Helping Others

[gratitude28]

Portia brought up a great point... are we all selfish and self-serving in our desire to help others?

I have been taught that in order to receive, you need to give. So, yes, I  guess I am doing it for myself. But I also feel a lot better when helping others than I do, say, spending time zoning out in front of the TV, shopping or doing some other completely selfish thing. Who knows if I even ever am a help to others? I try to listen and give support when needed.

It's a hard question, but I guess we can't be attentive to others' needs without having ours met, yet at the same time, we need to help others to gain that strength. A cycle of sorts.

What do you all think?

[Hopalong]

Gratitude,
I agree about the cycle of giving and receiving.

I don't think helping others is selfish except in the way that breathing is.
Humans are social beings. We genuinely need each other.
There is an innate instinct for altruism (along with some not-so-good ones).
But it's real, otherwise human cooperation would never have evolved.

It could be selfish if surviving is selfish.
Or it could be considered as beautiful as any other mystery of nature.

In individual personalities, I think it can go either way.
I know Ns who make a show of giving, it's impression management.
And selfless quiet souls who practice anonymous charity.

I think most of us range in between. Lots of complex things might drive us,
like getting attached to healing damaged mates because unconsciously we're working out
our own healing...but sometimes we find something transcendent going on even
if our first impulses come out of neurosis. Emotional and spiritual growth while we
reach to help others.

We can find so many ways to be harsh to ourselves in this life that I wouldn't want to add
"second-guess oneself for trying to help" to the list...

Hops

[Sela]

Hi Gratitude:

What I learned is very similar.  I was taught that in giving....we receive.

I feel that.  Every time I surprise someone with a gift and they smile and seem happy.  I feel happy.
If I bake cookies and they're gone in 1/2 an hour and everyone has crumbs in the corners of their smiles, I feel happy.  If by chance I say the right thing and someone seems to feel better or even happy....so am I.

I don't believe I set out to gain but I always do gain in the end.  I don't give to get, unless I'm doing it unconsciously.   Maybe I am?  Or maybe I like to give just because I like to see happy faces.

Sometimes, I try to give by offering my perspective.  If I use the wrong words or I inadvertantly upset the person, I feel bad.  I feel like I should have kept my mouth shut.  I don't gain anything good, usually, if that happens, but I might learn what not to do/say.  I think at times, it's a real risk to give.

But I keep trying....here and there because sometimes.....my perspective is received with a postive note and the person seems glad to hear it.  Sometimes, it even helps them.  I'm glad then and I gain from that too.

I guess we can't be attentive to others' needs without having ours met

Ya, so it is my need to feel like I've done something useful or their need for cheering up, for a sweet treat, or for a different perspective that rules my behaviour....my desire to help/give?

I don't know.  Maybe it is as you put.....a cycle.  As long as people are giving and receiving all is well.....nobody will probably complain.  It's when I make a mistake or a poor choice of words and it doesn't help......that the wheel starts spinning in the opposite direction and my motives seem to be more in question....and nobody really gains.

Thanks for putting your views here.  That made me smile.

So did this Hops:

I don't think helping others is selfish except in the way that breathing is.

I'm so glad your breathing Hops.

  Sela

[Hopalong]

 ((((:DSela Hops:D ))))

[Sela]

((((( thanks Hops  )))))

[Anansi]

A good test I learned is when they say no thanks to your offering/gift.  If you feel any twinge of rejection, then it was a bribe not a gift.  Ouch! 

Anansi

"Most people don't enjoy change unless it jingles in their pockets"

[Portia]

Hiya Beth not much to add except

Self-ish and self-serving are not necessarily bad things. Serving your self and being self-ish are okay if your intention is self-awareness for example, or just to feel good! 

I guess it’s where being selfish involves using/abusing another person that it becomes not okay.

I’m going to think of myself and nothing else for the next half hour! (Lovely)
I’m going to ask you to think about me against your wishes (not lovely).

Anansi, hi

A good test I learned is when they say no thanks to your offering/gift.  If you feel any twinge of rejection, then it was a bribe not a gift.  Ouch!

