Author Topic: Family Dynamics  (Read 2251 times)

gratitude28

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Family Dynamics
« on: June 07, 2006, 11:41:40 PM »
Hi all,
I'm going to try to post here what has been bugging me all week. I know we have talked about the other parent in a Nparent/non Nparent family. I am going to set down what my family's realtionship is like and see you have any insight/familiar stories, etc.
As I've said, my mother is an N. Sh is a middle-aged woman, moderately attractive, slightly overweight, a nurse, little education, but knows a lot about this and that. SHe acts as though she were super intelligent and well read (she reads things like Nancy Drew and certain "clean" mysteries over and over mostly, though). She does have a broad knowledge of trivia. She pretends to be dumb when she thinks it is cute and believe women should be thin and less intelligent than their husbands and slavishly dedicated to their husbands. She views my father as an authority on everything. She believes I am a better person for having married (apparently it was a big concern for her) and my husband is definitely considered by her to be the head of the household. My mother thinks it's amusing that she can never understand/retell a joke. It doesn't seem odd to her that after 25 plus years she still can't find her way around the small town they live in.
My father is an intelligent man. He is also educated only in his field, although he is up-to-date on current events and is so well read that truly he knows something about everything. He is also an alcoholic. He is not a raging alcoholic... more of a drink a few drinks every day and get a bit loopy.On special occasions, get really drunk. He plays the game of, "You are so dumb" with my mother. He also does it with me sometimes and it really pisses me off. I may get lost once, but that does not mean I am a ditz about directions. He likes to pretend "not to believe me" when I say things like that I am good at computers (I do programming at work). The same dumbing down he soes to me, he claimed to have hated when an old boyfriend did it with him. When my mother steps out of line and makes a nasty judgmental type remark, he often, but not always, corrects her.
I don't know, I just feel like the whole relationship is sick. I lumped my parents together as "the enemy" for a long time. When I found out about NPD, I was grateful that I had my father b/c he is the only reason I think I have emotions. Now I am back to being pissed off at both of them for not seeing how ridiculous and hurtful their behavior is.
Sorry for the length and I hope some of this makes sense...
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

gratitude28

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2006, 01:07:10 AM »
Jac,
You are so wonderful for having made it through all of that. I can't imagine having such a horrible thing happen to me and then to have someone ignore it for her own convenience. I guess because I was so unhappy as a child, I feel that children should always come first and should be innocent until proven guilty!! I truly can't imagine how bad that must have made you feel.
My parents didn't abuse me physically or sexually... sometimes that makes me feel I have no reason to be draggin them through the mud like this...
I still loathe the thought of spending time with my parents. It is more ok when they come to visit... in fact, that is mostly fine. But going to their house... I shrink and it's like a cloud of shame falls over me... even the thought of it. I've said before here, but pigsty doesn't even describe their house. It is full of junk and filthy. We never had friends in and now when I go back I could never confortably invite a friend over. Also, if I do go to visit and so much as mention that I would like to go visit a friend, my mother  (and sometimes my father as well) starts screaming that I didn't even go to see them (my parents). The ridiculous thing is that I had hardly any friends and hardly ever went out although I dreamed of running away every day. I don't know why, but I just can't seem to go back there and be the adult that I am, even with my children. How do I separate myself from that????
Whether I stay with them or not, that feeling and fear is there. The whole town is a scary place to me, because I feel like, "Everyone knows." I don't even know what it is I think they know. I'm sorry, I know I sound crazy...
Thanks for the sounding board, all. This is the most I've laid myself open...
Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Hops

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2006, 09:26:38 AM »
Hi Beth,
You don't sound crazy to me at all. You sound breathtakingly sane for someone who had to grow up with such crazymaking people and in such a crazymaking environment.

From what you say about your parents, I think the way their illness/dynamic showed in the home's physical condition was almost as damaging to you as their personalities, particularly your mother's. I think the appearance of your house, with filth and hoarding, would be literally frightening to a child who's had even a glimpse of other people's normally-maintained homes.

