My Niece

[Hopalong]

One reason I pooped out on thanking each of you for your amazing help with my thread about my D (I'm not done yet!) is that I've gotten some sad news. My Nbrother, who's coming to visit for a week...called tonight and asked me to help explain to our mother what's happening with his 15 y/o daughter.

She's been in and out of the hospital for the last six months and is now going in for at least a month and had to drop out of her freshman year of high school. She is diagnosed with bipolar, ADHD and something that causes her to pull out her eyelashes and hair.

He is stricken, and I can't imagine how she and all his family are suffering. As happened when he went to Viet Nam, I find this triggers complete compassion and a new wave of forgiveness. He asked my help, he's not bullying, and I'm going to try to be a good sister to him when he comes.

I am very sad for them. We're not a close family but I remember first taking that little cherub in my arms. She has seemed irritable and moody as long as I've known her, but I didn't know why.

Just asking your thoughts and prayers for her.

Thanks,
Hops

[moonlight52]

Hops ,This is such an early chance for your niece.

I did not know a Bipolar diagnoses could Be made in the teenage years.

I hope your niece is receptive to the meds that can help so very much.

Love,
Moon

[Certain Hope]

Including your neice and the whole family in my prayers, Hops.

Love, Hope

[Stormchild]

Hops - just remember: he's an N, and she's his child. Do be cautious where you bestow your support until you have a better sense of how much of her acting out is directly traceable to his treatment of her... she may need you much more than he does.

Ns are famous for 'getting in there first' to play the victim and garner all the sympathy in the region, so that those they harm are closed off from support.

Just sayin'.

[Portia]

Hops

I don’t understand:

called tonight and asked me to help explain to our mother what's happening with his 15 y/o daughter.

Why does your mother need to know all this?

He asked my help,
To do what? Unburden his woes on your mother?

he's not bullying
he’s getting you to do what he wants

, and I'm going to try to be a good sister to him when he comes.

Is he going to be a good brother to you? Do you have your own problems (thank you very much), or is it all about HIM because his problems are bigger (and better)?

Does he give a toss about his daughter? Seems to me this is about him, not her. I could be wrong!

[Hopalong]

Thanks everyone.
Portia and Storm...good points. I hadn't stopped to ask myself that.

I do wonder why he wants me to help him talk about his own child with my mother. I do wonder why he'll be here for over a week while his D is home in the hospital. I just felt sorry for him as I'm sure it's been awful.

As disturbed as my brother is, I don't doubt that he loves his D. He's been a rough father for his kids, as he is a bully...but I still see the disturbed boy beneath. But he's always done a lot with her, the youngest child, such as hiking, camping, etc.

You know, I think I'd better talk to my sister in law (a sweet, honest person) before I get entangled in an information triangle with my brother and Mom. Perhaps I will write him back and offer just to be there when he tells Mom about his daughter's hosptializaton. And if she is not comprehending I can help, as she trusts me and listens to me about medical things. I appreciate you warning me not to forget his nature. (I would support my neice but she's far from here...I can get an address for cards, etc.--maybe send her some books.)

My brother tends to fall into line with NMoms princess vision of herself so perhaps he does believe she needs much cushioning and protecting. My first thought is, why does she need to be protected from the truth? It's probably because she calls him so often and he doesn't want to lie. (His family is quite religious.) I'm not sure.

Hops

[lightofheart]

Hi Hoppy,

Your niece and whole family will be part of my prayers. Saying one now. Also your daughter (am days out of the loop, will look for that thread). Hope your good heart is helping to comfort you through this.

((((Hops))))

LoH

[Portia]

Good thinking Hops (easy for me to ask questions because I’m not involved and don’t the folks)

If I was being really tough, I’d ask myself if I was you: what’s his objective in this visit (especially when as you say, his D’s in hospital)?

And as for your mother being shielded from the truth, I’d ask the opposite: what’s the objective in telling her everything? Does she need to know (and possibly feel upset in some way) about it? Is it caring, compassionate, to tell her everything?

In other words: what does he expect to happen from his telling mother (and what are the problems he might foresee)? Possibilities:
 
- attention and sympathy for him?
- aged mother making trip to see great niece?
- paying for hospital or other (therapy?) bills?

Maybe ask SIL if you can - why is he visiting now?