Yah! Our expectations are what make us resentful. But is it a bad bribe? I mean, I can offer someone my listening ear and expect a ‘thank you’ in return, a connection, a signal of reciprocity. If that doesn’t happen I might feel sad. I may not have meant a ‘bribe’ as such (bribe has ‘bad’ connotations), but my offering may have had strings attached – the strings that bind us together, being reciprocal and expecting others to reciprocate. If those ‘strings’ are broken, I might feel sad, I might feel used.  I think that’s okay. Not all bribes are bad perhaps?

[Anansi]

Hi Portia,

You're saying that giving may have positive, connecting, relationship building strings attached, right?  And that this would not be considered a bribe even if there's an expectation of reciprocation, did I get right?

Anansi

[Certain Hope]

Hi Anansi,

I think your test is a good one If we're truly giving from the heart, we won't even allow our left hand to know what our right hand is doing, otherwise it can become a matter of pride or we might sink into a pattern of scorekeeping (who gave the most, etc) .

Hope

[ANewSheriff]

Hi there Gratitude,

I just responded to this very question in another post.  This has been my big issue!  I seem to have narrowed the fuzzy line between compassion and combatitiveness lately, though.  I am just so sick and tired of being kind to people who could care less if I even sucked another breath of air.

I realize the pendulum swings hard from side to side before it settles into a gentle, steady rock.  I seem to have gone from "Volunteer of the Year" to WWF's "Hag from the West", though.  I guess I am just all wore out right now.  I am tired of caretaking.  I have done it my whole life - first with my narcissistic mother, then in the alcoholic home I was raised in, and then on into relationship after relationship with people who did nothing but take.  I even sought out work in a helping profession.  

I hate sounding like a whiner, but I am going to say this because this is really how I feel.  When the chips were down and I needed a friend, there were only a couple of people who "showed up".  I do take some of the responsibility for this because I have always been rather resilient, pretty funny, and very social.  People do not expect me to not be able to overcome obstacles.  I have painted myself into this corner.  Yet, I was so distraught that I flat out told people, "I am stuck.  I am lost.  I need your help, now.  I cannot figure this one out."  (Crickets, please)  I got a deafening silence in return.  I was heartbroken.

So, for myself, I need to find a healthy place for this "service" to others in my life.  I have pretty much resigned myself for an unspecified amount of time.  I need to keep my focus on healing for awhile.  

ANewSheriff            

[Sela]

Hi ANS:

I feel sad for all I imagine you've been through (though I don't know the details).  The feelings are coming through clear, I think:

Disapointment
Feeling betrayed/abandoned
Used
Unappreciated
Alone

Am I anywhere close? 

I don't consider the giving I have done to be my problem.  I consider those who only take........to be the one's with the problem.  Poor them.  Take, take, take.......all the time.

Never satisfied.
Never feeling complete.
Always needing more but not knowing of what.
Like there's a big.........cavern......that can't be filled up fast enough, with enough of anything, or full enough.

Truly........poor state to live in eh?    A sad state, really, I think.

I'm sorry for your hurt and believe me when I say I think I've been in a similar place.  Or maybe I just imagine I have been.    Either way.......I just wanted to express how my thinking has changed and it's helped.

I think we have to pass through a whole bunch of stuff before we can spit out what's useless to us.

Gag.  Spit.  Cough.  Choke.  Hag. Huff.  Puff. Up and awaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!! 

Yep.  There are still days when I feel like I'm drowning in ........stuff.

  Sela

[Hops]

Sherrif,
I am so sorry you've been through such a bleak period. (I sure can relate to caregiver fatigue.) Sounds like you could use some deep, deep rest and a lot of self-nurturing. And do it again.

I know in the last month when all I wanted to do was sleep, I criticized myself and then told myself it was only the ADs. Now I think it was partly the ADs, but also my body finally giving itself permission after 7+ years of caregiving.

