My Story

[Karin]

I’ve been adding a few comments here and there for a while on the board and I’m aware that you don’t know much about me. Sorry about that. I haven’t really felt the need for any advice or support; just to know that you know what I know is enough for me. I gave up trying to explain my husband’s narcissism to friends and family, they just don’t get it and you can’t blame them really, because they weren’t there. This board has been invaluable. But, I will perhaps need you all in the future as settlement issues with him are about to surface again soon. So here’s a bit of a run down on me.
I’m 49 and about a year ago came across narcissism as a possible explanation for the behaviour of the person that I loved and married in 1975. He came from a family where the father was an anxious, socially phobic, rude and totally self-absorbed man and his mother was a ‘typical’ 50’s style housewife. Apron on, cooking, cleaning, preserving and ran around after her husband. She was not a ‘warm’ woman. No emotions other than red-faced rage. Only once did I manage to break through her exterior and have a decent, in-depth conversation with her. So I know she was capable of it, but she chose to hide herself. I don’t have any contact with them anymore, and they’ve never taken any real interest in our 3 children. No loss there.
My mother has narcissistic traits and can be a pain in the butt at times though I do have a good relationship with her now. I think because I left home when I was 18, fed up with her trying to control me, (my thoughts, friends, career and everything) she had no choice but to let go of me. My father didn’t really have much of a say in things. He was dependable and there. We seemed to have an unspoken understanding of each other. It would irk Mum when she saw this and she’ll still say as an insult that I’m just like him. He said to me just before he died 4 years ago that ‘he loved my mother but it has not been easy living with her’. I’m telling you all this because I think backgrounds can be helpful in gaining an insight into present situations.
I trained as a nurse but when the 3 children arrived I was a stay-at-home Mum and loved it. I had no desire to go back to work and my husband didn’t seem to have a problem with that either. We decided to move countries from New Zealand to Australia because of better work opportunities for my husband. We were in the kitchen when we told his mother that we had definitely decided to go for a few years and she said, “That’s nice… I wonder if these potatoes are done yet?”  We went, and about six months later he got a letter from her to say that they had sold their house to his younger sister and husband and that they were going to live in a new granny flat there. They had also loaned her the money to buy the property and that she would be responsible for them when they got old. They were only in their early 50’s at that stage. My husband felt very left out, and wrote to them of his concerns (why hadn’t they discussed it with any of the other 3 siblings, what if his sister gets divorced, where would they end up etc.) Back came a nasty letter from the sister accusing him of only being after their parents money. He was very wounded. And I suppose that’s what I’ve been battling with ever since. Instead of dealing with it, he buried it (and whatever else). He got more ambitious at work and the hours at work became longer. He basically started to become his father and took his sh.. out on the kids and me verbally and sometimes physically. I’m not sure if the narcissism was already there and I just didn’t see it or whether he just copied his father’s techniques. I’m not going to go through all the things he said and did but the narcissist label fits like a glove. Our eldest daughter (14) showed signs of OCD just as we were returning to Australia from England were we’d lived for 4 years. A common manifestation of stress. I went back to school and started a 5-year university degree in Architecture. The plan was that we would start a building company using both our skills, him being a civil engineer. Why did I keep going on? Because he talked me into it and I still believed above all that he would be faithful to me. We went to marriage counselling and I finished my degree. My father died and a month later found out that my husband had been to a prostitute while away with work. I decided that the marriage was still worth fighting for and we limped on for 2 years until I caught him out again. I really wasn’t surprised because in those 2 years I saw absolutely no remorse or empathy for me. I was his employee and he could do whatever he wanted.
I think I’m through the worst of it for myself, but the kids are still struggling. Two of them (24 & 20) live with me and the older one is not too far away. We all get on well together and find comfort in one another when we need to. He’s in the Middle East working now and will be back in March for the next court hearing. He won’t settle financially because he thinks it’s all his! I’ve given up stressing about it; he doesn’t matter to me any more. I’ll be OK and so will the kids eventually.
Thanks for reading, if you’ve got this far.

