Young Narcissists

[Hopalong]

Thanks Mum, Really, Marissa...(and y'all above...Bean, Storm, Aspau, Mum, Teartracks)
She's 25, so post-adolescent. (But she's always been "young for her years.") She has been BEYOND cranky with me at times, but it's interesting, when I gave her her graduation trip it did seem to open her mind up. And since she got back, she's told me she thinks she's very very irritable. Owning her behavior instead of making it be about me. And other people do say extremely positive things to me about her.

She unloaded on me by email recently and said some mean things, and for once I wrote back and told her exactly how it made me feel. And by the time I saw her again she was much more considerate. (At one point I thought uh-oh, this is just N-niceness because she can tell I'm fed up...you know, the N turns on the niceness when supply is threatened?) But I think that was paranoia.

I think/hope (let it not be toxic hope!), on balance, it's not Nism. Just her persona for now. Her father's death really knocked her for a loop, and she was despairing and raging for a loooong time. I thnk she's trying to turn a corner and build a new chapter in her life. So I'm going to have more faith in her. It IS easy to see N-ism behind every tree.

Marisa, you've got her, I think. Dark paths, because of intense pain and rage. I think she's just starting to see more light. (And I'm starting to see the end of spoiling her, because helping her TOO much has enabled it to drag on too long. Being away across the ocean, she also acknowleged for the first time that she needs to get some therapy. Hallelujah!)

Thanks.

Hops

[MarisaML]

Thanks ReallyMe.

I took the test myself.  I scored low in most things but scored moderate on avoidant personality.  I'm really not that an avoidant person though.  I think I like to avoid social situations because of what my in-laws have put me through.

[Hopalong]

I took that test too a long time back when you first posted the link, Reallly.
It depressed the crap out of me to score a big red bar of "N".

I want to take it to my T and ask him what's up.

I pretty much think I'm not a serious N, though I do have Nspots.

So that test made me sad and scared.

Hops

[MarisaML]

Hops.. oops I didn't know she was grown.  But like you said some people are a little slow about maturing.  I can see why you would have difficulty in figuring her out.  She may have N-spots like you.

I feel like I'm the opposite of an N.  In a way.  The things that are important to them just aren't important to me.  I could care less what people think of me.  I am always polite and kind to others but if they don't like me then that is their problem.  My parents were that way too.  We learned a lot of humility and selflessness from them.  I am far far far from being perfect but I know exactly what is wrong with me and what I need to change.  Which is also a trait N's don't have.  It has been exceptionally hard for me to understand my in-laws coming from a family so very different from them.

[MarisaML]

Here's another Personality Disorder Test I took.  And these are my results ..the first number is mine and the second is the average score. All the notes below are not mine but what was said after I took the test.  I thought some of you might enjoy taking this one too.

http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/newpd.pl

Paranoid |||||||||||||| 54% 49%
Schizoid |||||||||||||||| 66% 53%
Schizotypal |||||||||||||||| 62% 53%
Antisocial |||||||||||| 42% 47%
Borderline |||||||||||| 50% 47%
Histrionic |||||| 26% 43%
Narcissistic |||||||||| 38% 41%
Avoidant |||||||||| 34% 39%
Dependent |||||||||||| 46% 37%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||| 34% 40%
 
*scores in gray are the average web score
Accuracy:  - 5 high 4 3 2 1 low     
Test Note: Read the descriptions below to avoid misinterpreting test results (for example, the Antisocial classification does not mean you are a loner, it means you tend to be insensitive towards others).
General Note: the validity and reliability of DSM personality disorders are still lacking in strong statistical evidence and clear agreement in the scientific and medical community. They are determined by the American Psychiatric Association and will likely be revised in the future.
Author Note:I don't think Schizoid personality is a valid disorder (read), some of the smartest people in history were schizoid because they occupied a remote end of the intelligence bell curve. Schizotypal personality can encompass highly original thinkers as well as totally insane people so I think it's a flawed type. I think the remaining eight disorders are generally valid.


Disorder Info

Eccentric Personality Disorders: Paranoid, Schizoid, Schizotypal
 


Individuals with these disorders often appear odd or peculiar.

Paranoid Personality Disorder - individual generally tends to interpret the actions of others as threatening.