And I would imagine the sense of shame you felt at the insane appearance of your home (even more insane when they're "acting" as though it's normal) must have been huge. I don't find it weird at all that it's very very difficult for you to go there. And maybe some people in the town DO "know" about the wackydoodles in that house...surely, some repair person or whomever has been there at some point.

Meanwhile, I think the only thing for you to do is to work as hard as you can on recognizing and respecting your own SEPARATE dignity.

You have it, you can walk with it, whether you're walking down the street or through their door.
Their sickness cannot make you like them. Their shame is not yours. They are not you and you are not them.

You can be sorry for their sad situation, you can love your Dad. And you can SPEAK UP when either of them puts you down. It really might be worth a try, what's the worst that could happen? If one of them hurts your feelings, you could say VERY CALMLY and firmly, that hurts my feelings, and if you don't drop it I will have to leave. And then, if it happens again, calmly LEAVE.

I've read this over and over, anyway. That this is the only way to train (it literally is training) abusive or unkind parents to change their behavior. And it often works.

Even if you don't feel up to changing your behavior around them this time, you could take mental notes for another time. You are in charge of what you do, and what you'll put up with.

You are not crazy, you have nothing to be ashamed about, and your voice is audible if you make it so. You do not deserve to be smothered or silenced.

(((((Beth)))))

Hops

pennyplant

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2006, 09:29:23 AM »
Hi Beth,

It seems like your parents have never made the connection with the condition of the house and the lack of visitors.  And I'm not judging here.  The thing is many people have a hard time keeping up maintenance and picking things up to the extent they would probably prefer.  The problem with this situation is one of degree.  Most people have trouble with something extreme.  Even extreme cleanliness and organization is off-putting to visitors and social connections.  My mother has a tendency towards the extreme cleanliness.  You can't relax over there because you have to worry about where to put your hands, your feet, worry if things are perfect enough.  I generally feel all tied up inside when I go there.  I feel judged when she comes to my house because I sometimes think the place makes her skin crawl because it is not too spic and span.  Anything "extreme" about the home is going to work on your head and your emotions.

I'm proud of you for talking about this.  I don't know what would work in this situation.  It seems deep-seated with them.  It is actually a safety hazard as far as if they needed to get out of the house quickly in the middle of the night, they might not be able to.  But say they allowed someone to clear things out for that reason.  Over time it would build up again.  They would become complacent about the safety issue and they would not have got at the root cause of it.  And you're the daughter.  So, I don't think you can fix the root cause of it either.

I'm glad you escaped that lifestyle.  I don't know if this would help you to start separating or not--but my idea is to research this compulsion of never throwing away possessions.  Find out about others who live this way.  I'm not sure what would be out there or what topic you would look up.  But this idea came to me because I remember seeing a TV show when I was a kid about something similar.  It was a documentary.  They followed a family from when they first married and had nothing.  Then it progressed over the years.  It started out as "collecting".  Possessions and sometimes people.  They would take in homeless type people that they met.  Not necessarily a safe practice either.  The place filled right up.  And the people seemed to have a philosophy that supported their lifestyle.  They "believed" in it.  I remember the show because of the contrast from having nothing in the beginning to having so much they couldn't move in the house.  I wish I could remember what the show was called.

Maybe if you could read about others who do this it might de-sensitize you or help you in some other way.  Make it seem less singular.  Your parents are definitely not rare.

Again, Beth, I'm proud of you for talking about this with us.

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

Brigid

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2006, 11:30:12 AM »
Hi Beth,
Both of my parents are now dead, but I experienced many of the same feelings you are when they were still living.  In my case, the n was my father and the enabler was my mother (although she certainly had n traits).  My father was an alcoholic, emotionally abusive bully to everyone in the household, including my mother.  But like your mom, my mother saw him as the leader of the houshold and she would not/could not make a decision unless he was in agreement. 

