Author Topic: Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse  (Read 3728 times)

Dianne

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« on: January 30, 2004, 05:07:27 PM »
My step-son is getting married in 7 months to a girl who has NPD (my diagnosis).  She displays every classic sign.  She is verbally & emotionally abusive to him, but she has him convinced that she suffers from depression, and he blames the depression for the abuse he suffers.  His life is completely controlled by her emotions, her needs, etc.  She is demanding of everyone around her and if she doesn't get what she wants NOW!, there's hell to pay.  She has attempted to turn my step-son against me (very subltly) because she can't control me.  Anyway, I won't go into great detail, but due to some recent occurances, it has come to light that no one in his family, nor most of his friends, even like the girl.  We are all of the same opinion that she treats him like dirt, as well as uses him and others around her.  She has alienated everyone in his life.  However, he doesn't know all this. (They're travelling)

The dilemma that his mom, dad & I now face is frightening.  We don't want him to marry this girl because we know how manipulative she is and she will ruin his life and the lives of the children they are planning on having.  The problem is he is an adult and there is nothing we can really do to stop this disaster from happening.

We want him to know how destructive an N can be in a relationship.  

    How do we approach him with the subject?[/list:u]
      Where do we get information that would be understood by someone who might be unwillingly to believe it?[/list:u]
        Is there anything that would make her (as the N) end the relationship?[/list:u]
        We know we will have some "broken pieces" to help heal if they do end the relationship, but we all honestly believe that it would better now than after the marriage.

        Any help would be appreciated.  We are really concerned about his future with this abusive girl.

        Thanks,
        Dianne

Dianne

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2004, 05:48:05 PM »
Jacmac,
Unfortunately, I do agree with you, that it is his life and he is entitled to make his own mistakes & his own successes, but I think we just want him to be fully aware of what he is getting into, and to do it with his eyes wide open.
Thanks for your honest opinion.

Dianne

Simon46

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2004, 05:48:20 PM »
Dianne:

This is a tough one. I wonder if there might be a diplomatic way that you could suggest some kind of generalized pre-marital counseling that might open his eyes to something he is not able to see right now. It’s not a bad idea for anyone considering marriage and it might bring some things to light for them. Of course, you also run the risk of alienating them both. It is a very delicate situation

Anonymous

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2004, 05:53:42 PM »
Hi Dianne,

Yow, this is a loaded situation!  

Basically I agree with Jacmac.  you just might have to let go.  In addition, though, I would like to point out that many churches have marriage preparation courses that engaged couples participate in.  In fact, it is required if you are to marry in a Catholic church.  I know of a few couples in which one fiance realized that the quality of communication was much different than what s/he observed in other couples and called it off.  This was considered a success because it prevented a painful union.

That being said, there are a few Ns that have married into my extended family.  I have observed that one is happy because she has married the warrior who could fight her family on her behalf without being the enemy herself.  In a few other cases, the hapless one had been trained since childhood to accept this bad behavior.  And if they don't want to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of another, they are the selfish and bad people.  Also rescuing people can be an ego-rush.  

But how to rescue a rescuer?

You might want to read Difficult Conversations to prepare for any kind of discussion with him.  It may help you to own your feelings without alienating him or making him feel criticized for his choice.  Perhaps suggest that he ask her how she envisions their future together, including interactions with his friends, his family, his colleagues and people who love him and meet his emotional needs.  Or ask him how he feels about not seeing so and so any more, and gently point out a pattern of events........

But in the end, it's his choice.  Many of my family members after a very long time had to realize that while particular relationships may not be to our liking, it may be to theirs.  We don't know God's plan for everyone.  Perhaps your step-on needs to do this to learn some powerful lessons.  I do know what you are going through as I have witnessed it more than once.  

Good luck and my prayers are with you as you find your own path through this very difficult situation.  S.

