly wrong.