[seeker]

Hi Karin,

Sounds like you been down quite a long road.  Welcome and I'm glad you find the board useful.  It's been pretty gratifying for me as well esp. since as you say, many people don't know about N because it is so subtle and comes to light only after repeated exposure.  

Thanks for sharing your story with everybody.  Look forard to hearing from you more.  Best, S.

[WarriorGirl]

Karin,
   I wish I could be there to hold your head and assure you you aren't nuts. Doesn't it feel like you're the one with the problem, in your soul, as we all did?
   Why do the best of us get challenged by the worst?
   Because we're warriors.
   Love to you fair lady.

[Karin]

Thank you so much Seeker and WarriorGirl for your kind comments. It's amazing how a few words can make such a difference.

[Nic]

Hi Karin,
Thank you so much for your story..I feel like I know you tons better now.  And..how I can relate to your story.
I was reading about your husband and your experience with him..and something jumped out at me that I struggle with as a victim of N abuse.  The way you describe it, it appeared to me that after being so hurt by his own family..not being consulted about his parents and their future ( in a normal family, everyone is involved aren't they?) that his self absorption turned evil against his own ( you and your children) family.
It has been long maintained that indeed Ns are wounded souls, that they repeat patterns presented to them when they were helpless children..such pervasiveness.
I struggle with the repeating of these patterns of life..my guilt comes from the fact that knowing how hurt they've all been, I cannot get into that frame of mind where my heart can understand their pain on that level only.  I think i'm not there yet because of my ongoing court struggles with my own N parents.  How can you move into the deeper realm of authentic understanding and forgiveness when the Ns are there, at your throat, relentlessly abusing you..polluting your very atmosphere with their venomous blaming and self-centered criticism.  Sometimes, when I explain my relationship to my N parents and brother to friends or acquaintances and they don't quite get it, i feel frustrated with these very friends because, in their uninformed yet genuine goodness, they are almost forcing me to accept the unacceptable.
It's very frustrating..and like you, i've decided to fight to the end whilst letting go of my Ns, who will never understand themselves.  Like your husband, my Ns believe they own it all..even with the accounting, black figures on white paper in their faces, they are unwilling to admit and unable to conceive that my wife and I have put loads of money and time in our commonly owned property.  ( REF: nparents are suing my wife and I for the sale of our commonly owned property saying we spent no money there and that they are paying for " our lifestyle")
There is a vacuum there, an N void..an N blindness or veil that won't let reality and truth in.  As if you and I were looking at Sydney harbour with the Opera House and all..and I kept insisting that there was no Opera House there...it's that bad!!!
So, I think, like you...the only thing left to do is fight for what's rightly ours, ie: the material stuff..and let go of the other stuff, in your case your N ex hubby and in mine..my N ex adoptive Parents and my N ex adopted brother.
Seems like Ns can only relate to things they can touch and handle, such as money, other peoples' bodies..they hang on to the tangible stuff because they cannot and are too afraid to deal with the intagibles..feelings, responsibilities, and what they should be accountable for.
What a trip it's been huh?
Thanks so much for your story..and much much luck in court.
blessings Nic

[Simon46]

Nic said

"Sometimes, when I explain my relationship to my N parents and brother to friends or acquaintances and they don't quite get it, i feel frustrated with these very friends because, in their uninformed yet genuine goodness, they are almost forcing me to accept the unacceptable."

This is tough because it is so hard to explain to people who have never experienced the N patterns, or at least thought about it a lot. Particularly the "covert narcissism" version that happens behind closed doors to immediate family members only. Folks who don't live inside the same doors you did would simply find it to be unbelievable. "They seem like nice people to me, sweet as can be, what do you mean?"

I have had friends tell me that I should "patch it up" with my father while I can. I've been told to "shake it off" by well-meaning friends. I recently received a well-intentioned letter from a relative telling me "she doesn't know anything about what happened, but that my parents are "wonderful people" and that God has instructed her to intervene in this matter. She also sent me an inspirational book quoting Christian scripture, specific pages to read, and told me to call my father and that she would send him the same book and let him know that I was going to call so that he would be receptive.