Schizoid Personality Disorder - individual generally detached from social relationships, and shows a narrow range of emotional expression in various social settings.


Schizotypal Personality Disorder - individual is uncomfortable in close relationships, has thought or perceptual distortions, and peculiarities of behavior.



Dramatic Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic, and Narcissistic
 


Individuals with these disorders have intense, unstable emotions, distorted self-perception, and/or behavioral impulsiveness.

Antisocial Personality Disorder - individual shows a pervasive disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others.

Borderline Personality Disorder - individual shows a generalized pattern of instability in interpersonal relationships, self-image, and observable emotions, and significant impulsiveness.

Histrionic Personality Disorder - individual often displays excessive emotionality and attention seeking in various contexts. They tend to overreact to other people, and are often perceived as shallow and self-centered.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder - individual has a grandiose view of themselves, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy that begins by early adulthood and is present in various situations. These individuals are very demanding in their relationships.


Anxious Personality Disorders: Avoidant, Dependent, Obsessive-Compulsive
 


Individuals with these disorders often appear anxious or fearful.

Avoidant Personality Disorder - individual is socially inhibited, feels inadequate, and is oversensitive to criticism

Dependent Personality Disorder - individual shows an extreme need to be taken care of that leads to fears of separation, and passive and clinging behavior.

Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder - individual is preoccupied with orderliness, perfectionism, and control at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency.

[reallyME]

Marissa

Knowing what I do about that test on PD, and as often as I've used it with people, I can tell you that if you came out with a moderate score in avoidant, you are right...you aren't very avoidant.  If you scored HIGH or VERY HIGH, then you would strongly exhibit that trait.

Thanks for sharing your results.

~ReallyME

[MarisaML]

Thanks ReallyMe that does make me feel better about it.

Storm.. let me find the address for you.

[MarisaML]

Storm.. try doing a searchsimilarminds.com

See if that works for you 

[gratitude28]

Wow... I went away for the weekend and there are a million wonderful posts to read!!
As a teenager, I was terrible Narcissistic. I think I copied a lot of my parents' behaviors. But at some point, I realized I was not acting in a way that felt right to me. I decided to stop lying, be kind to everyone and to learn to listen to other people. I don't know how or why I decided to do this, but I thank God that I did. When I look back at the way I acted before I made that change, I cringe. I am still embarrassed when I come accross people who knew me then.
There are so many good points on this thread. I am trying to accosiate what has been offered and see how it fits...
One thing I know is that if anything bad happened, my mother used it for her own purposes. When we got sick, we were taken to the doctor (and way too much... I can hardly bring myself to go to the Doc once a year now) where we "were the only person he had ever seen..." fill in the blank.... We never had a normal illness. It had to be something outrageous. If it was normal, it was built upon to be something huge. My mother cries when people die, but it is without emotion. It is more of a, "Can't you see how bad I feel." thing. And then she goes on. She did get very depressed when her mother and some other family members died all in one year. But it's weird, I have never seen her revisit those emotions past the initial phase. It's like it's done and over with and that's that.
At any rate, I think you all are right that the most important thing is that Ns lack empathy. I would assume that this would be evident even in young children, but I am no expert
Thanks all!
Love, Beth

[reallyME]

One thing I know is that if anything bad happened, my mother used it for her own purposes. When we got sick, we were taken to the doctor (and way too much... I can hardly bring myself to go to the Doc once a year now) where we "were the only person he had ever seen..." fill in the blank.... We never had a normal illness. It had to be something outrageous. If it was normal, it was built upon to be something huge.

This sounds like Munchaussen Syndrome by Proxy to me.  So sorry you were put through that.  I once read a library book on that.  It's so horrid and sad for children going through that.

My mother cries when people die, but it is without emotion. It is more of a, "Can't you see how bad I feel." thing. And then she goes on. She did get very depressed when her mother and some other family members died all in one year. But it's weird, I have never seen her revisit those emotions past the initial phase. It's like it's done and over with and that's that.
At any rate, I think you all are right that the most important thing is that Ns lack empathy. I would assume that this would be evident even in young children, but I am no expert

I saw this with N, Jodi.  While I was visiting her, one of her dear friends died...just a young girl that Jodi apparently knew rather well.
Well, her husband was on the phone and said "oh my God" and Jodi grabbed the phone and didn't shed a tear, but just kept saying "I just can't believe it."  I can remember sitting there, wanting to go over and hold Jodi or hug her or something.  When I told her "Jodi, I feel like I want to comfort you, hug you or something," she said, "you can go ahead, but just know that it really wont do anything."  I remember feeling stunned, shocked, bewildered, sad, helpless, frustrated.