I became a much stronger woman than my mother ever was and could eventually stand up to my dad--on both her behalf and mine. He and I had more knock down, drag out fights than I could count.  For many years, I maintained the relationship with them, because of her.  What eventually made me turn away from both of them was her constant support of his bad behavior and taking his side even when I was trying to protect her.  Also, I did not think it was healthy to subject my children to the constant fighting that went on when we visited. 

After he died, all I heard from her was what a great guy he had been and such a wonderful husband and father.  It made me want to gag.  But in some twisted way, I think she needed to justify in her own mind (which at that time, unknown to my brother and I, was beginning to suffer from Alzheimer's) that she stayed with that jerk for over 50 years. 

I found that I was never able to truly forgive her for not supporting me and even when she was very sick with her disease, I rarely had any contact.  I probably should feel some guilt about that, but I really don't and have not missed either of them since they died.

I know that feeling of dread at having to visit and spend time in their presence.  Sadly, it does not go away unless there are changes.  They are probably never going to change, and it will be up to you, Beth, to make the situation livable for you.  The only thing that worked for me was to completely disengage, but perhaps you can find a less drastic approach.  I wish you well.

Hugs,

Brigid

gratitude28

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2006, 08:14:02 PM »
Thank you for the amazing responses... I guess you could tell from my lack of spelling and syntax that I was a bit stressed over writing that!!!

Hops, you brought up an idea and advice that I will follow. I have been mulling it over... when my mother says something hurtful (about my appearance for example, which I know will be the first comment from her... it always is, no matter what I look like) I will tell her that I find the remark hurtful. Like you said... calmly and firmly. I have mostly been calm and firm with her in the past (though I haven't pointed out when she makes these destructive remarks). Sometimes it sets her off... but she will have to deal with that.

Penny, I read about the collecting some. I think it is a branch of OC disorder. Also, Storm provided some great information on here a while back for anyone else who is in the situation. I have read, too, that NPD and OC often go hand in hand. Yes, as the daughter, if I amke any indication at all that I notice anything "out of order" in their house, there is an immediate withdrawal/punishment phase that begins. My father has cordoned off small areas in the house which he keeps organized and clean. I guess they are his sanctuaries.

Brigid, I have met people like your family who are so perfect you feel that way. That is just as hard, beacuse you tiptoe around everything all the time. The possessions are more important than you, it seems.

Again, thanks all. I am feeling a bit calmer today. I truly appreciate the input, insight and advice.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

ANewSheriff

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2006, 10:34:31 PM »
Beth,

Although I hate to admit and own my anger, in the end when I finally get around to acknowledging it and dealing with it I always find that it serves a purpose.  Anger motivates change.  Whenever I can muster up the courage and step out of the denial that my anger actually does exist I usually make a lot of progress in a rather short amount of time.  That is because anger is a messenger of sorts.  It tells us something is not right, out of sync, not working properly.  When we see this we can begin to make changes.  I think your anger is a sign that you are on the brink of change.  Your anger is acting as a pilot.  Perhaps you are not certain where you specifically want to head, but you are certain of where you do not want your destination to be, eh? 

jac,

You are a noble warrior.  I am filled with sadness for what you experienced on your journey.  I am also astonished at your perserverence and courage in not bowing to defeat, but challenging what you were taught and going toe to toe with your demons. 

Hops:
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Their sickness cannot make you like them. Their shame is not yours. They are not you and you are not them.

Amen, Sistah Hops!!!     

ANewSheriff
Change the way you see the world and you will change the world.

reallyME

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Re: Family Dynamics
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2006, 09:25:11 PM »
Again, Jac, AWESOME!  This is indeed the nasty N dance spelled out perfectly!  Glad that one one person stops, the waltz is OVER!  All it takes, people on this list, is for one of you to stop...I doubt that the N will stop dancin...too much "in it" for him/her.  So, you know who that leaves...

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Now I know that it takes two to tango.  The dysfunctional relationship is a dance, and each person has to take part in it, participate in the preditable steps to keep the dance going.  If any one person stops, the dysfunctional waltz is over.  Dysfunctional parents often train their children to keep the dance going on for them, and often we do, in our own lives.