Author Topic: My First Post  (Read 2692 times)

Doodle

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My First Post
« on: July 03, 2006, 12:58:25 PM »
I'm very glad to have found this message board.  I've been lurking for quite awhile and am glad to see that I am not alone in being raised without much of a voice. 

My mother, 57, has suffered a lot through her life.  She was mentally and physically abused as a child and raised in poverty.  She was the youngest, which made things even more difficult.  Her father died of Parkinson's when she was 16 and she quit school around the same time (but got her GED later, might I add) to help my grandma.  By the time I came along, she had a series of physical, and then mental, sicknesses.  In the first few years of my life, she had two major surgeries and suffered from severe Agoraphobia and Panic Disorder.  When I was two, she went to an inpatient treatment program for both disorders.  I, of course, was too young to understand.  As those first years of my life went on, her relationship with my father deteriorated and ended in divorce when I was 7. 

During the two years in which she and I were alone, we forged a 'bond of anxiety' as I like to call it.  She protected me fiercely.  She questioned my father and step-mother's every actions. I felt guilty for visiting them because I was 'betraying' my mom.  Of course, she never stated this to me, but it was implied, no matter how much she knew I was just visiting my father. To make matters worse, my father and step-mom owned a cat which I developed an allergy to. This allergy resulted in asthma. They would not get rid of the cat and I had to stop staying over on the weekends, thus negatively affecting my relationship with them and giving my mom more ammunition to use against 'the bad guys'.

When I was 10, she remarried and I gained a step dad and brother.  Like most 10 year olds in new step families, I didn't adujst very well.  Instead of helping me adjust, my most prominent memory is my mother defending me against her new husband.  If he did something I didn't like, she would defend me to the end.  Instead of giving me a voice, I became the one that could do no wrong against all of the people in the world that were trying to be mean to me.

Funny thing is that almost every time I accomplish something and my mom says she is proud of me, she tells me the story about how her therapist (when I was young) couldn't believe that she was able to protect her daughter from her horrible upbringing.  She is clueless.

Fast forward 20 years.  I'm a responsible, independent adult.  I've been in therapy for 4 years and much of the understanding I have of my upbringing was discovered in all those sessions. I've learned to set boundries and break the cycle of co-dependency with my mother.  My personal relationships have improved and after a few unhealthy relationships, I know how to ask for what I need and value my individuality while in one. 

*BUT*

My mother is suffering.  She tells me that we are 'drifting apart'.  She says she misses me.  When I question anything she tells me, she states that she 'tries hard to stay out of my life'.  She attacks me when I set boundries by throwing every manipulative comment in the book at me, yet she is 'just being a mom' if confronted about anything she says or does.  Her health is declining - she constantly cancells her apopintments.  She won't get emotional support form anyone else but her family.  She demonizes her husband.  She tells him to go out with me and have fun when she cancels our plans.  She hasn't been to a family gathering in years.  Just yesterday, she hung up on me twice.  Four hours later, my step father called me to ask if I would give her a call and tell her I'm not mad at her because, "she can't go to sleep unless she knows you're not mad".  I called.  It was a trap.  She cornered me in the coversation and told me that when we spoke earlier, she was just trying to "talk to me like I talk to her" and that she doesn't know why I'm so cold.  I guess you had to be there.

I'm sorry, but once you're a mother you're always a mother.  I feel like mine is already dead.  :?

Thanks for listening...

Doodle


mum

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 01:31:05 PM »
Hi, Doodle. Welcome. Your situation sounds incredibly frustrating. I am frustrated for you!

Mother daughter relationships are complicated. I know this as a daughter and as a mother. But having a manipulative and screwed up mother makes it all the worse. You sound like you are smart and well adjusted. You have done the work needed to be a fully functioning, compassionate person. Your mother has not.