It just gets to me that this doesn’t help his D, as far as I can see….but I don’t know.

Take care ((((((Hops)))))))

[moonlight52]

Hops .Why would your brother just not stay at home and help his child .What would he expect you and your mom to do?

And would it not be his place to tell his mom about his child himself ?

Love ,

Moon

[mum]

Hi, Hops. Sending love and peace to you and your niece.

I think you are smart, and if you detach for a minute from the emotionality of the whole thing, you will start to get a picture of where you fit (if at all) in this strange request of your brother's.

We don't tell my mom everything, and haven't for years, as even when she was well, she couldn't handle it. I wanted to be truthful on many occassions, but people who were geographically closer to her felt differently. It all worked out in the end, but I knew THEY were the ones' who would feel the fallout and confusion after I dropped whatever bomb it was.

Maybe as the one who is with your mom, your brother needs to know how you feel about her even having this info. Is that what he is asking of you? To tell him whether she needs to know at all?
We never told my mom about my niece while she was missing/in rehab/using again/arrested, or whatever. Why should we?
Just because we are blood related, it does not make it always appropriate to share everything.

As far as being a good sister...you can be, and maintain your own boundaries. I would find out exactly what he is up to....you need more information....what does he mean by his request (as in "what would that LOOK LIKE"?). Ask him. Tell him what you will and will not do. You can be a good sister by loving him, sending the best to his daughter, seeing what you can do for HER, etc....but you don't always have to put yourself in a bad position. Step out of the old pattern, or at least see if that's going on before you do/say anything. Awareness is everything.

[penelope]

hi Hops, I'm going to quote a few things you said if that's OK by you, and just ask a few questions to try to help ya clarify this:

My Nbrother, who's coming to visit for a week...called tonight and asked me to help explain to our mother what's happening with his 15 y/o daughter.

oh dear.  What about your plan to stay detached...oh dear indeed.

She's been in and out of the hospital for the last six months and is now going in for at least a month and had to drop out of her freshman year of high school. She is diagnosed with bipolar, ADHD and something that causes her to pull out her eyelashes and hair.

I'm so sorry for her.  Being a teenager is hard enough.  It sounds like she is in real pain to be doing all this.

He is stricken, and I can't imagine how she and all his family are suffering.

hops - Ns don't suffer in the same way we do.  He's wondering how horrible this will be for his image, maybe...he's happy the attention is off him for awhile maybe (clearly his daughter is the "problem" in the family, see - and this proves it).  Subconsciously, he might be thinking/feeling his scapegoating of her is working...possibly.  I dunno.  Don't really want to get in the mind of an N, hops.  Do you?  Be careful, k?
I feel bad for her and for her mom and - are there siblings?

..He asked my help, he's not bullying, and I'm going to try to be a good sister to him when he comes.

How did he ask you for help and what exactly did he ask hops?  Was this all in email, where you can't "hear" the tone?

I am very sad for them...

What else are you feeling hops?  Relief maybe?  validation?  cause, does this is anyway prove that he cannot parent his daughter.. something you may have expected all along, due to his N? (you don't have to answer this of course - maybe in your mind would be enough).  I have to be totally honest here and say this is probably what I'd be thinking, were it my N family member - happiness, relief that I was right and knew all along bad things were going to happen because of the way he treated others...ick.  It's not a good "right" though, is it?  

Just asking your thoughts and prayers for her.

I will most definetly say a prayer for your neice and for you hops.

What do you think about all this hops?  I mean, objectively?  Think of your past with this man, not the little boy you knew growing up.  Are you OK with what he's asking you to do or is this some kind of trick?  Doesn't sound like you'll be detached, in other words....


hugs,
pb



 

[WRITE]

She is diagnosed with bipolar, ADHD and something that causes her to pull out her eyelashes and hair.

I suspect that these are often part of the same spectrum of bipolar where the person cannot modify their life- behaviourally or through life changes or currently via medication.

I have a bipolar close friend now who compounds her own stress as she can never say no to her family, which is huge and has constant major problems. She supposedly has trichomania/ chronic fatigue + bipolar.
She believes if she could get some respite from outside pressures -plus she has several doctors who all diagnose differnet meds which all seem to work against each other- she would be better.