I sent her back a letter thanking her for the book and the kind thoughts.  What else can you do?

[Discounted Girl]

Send the well-meaning do-gooders a list of only 10,000 of the 65,000,000 incidences well thought-out and orchestrated to bring deliberate harm to you by your Nparent.  Tell them more are available upon request. It's not a point of argument, it's a point of validation and if they don't "get it," that's understandable, but they need their eyes forcibly opened perhaps. Get N'd all your life by the woman who owns the womb from whence you came, then tell me you "got over it."  Tell the relative who was divinely inspired that she should have stayed tuned to the whole of God's message. The intervention may have been a directive for her to point the finger where it belongs. Tell her Simon says to take a giant backwards step and get informed before preaching.

While it has not yet happened, I fully expect that when my NQueenmother passes away I will hear about how awful it must have been for me, and how could I have stood it all those years, and stories of how she mistreated others, bla, bla -- they can all save their breath. The time for validation and acknowledgment is now, not then.

[Nic]

I love that Discounted Girl..to tell that lady that she should get and stay atuned with God's real message!  WEll said!
I feel the same anger you do..it's a horrible thing to have been abused in silence like we were...the Ns forced us into this double life..They ultimately have to pay I just know it!
I've tried what you say a couple of times, that is telling with a list and recounting the many things and times i was done wrong by my Nparents.  It's doubly frustrating because the aunt or the uncle switch off..they're literally not listening..the n thing and the Abuse thing seem to be diseases not only of voicelessness but also of silence..hence the covert element.
Yuck!  I slipped my telephone number to my favourite aunt on my Ndad's side at christmastime via somebody else..the deliverer told me she thought my aunt would call me.  It is now feb the 3rd and no phonecall..people decide what they want to deal with and vice versa..obviously my aunt doesn't feel the same about me as I do/did about her..
It's very isolating fighting your Ns...if you're fighting them the way I am, you're fighting a whole long established structure..a real network of lies and schemes developed over time and involving many people.  My advice to anyone would be to know what you are embarking on ..Know your enemy, because fighting my Ns has been hell on earth..and it's still continuing.  When someone doesn't want you to get at the truth, there is nothing they won't do...but you get used to it after a while in that the same lies resurface and ultimately the Ns have told so many lies and have fabricated so much that they begin to slip up here and there..and others start to wonder until, ultimately and I dare hope inevitably they hang themselves.
I can remember taking blame for something major when I was a teenager and yelling at my N dad:  " It is statistically impossible for me to be responsible for every f___ing thing that goes on or wrong around here!"...no response from him..as he silently slipped away and went about his business..as usual.
The next day I was in the car park of a shopping mall, smoking a joint ( I had taken that up at age 17..ugh!) and from one minute to the next was plunged into six months of an anxiety attack..i literally was panicked, agoraphobic, totally felt like I was going to die, lost 50 lbs, had a constriction of my oesophagus that would not go away..and of course I couldn't talk to anybody about it..alone again!
I've since read that mental illness is something alot of ACONS slip into if somehow they cannot get the help necessary..I came very close to it..i read on panic and anxiety at that age and discovered that phobias were irrational fears and told myself repeatedly that my fear and feelings of impending doom were irrational and that I shouldn't be feeling them..that helped some.  I did alot of physical exercise to  tire me out mentally because I just couldn't relax.  Every bite of food was painful to swallow..
All of this crap I went through alone ALONE, my N mom was zonked out on Halcion and alcohol and my N dad couldn't give a shit..he was zonked out on avoidance..
I felt like a trapped animal, at 17..can you imagine?  So many of my friends were enjoying  the most wonderful times of their lives and I was suffering in silence, afraid to be.
A family friend prescribed Valium..four times a day..I took one and felt so out of control on that ( i was literally thinking too fast and my body was not reacting on time or in sync with my thoughts..very weird!) and I never touched that again..in the back of my mind was the fear of being silenced with drugs and the greater fear of becoming a pill popping replica of my crazy mother..
Oi! what a trip...
I hate the way my n parents are but i know i can't change them...I've gotten away from them now..despite the court case.  If I hadn't been so well trained in guilt and shame I would have/should have left right then and there..the minute I turned 18.  I've since forgiven myself for being so naive and thinking things would ever change.
So I put off my rebellion...until now!  I'm forty, scarred and scared, but I know i'm doing the right thing for my own emotional survival.
Best of luck to everyone in their struggle,
love Nic