Have you ever read the book "the Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner? In it, she describes how we get into relationship patterns (or dances) with people, especially family, and when we decide to make choices that are more productive for ourselves, that cause us to change the pattern, the other person/people make an almost backlash effort to get us to stay where we were.
It sounds like your mom is doing that. She wants to direct how the relationship goes. She is needy and wants you to provide for those needs.
I find the hardest part of life for me is knowing when to enforce my healthy boundaries, and when I am just being stubborn. N's tend to make me question that more than anyone else. Why? Because it's all about them.....not a wit about you.
And as a compassionate person, it's hard to enforce those boundaries because they are sooo good at getting us to feel sorry for them....and then they stick in the knife....

OY, what a problem. I am thinking you will do well with this, but it will not be fun. Sticking up for ourselves when the Ns want to just wear us down is tough. Perhaps try to detach from your mother's emotions, expectations and see her as not related to you at all.....then see if her behavoir is ok with you. I'm guessing not at all.

Give yourself a "glass body" as my mentor calls it. All around you, about arms length away....imagine a glass bubble. Everybit of negativity just bounces off of this. You are protected, the crap cannot get it. It's flexible, this glass, but thick, and you can allow nice things to get to you....but the other stufff, well it just can't get through. I use this image a lot when dealing with my exN. Sounds corny, but it's the only thing I could think of that might help you. You know everything else, really.

Hops

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2006, 01:56:36 PM »
Welcome, Doodle. (And what a great name.)
I especially related to your NMother "wanting emotional support ONLY from family members." That is true with my NMom as well, and it's a good reminder of what NOT to do to my own D.

I have been helped so much, to an extraordinary degree, by the wise and kind people on this board. I am glad you found it too, and hope to hear much more of your voice.

again Welcome,
Hopalong

--------
Speaking of "wise and kind"...Mum, you mentioned having a mentor. I'm curious, if you feel like explaining a little more. I have been thinking off and on about how what it might be like to have someone in my life who could offer some guidance in some of the spiritual/emotional work I'm trying to do. Church has helped me by giving me a family, friends do their best but we all have separate trajectories and time demands...and my T was great, for years, but I'd like to learn from someone new. Any thoughts?

thanks,
Hops

mum

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 02:23:22 PM »
Hey, hops (sorry doodle...don't mean to hijack). I'll PM you!

ANewSheriff

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 03:33:21 PM »
Doodle,

Welcome!  You have been through a lot.  You have worked hard and it shows in your writings.  As you navigate this course, know that you are not alone and that you have support.  There is a lot of experience, guidance, and wisdom on this board.  I hope you will check in often and share more about your journey as you move ahead.

ANewSheriff
Change the way you see the world and you will change the world.

pennyplant

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 08:58:22 PM »
Hi Doodle,

Welcome to the board.  I hope you will post some more.  It really does help to get it out there and put words to what you see and feel.  The reading helps too.  So much experience here.  All kinds of different perspectives and ideas and styles.  I hope something here really speaks to you and that you can feel the support that is available.

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

Doodle

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2006, 12:46:46 PM »
Quote
Have you ever read the book "the Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner? In it, she describes how we get into relationship patterns (or dances) with people, especially family, and when we decide to make choices that are more productive for ourselves, that cause us to change the pattern, the other person/people make an almost backlash effort to get us to stay where we were.
It sounds like your mom is doing that. She wants to direct how the relationship goes. She is needy and wants you to provide for those needs.
I find the hardest part of life for me is knowing when to enforce my healthy boundaries, and when I am just being stubborn. N's tend to make me question that more than anyone else. Why? Because it's all about them.....not a wit about you.

Mum - I have not read that book but I am very interested in doing so!  It sounds to be very helpful.  The latter part of your quote above really hit home, too.  I also find myself struggling to distinguish between enforcing healthy boundaries and being stubborn (or just plain mean for that matter).  It's hard to develop a voice and enforce healthy boundaries at the same time!! Even though enforcing boundaries helps develop our voice, feeling unsure doesn't let it 'sink in' at times.