My bipolar neighbour guy compunds his own issues by using cannabis & alcohol and being unreliable and unstable: he told me he has been diagnosed delusional, borderline personality disorder, alcoholic and bipolar.
But he has a negative approach to things- believes he is entitled to behave a certain way/ not work/ neglect his family because he has this bipolar diagnosis.

IT MAKES ME REALLY MAD! when someone 'bipolar' receives a multiple diagnosis as an initial tool.
Observe their bipolar diagnosis and mood swings and responses to triggers and medication for some time before a secondary diagnosis!
Treat the mood swings first.

She has seemed irritable and moody as long as I've known her, but I didn't know why.

I hate to fly in the face of medical pharmacy but 'unmet needs' are likeliest explanations for mood swings.

Being a 'good sister' might mean going to se the child, offering your support and love, and nothing to do with your N brother.

[Plucky]

Hops,
you have gotten some awesome advice here.  All I can add, is that in conversation with NB,  try silence.  This is working so well with my N mother!  When he says something to which you feel compelled to jump in and help, or advise, or defend, or provide more information, just say nothing.  Because let's face it.  We N survivors, our instincts are wrong, a lot of the time. 

Plucky

[Hopalong]

Hi all,
I called my brother for more information about my niece. Unfortunately SIL didn't answer, but I think I got a straight story. They are delivering her tomorrow to a residential treatment program/school two hours from their city.

She is out-of-control, running away, hanging with "the wrong crowd" and has been arrested multiple times. I asked for what but he was reluctant to give details, said "violating curfew and other stupid stuff". He said this place they're sending her to is their last chance. It does sound like a desperation choice. I don't know if drugs are an issue but it has substance abuse treatment as well. He thinks she may be there a year or even two.

I told him I'd been thinking about his question about our mother, and thought it might be easier for him to give her minimal information, and that he might just tell her they're sending niece to a boarding school for kids with problems...which is another way of describing it. NMom will understand that much. He agreed, acknowledging that if he goes into it in a lot of detail she'll call him constantly. I didn't offer to tell her anything about it for him. His job if he wants to bring it up (and I think he would want to say something, because she calls him often and will notice if she never gets to speak to her granddaughter.)

As to him being here a week, I believe there is no family contact when the child first enters the program, so he's not abandoning her by coming. (Don't know what it implies about his marriage, but this is his pattern...he travels a lot. This time, he has one business appointment nearby--so he'll be in another city for a night--and will be here the rest of that week.)

I'm going to be supportive if he wants to talk to me about it. He did mention that it's taking a lot of money, so that could be part of his agenda in seeing Mom. But there's nothing I can do about that and I'm not going to fixate on it. His wife has a wealthy mother and wealthy childless aunt, so I believe they could find financial help there. Mom has minimal money, just our house. I'll stay out of that unless she brings it up with me.

I don't know if asking her for money is part of his agenda, but it could well be. Or, he may just need to get away, and is seeking comfort and a break. I don't feel good around him, but I don't blame him. I feel terrible for my SIL, but her mother, aunt and brother and brother's family, to whom she is quite close, are all in their city. And she's very involved in their church, so I believe she'll have support.

Basically, I want to stay out of it. I will send cards to my niece and pray for all of them. He said she doesn't take her medication and can't be left unsupervised, ever, because she runs off. She hasn't figured out how to work a stove or do her laundry...there must be other LDs involved. Poor kid.

thanks for listening,
Hops

[WRITE]

He thinks she may be there a year or even two.

goodness, seems a long time H.
If it's a hospital or detox especially.
Sounds more like a residential school?

there is no family contact when the child first enters the program, so he's not abandoning her by coming.

I don't know enough about these programmes, some like substance abuse address withdrawal first so no visitors; but I would guess if it's a school type place there would be regular visiting. In fact- most good facilities for kids are pretty open, gives the staff chance to get to know the parents etc.

Just what you are writing so far- and the lack of direct honest answers- would compel me to stay at a distance until you see what your part in it all will be.

When you get the address you can Google the facility and maybe get more of a picture.

I think it is probably important for you to see the whole picture to come to some resolution about your brother, but I wouldn't trust his 'straight story'.
Not because it isn't straight to him, but just that Ns distort so much.

Maybe with his daughter all his behaviours have come back to bite him on the backside- but I doubt you'll hear that.

Take care, how is your health these days? Did your back get better some?