[seeker]

Hey everybody,

I just wanted to put  out there that I feel like it is impossible for people who have not gone through a particular kind of difficulty to validate the experiences of someone who has.  Okay, that's a little vague, but what I mean is it takes an ACON to recognize the particular and peculiar pain of other ACONs.  It's almost like being a Vietnam vet.  Even vets who fought other wars couldn't relate completely with these guys because it was a most bizarre "conflict".  Why were they fighting?  Who was the enemy?  Why did some friends spit on them when they got home?  

I also have other challenges that are not related to N or mental health at all, but are subtle.  I suspected that the only people who could possibly understand my point of view were parents of similar circumstances, and even some of them are in denial.  (Sorry, I won't be more specific right now).  I tested this theory by sharing my experiences with a well-meaning friend.  She is kind, but she simply cannot understand what I am talking about and she is someone who really wants to and doesn't have any agenda about this issue except wanting to understand.  It is like speaking a foreign language.  But I was glad I tried even though it was frustrating.  It taught me where to seek validation.  I guess, after all this rambling, that is my point, where to find that validation...

Nic, your experience sounds just horrendous.  There must be a very strong survival instinct in you to have rejected the drugs, etc.  and to seek help after having been so alone.  The aloneness is something I still struggle with.  From the outside I do not look alone, but I feel it every single day. I am now working on trying to accept that fact as a part of me.  I actually enjoy being alone a lot and need lots of space.  At the same time, I wish I had that one best friend outside my family to count on.  

On a lighter note: DG, I hear your anger, but I had to laugh when you said "Simon says..."  That lady with the books did sound like an obnoxious self-appointed referee.  I want to say to her "God told me to tell you that I got His message..."  I wonder if she walks around with a pink "While You Were Out" message pad, checking "Please Return God's Call..."  Simon, you could tell her God can reach you directly on your cell phone and you won't be needing her answering services in the future since you have voicemail.  Does she wear one of those tee shirts that say "You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me"?  OK, I'll lay off, she does mean well, I'm sure.  

Take care out there   S.

[Simon46]

hear your anger, but I had to laugh when you said "Simon says..." That lady with the books did sound like an obnoxious self-appointed referee. I want to say to her "God told me to tell you that I got His message..." I wonder if she walks around with a pink "While You Were Out" message pad, checking "Please Return God's Call..." Simon, you could tell her God can reach you directly on your cell phone and you won't be needing her answering services in the future since you have voicemail. Does she wear one of those tee shirts that say "You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me"? OK, I'll lay off, she does mean well, I'm sure.

Seeker - This is really funny! Thanks for the laugh.

My own reaction to receiving her book and "instructions" surprised even me. I truly was not mad, or offended. I just thought matter-of-factly "Ahhh, there it is, I wondered when this was coming." I did not know when or from whom, but I had already anticipated something like this and simply accepted it as a well-meaning gesture from someone who understands absolutely nothing about the situation. How could I even take it seriously?

I no longer feel much of a need to explain the situation to anyone, even my good friends. Even my best friend of 30 years just asks "Have you called your Dad?"  He doesn't really want to hear the details, he could not understand them anyway. This is OK with me at this point.

It has really helped me to realize that no one else read all those nasty emails, heard the nasty phone calls, or saw the ugly letters. No one else was there all of those times I was beat up with words and demeaned. (Except my siblings) Even the most earnest seeker would have a hard time understanding it. How could they get it when all they ever saw was the "nice guy." Other people's ignorance is becoming a little more OK with me each day. I feel like I am accepting it for what it was. Feeling less of a need to explain it, feel some of the anger and emotional energy draining out of it (after almost 2 years).