Anonymous

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2004, 05:56:14 PM »
Whoops,

a little Freudian typ-o there.  I meant to type step-son, not step-on!!  :oops:   Seeker

Nic

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2004, 06:57:53 PM »
Hi Dianne,
I really agree with the answers you've received so far.  Also, it is a very difficult situation.  
I would add that if they are married in a recognized church, they will have to go through a pre-marital course that might open their eyes to some potential problems.
Also, I think that if children of alcoholics who haven't been introduced to the Adult Children of Alcoholics program, go out and marry alcoholics , they do so unwittingly and reproduce what they have learned at home.  Could the same thing apply to adult children of Ns? Maybe..
I know you and your family want your son to be happy and how frustrating it must be to see him potentially walking into a trap.  But you know, it wouldn't be your choice and it wouldn't be his fault either.
I think approaching the subject in a loving and caring way and being on the lookout for him becoming insensed with anger toward you( as you enter his private realm) could act as a gauge for how involved in this very personal choice you want to be.
If all else fails, you can be supportive ( you don't have to like his wife, but you can't show that imo) and adjust your like or dislike of her as the years wear on..it could be something entirely different than what you're thinking.  But best of all, if this isn't meant to be and you really want your son in your lives you can make him see you'll all be there for him no matter what.
If you all are secure in who you are, you'll be able to respect his choice, even live with it.
best of luck,
Nic :)
All truth passes through 3 stages
First it is ridiculed, second, it is violently opposed,third,it is accepted as being self evident
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Anonymous

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2004, 08:50:56 PM »
Thank you everyone, for your replies.  I'm starting to feel better because your answers are pretty much what I feel deep in my heart.  As far as pre-marriage councelling...well, that's out.  The N has already stated emphatically that she will not go to PMC.  In fact this was made very clear to me by her, because I work for a mainstream church and was trying to have them married by a minister friend of mine who would insist that they attend.  They're being married by a little-recognized faith minister, who only performs marriages.

I have already begun to compose my communication with my step-son, and I hope that I have expressed myself in a loving, caring manner, but I think I will take a look at the book that was recommended, Difficult Conversations.

Thanks again everyone
Dianne

Nancy Drew

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To Dianne
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2004, 07:31:31 PM »
I was just reading up on some posts, because I have been absent for a little while..and came across yours, regarding your step-son.  I just want to say that it is VERY difficult to accept seeing someone you love plunge forth into something that is so wrong for them.  And our minds tell us (after much prayer and sleepless nights) that since they are an "adult" we have nos ay.
My son, who has always been a steady, smart-thinking person, has recently taken up again with a girlfriend from high school (he has had a steady for 4 yrs.) and she is a drinker, partying all the time, the daughter of 2 alcoholics,e tc..Very abusive with language and ations.  His steady is a wonderful woman. He is 30 and yes, an adult.  
He is also in law enforcement.  My husband and I think "He arrests people like that!"  What is the attraction?  
Dianne, all I can say is that we aer going through it too, and it hurts deeply, even though we are the parents of an "adult".  Where will it end?  We have to trust.  But still...it is agonizing for us.   :(

CC

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2004, 10:21:08 AM »
Dianne,

I am going to give you a different perspective, and one that I think is extremely important, but it is because of my own experience.

When I was about to make a big mistake to marry a man that was terribly bad for me several years ago - I was about 24 at the time - my mother and sister expressed their concerns in a couple of different ways on a couple of different occasions.  I had been involved with this guy for four years, and lived with him for 3.

One way was loving, supportive, but "please be sure you know what you're doing".

The other was a series of subtle remarks over the four years I spent with this guy whenever a situation would arise, about how they disapproved and frowned upon his reactions and personality.  As time went on I shared less and less details about my relationship to him with my family because of these reactions.

You are probably wondering what the outcome was:   I was terribly hurt, resentful and felt betrayed by my family.  Even though they had the best intentions, I felt completely unsupported and angry.  I felt that my family didn't trust me to make adult decisions, and felt infantalized in their presence.  I was resentful that they thought they knew what was best for me, because I felt that only I did.   I was in a place where somehow this unhealthy person was fullfilling my needs, and I felt like no one understood that.   I was in a great deal of pain - had lost my father suddenly about a year before I met this man - but everyone thought I was just blinded by love and having fun because I never showed the pain to anyone.  To an extent, they were right - because I didn't know that I was grieving my dad yet - I didn't go through the proper "stages" until years later in therapy.