It's true...once an N experiences emotions, it's like they just erase them after that.  Jodi did that right before my eyes many times.  It feels very FREAKY when they do that!  She definitely did lack empathy.  She could slice and dice people with a stern frown on her face or even while laughin and mocking them.  Behavior that is so unfeeling just really is not normal nor healthy.  I have empathy toward people, so it just really blew my mind!  I do know that Jodi told me she really doesn't grieve the way other people do.  I saw that as she lost about 6 people in the same year and really never was affected deeply by any of the deaths.

~RM

[gratitude28]

Hey Laura,
Yes, it was definitely a bit of M by P, but not severely. According to my mother, my sister has had Lyme's disease, TSS, severe pnemonia, advanced bronchitis and others. Like I said, she dragged us into the hospital for everything. She had my urethra expanded (no joke), I had tubes in my ears, oral surgery, tonsils removed, protein in my urine and on and on. And every time we had one of these illnesses, it was the worst the doctor had ever seen. Somehow I doubt that... she hears what she wants to hear. I also had my teeth straightened. Granted, they were a mess, but according to her, they are the worst teeth the orthodontist had ever seen. My son has an appliance now, and she acts like it is the most distressing thing in the world. He is 7 and I told him he looks like Darth Vader and we get the giggles anytime someone stares at him. Nothing can ever be a simple problem...
Now I am faced with about 9 months apart from my husband. It has been a hard time for the whole family getting ready for it. It has been such an emotional rollercoaster. Of course, she "understands so well," because she had to be apart from my dad... ONCE FOR SIX WEEKS...
Anyhoo, I need to stop today and do some more thinking and listening as I am losing my serenity
Love, Beth

[reallyME]

Beth Yes, it was definitely a bit of M by P, but not severely.

According to my mother, my sister has had Lyme's disease, TSS, severe pnemonia, advanced bronchitis and others. Like I said, she dragged us into the hospital for everything. She had my urethra expanded (no joke), I had tubes in my ears, oral surgery, tonsils removed, protein in my urine and on and on. And every time we had one of these illnesses, it was the worst the doctor had ever seen.

Sounds severe enough for me.  How awful.  My heart goes out to you.  I pray that your "mother" gets or got help and therapy to be able to really SEE HERSELF.

~RM

[Marta]

How are they outside of our relationship with them? Because a kid is never going to really spend the rest of their lives living with mom or dad, and parent/child dynamics are sooooo different than how they are in the "real world".

(((Mum))), who knows this better than you? I hope you are doing well. I don't see you around much these days. Think of you and sending you light too. Love, Marta

Once, when taking my daughter to the mall for yet more shopping, she told me I had embarrassed her.  I had worn sweats (most people did then) but the sweats were not the problem.  Both the tops and the bottoms were purple.  The problem was they didn't match.  I thought then that my baby was growing up and I was becoming dowdy 

You certainly know your daughter a lot better than I would. Still, if I were to hazard a guess, I would say you are spot on. I just remember that you said your mother was competent and because you rejejcted your mother in a way, you rejected her gift of competence. That made me feel really sad, because I have done similar things in my life too. Then of course, if your daughter is anything like me, there is also another possibility. May be the thermostat in the room hit the roof, and she bolted screaming Jpesre. A bit of both -- that's how she could ever let herself say something like that in the first place. Wasn't it you who said that kids throw tantrums only with those whom they trust the most?

Later on, in her last year of high school, she told me her friends AND their mothers could not believe I was her mother when they met me.  OOOMPH, right in the stomach. 

I think she sometimes blurts out what she does not mean. Did you ever get the feeling though that she did not appreciate you? Because if you did, then you should tell her to straighten up her act.

Anyway, that is what I think about your daughter, from what I know of her. As for you, I am sure that you make a wonderful mother. I am sure that you have been like a maple tree to her, and I can't see how your daughter can ever outgrow you.

Lots of love, Marta