I have not spoken with them in almost two years and also live 500 miles away (As do all my sibs) and am not entangled with them in my day to day life, as many of you are. They are not able to inflict fresh wounds, so that the ones I have can begin to heal. That helps a lot too.

[Anonymous]

I wish(ed) so much that my husband had in him what you Nic and Simon have in you. The ability to see and question things for what they are and not just accept his parents' version of life. I don't know why he chose his path, cowardice is in there. Maybe just his genetics or his way of coping is just to put his head in the sand like them. I have no idea. What is certain is that he did have a choice.
Thanks all.
Karin.

[Nic]

Hi Karin,
There has to be a purpose in everything, for everything don't you think? Sometimes in the depths and throws of depressive thoughts ( which believe me I fight like the plague..oops! the plague is incurable isn't it ..which I fight off, shall we say, as best I can..) I see the light at the end of the tunnel and hence the purpose..even if i don't understand it completely.  We can only understand and grasp when we are ready.
I can relate to the grieving part of your post.  In fact, I think of my sister in law..married to my N brother..he was trained to be an N by my N parents..what a shame.  My brother, tall, athletic, blond, green eyed ( we have no bio links 'cos we are adopted) had that appealing quality that every girl thinks of and wants when they're 12!  He wanted to settle down at one point and while going out with another girl, cheated on her to end up with A  now his wife.
A saw nothing wrong with moving in to her heartthrob..A is so so looking, ( my brother would never have married someone smarter or super sexy..he would have gone out and did with plenty of those..in fact he wanted an underling wife who could provide him with children but primarily supply!!!)  She, A, my sister in law was verbally abused in front of my family multiple times, name calling...imagine and I kid you not my brother used to call her, excuse the language but this is the truth, he used to call her " Fuck Face" at the bloody dining room table...and my parents would find it vulgar but never lose it at him..I did!  And then everybody thought I was overreacting and the whole thing would turn into a big joke..sheesh..
Sorry i'm very tired tonight so it's not flowing like it should...the communication that is!  Suffice it to say that this poor girl, my sister in law, A, ( with whom I have no contact anymore) is now overweight...whereas she prided herself with her figure ( enough to have two low birthweight babies in a row 'cos my brother used to mind her being fat while pregnant!) she is also now on Zoloft ( and can't get off it..it's been at least five years..and I know that Zoloft can cause weight gain!)  Conveniently, my athletic heart throb of a brother is now at least 80lbs overweight himself.  My mother used to compete with her and "hate" her before I got married, now they're buddy buddy because she's trained her as one of the lions in her circus act...Both N SIL and N brother have taken my N parents' side in my present court battle...My brother actually told my wife that what he wants is " the money" so we can't count on him for anything if it jeopardizes his inheritance, despite being told repeatedly by my N dad that he isn't going to get an F___in' cent..
It's that kind of environment Karin...your husband reminded me of my brother...I was stronger emotionally..had a lot of things figured out young and I did not accept my parents' version of reality...but I lOVED my parents and he hated them..It's so weird how it all turns topsy turvy..the crazy N ride..unpredictable predictability..that's the only way I can describe it..a huge living oxymoronic abyss.
And you are right..cowardice has a lot to do with it.  I don't think my brother was a natural born coward..he was trained to be that way and wasn't the most gifted guy...he learned quickly to use his stuff and neglected the important and significant things in life, but he did have a choice, as you say..to a great extent he chose that path..you're right.
That's it for now..I know where you're coming from,
BTW:  I am tall, dark and handsome, and athletic now! Yep! It is amazingly weird that as a fat kid, i've ended up a good looking 40 year old!  blows me away sometimes   I can still remember my brother making me feel so ugly and awkward back then, I used to tell him: ONE DAY! it will be you..I really said that and it's happened!
PS:  WARRIOR GIRL, you are the one who inspired me to strut MY Stuff this evening!     truly, I love the way you expressed YOUR STUFF! why not!
blessings to all!