My former fiance had movie-star looks and made me feel like the queen of England, even though he was deceitful, unambitious, and not very bright.  So my family expected me to be appreciative of their concern - instead  I distanced myself and drew closer to those who were supportive of my unhealthy person.  I can tell you that it wouldn't have mattered who or what was said to me, this was the man for me, and nothing was going to stop me - and anyone who saw it differently didn't really care about me because they couldn't understand that he is what I needed at that moment.   Even though they meant well, even the slightest lack of support of this relationship from my family made me feel bad about myself because they questioned my decision making ability.  So I kept far away from them!  I felt so betrayed from my family, and when things did start to get bad with the guy, I felt I couldn't confide in my family - because they would just say "I told you" or "see, you should get rid of him" instead of just listening or being supportive.  

Luckily, I discovered on my own about 5 months before the wedding that this man had been unfaithful to me for 6 months while we were living together.  I dragged him to couples therapy to try and save the relationship and soon after became strong enough to realize he wasn't what I really needed/wanted.    We never married, and I moved out of the area where he was from after a month.

Dianne, I am about to enter the world of parenthood, 5 months pregnant at age 36 and very happily married to a healthy man.  I probably would give you different advice in another 20 years, like some of the posters here whom have had advice with children.  However, I think it is still soooooo important to remember the "child's" perspective.  And I can honestly say, even now years later, I am married to a wonderful man, have learned many life lessons, and looking back, I would still have wanted my family to have acted differently back then.  I still feel they were wrong.  

Your son is still very young, and here is the reality - he is probably going to make this mistake, and learn the hard way.  Please, be very careful about giving him advice he does not want to hear.  If you feel confident that he is intelligent, you have raised him well, etc. - there is not much else you can do except hope for the best that he will figure it out sooner than later.  In truth, intelligence has nothing to do with matters of the heart and deep psychological needs - no matter how unhealthy they may appear on the outside.   I fear that if you show the slightest bit of disapproval you will push him away, and what he will really need, when things get tough for him - is to know that he can call you up when this jerk girl has hurt him, and just listen, and not tell him, "see, I told you".   He will probably go through a few years of this frustrating stuff as you silently watch her do these terrible things - and it will be tortureous.  But I don't think I've ever heard of a story of an adult child coming back to an unsupportive family after a divorce and saying, "MOTHER, why didn't you TELL me I was making a huge mistake?  Why didn't you TELL me this person was a terrible narcissist?"  On the contrary - I would have really appreciated my family if they would have supported me no matter what.  I guarantee, would have come back to my mom and said, "Gee, mom, I sure was stupid about [former fiance].  But thanks for trusting me and letting me figure it out.  You were there when I needed you."

So, going against the grain of everyone else here - I say, if you really love him, show your support that you TRUST him, that if he believes this is the right girl for him, that he has your blessing.  I think, despite everyone's intention here of saying "deliver the message in a loving manner", it doesn't matter HOW you deliver the message - the message still is - I DON'T APPROVE.  This is going to hurt his self-esteem, no matter how old he is.

Even if ever fiber of your being tells you differently - there may be something he is getting from her that you don't see.  And lets not forget - he may have his own demons that she is accepting as well.  He will figure it out, and unfortunately, it may not be until after they have been married for a while.  But it is his life to lead, ultimately - and he needs his family to fall back on and for support.

I really hope you will hear this.  I know it would have made a real difference to me had my mother heard me.  I felt voiceless.  She didn't HEAR me.  Please LISTEN to your son.  If you really care - sit down with him and instead of telling him what you don't like, ASK HIM what the things are about her that he loves.  Maybe you can learn to identify what those things are, so you can better understand why he needs to be with her.  You might even try to find common ground with HER based on those things - he would really appreciate it I'm sure.
CC - 'If it sucks longer than an hour, get rid of it!'

Anonymous

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Help! Son engaged to N and doesn't recognize the abuse
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2004, 06:24:51 PM »
Dianne,

I think it is okay to ask your son this question: "Are you sure this is what you want?" (without referring to her name). She could be very bad news if she thinks you have spoken against her. She may try to alienate your son and future grandchildren if she considers you a threat. But you can ask your son this question. Likely he will marry her and there is nothing you can do to stop it (sorry). My sister married a loser and we all hinted to her that she was making a mistake. She now knows! But she refused to listen at the time.