Back to you. I wanted to notice that you said "a couple of people" showed up. I remember someone saying to me once, you only have 2 really really close friends in this life, usually. A lot of people you are friends with, acquantainces and groups you genuinely enjoy, but most people only have a couple very close friends. I think its stings most when you've been publically altruistic (not meaning that in a critical way...just that people in those orgs. you've helped know who you are! So I can imagine how you'd expect more help and response.) They did let you down and it would help them grow if you could tell them sometime how abandoned you felt (once you have no more anger about it).

I'm rambling, sorry...(anybody who's sick of my voice today please do skip me! I just have a slow day at work and I'm feeling good enough to put lots of energy into posting today).

I was wondering how you might feel if instead of noticing the pain about who did not show up, you tried to set that on a shelf and sit with the fact that a couple of people DID show up? Just fill up with whatever feelings you have about that?

I truly understand how painful this kind of burnout is. Add feelings of abandonment, and no wonder. I'm also remembering, correct me if not clearly, that this is why you first came to the board, wasn't it? There's a New Sherrif In Town came from that same disappointment and furstration, I think.

Has it budged any?

((((Sherrif)))

Hops

[portia guest]

Hi Anansi, just popped back and saw your post, thanks for replying

You're saying that giving may have positive, connecting, relationship building strings attached, right? 

I think so. I think if I’m receptive to connecting with people, on the simplest level: acknowledging that they exist (Hi), taking an interest (how are you?), seeing if they reciprocate (Hi, good to see you, how are you?) then there is an equal and balanced exchange, it’s looking good. I extended a hand and someone took it, fantastic. I gave a hand, took the risk, took the risk of rejection - because the good outweighs the bad in my opinion. It takes courage and fighting fear to do it though, I think. It’s easier not to do it.

And that this would not be considered a bribe even if there's an expectation of reciprocation, did I get right?

Well what’s a bribe to you? It’s the corrupt side of a helpful activity – encouragement. If I extend my hand I want to encourage you. If you don’t take it, I am rejected but hey, that’s life. I’ll keep trying until someone wants to shake my hand. And of course the more I trust my own judgement, the more I’ll be careful about those I invite to shake my hand.

Phew long explanation sorry but sometimes I can’t find the right words to make it shorter!

What do you think Anansi?

Bye for now, portia

[ANewSheriff]

Sela:

I'm sorry for your hurt and believe me when I say I think I've been in a similar place

Thank you for sharing the journey, Sela.  We just keep putting one foot in front of the other, do we not?  It is nice to know we have comrades that walk the same path.

Hops:

Now I think it was partly the ADs, but also my body finally giving itself permission after 7+ years of caregiving.

Bingo.  Isn't it amazing how our bodies respond to our emotional cues?  Hops, I am glad you are getting some rest.  I might go to bed early tonight and try not to feel guilty or spoiled or lazy okay since you are allowing yourself to rest, too.

Hops:

I truly understand how painful this kind of burnout is. Add feelings of abandonment, and no wonder. I'm also remembering, correct me if not clearly, that this is why you first came to the board, wasn't it? There's a New Sherrif In Town came from that same disappointment and furstration, I think.

Thank you for affirming and validating this.  I hate to whine.  It is nice to know this can be heard and others experience this from time to time.  I feel less guilty about expressing myself.  A New Sheriff - yes, that is my declaration that things are going to change in my life.  And, things are changiing.  But, as you know change does not always come so easy.  So, we just dig our fingernails in and hang on.

ANewSheriff   

 

[Sela]

Hi ANS:

It is nice to know we have comrades that walk the same path.

Amen.  I don't feel so alone any more.  That's an amazing help.  It's really helped me anyway.

There's nothing like isolation eh?

that is my declaration that things are going to change in my life.  And, things are changiing.

Great stuff!!  Wonderful!!  I love change!!  (well I assume it's good change......for the better change eh?).

But, as you know change does not always come so easy.  So, we just dig our fingernails in and hang on.

I think that's ok too.  If it's worth striving for.....it will come.  It might not be easy but it will most likely be worth it.  And if you dig your nails in here and there......it must be because you need to.  To feel secure.  Until you're ready to loosen the grip and move a little.

It's not a race eh?  If it is......I'm losing, that's a given.

The important thing is to keep trudging along eh?

  Sela