Yesterday, my mother called.  She asked how my weekend and gone.  I told her that it was great and fun.  I was going to ask her how things were with her, but she said, "Well, I won't take up any more of your time" before I could get a word out.  I said, "Well, OK...." and told her I loved her...and she just said "Alright, bye".  Don't get me wrong - I don't need my mom to tell me that she loves me - my main point is the taking up my time part.  It makes me so angry when she says that! 

Anyways, I'll get my reply up because it's been awhile since I posted. Thank you everyone for the warm welcomes and I look forward to both gaining from and giving to this board.

Doodle

Hopalong

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2006, 03:45:39 PM »
Hi Doodle,
I recognize that plaintive "I won't take up more of your time" manipulation, too.

It seems to me that there might be a sort of aggressive martyrdom.

You feel guilty when the martyr moans, and that distracts you from the passive-aggressive stuff that's also going on. Enough to make your head spin.

Maybe...you could try responding to "I won't take up more of your time" with some new responses, just to see how it goes to sort of "take back the tone" of the exchange (of course, not reacting to the tone...not letting her tone be YOUR fault...would be the best thing of all):

--You won't? Oh, okay. Talk to you next time.
--How about your time? I'm fine for five more minutes.
--That works for me, I've got to scoot. Bye!
--I see. Well, glad you're doing well. (NO MATTER WHAT SHE'S SAID.)  :evil:

Hope you'll keep us posted!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

reallyME

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2006, 07:57:45 AM »
From Doodle
Quote
Yesterday, my mother called.  She asked how my weekend and gone.  I told her that it was great and fun.  I was going to ask her how things were with her, but she said, "Well, I won't take up any more of your time" before I could get a word out.  I said, "Well, OK...." and told her I loved her...and she just said "Alright, bye".  Don't get me wrong - I don't need my mom to tell me that she loves me - my main point is the taking up my time part.  It makes me so angry when she says that! 


Welcome to the Board, first of all!

This thing your mother did to you has been done to me as well...it is commonly known as a guilt-trip with intent to elicit PITY, and it irritates me to no end.  I like the way you responded..."ok, bye."  We don't want to play their game of "I pull away, saying how bad I feel about BURDENING YOU TO TALK TO ME.  It's a bunch of HOOEY, to put it nicely.

When someone starts that crud with me, I do exactly what you did..."ok, bye"  That tells them, "YOU HAVE A CHOICE IN IF WE TALK OR NOT.  YOU ARE NOT PUTTING THIS ON ME, CAUSE I REFUSE TO OWN IT!"

Good job, Doodle!

~Laura

Certain Hope

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2006, 10:39:32 AM »
Hi Doodle and welcome  :)

Sounds like your mom's entire identity is wrapped up in what she perceives as "protecting" you (or rather herself, as she's projected herself onto you). Seems to me she's actually very envious of you and her envy is what's destroying her. I don't mean that she wants what you have, but rather that she wants to BE you. Hops' phrase "aggressive martyrdom" is right on track too, I think. It's like she keeps setting up these scenarios where she knows she'll be "rejected".  Have you ever asked her what it is she really wants from you? Would be interesting to hear her reply. No harm in asking.

The only way I know to end the game is to stop playing the role she's assigned to you and continue to clearly define your own boundaries, both inner and outer. When the tape of my mother's voice and her ways begins playing in my head, I cast that down as a vain imagination. She is welcome to be herself in her own body, mind, spirit, and space, but not in mine. Blessings on your recovery process.

Hope


lightofheart

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Re: My First Post
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2006, 01:23:31 PM »
Hi Doodle,

Welcome, and kudos on picking such a cool name. 8)

Hope you feel some relief for sharing about your M.? Those conversations sound tooth-gnashingly hard on your end.

imho, the group on this board has literally no end of good knowledge, life experience, and ideas about boundary setting. I've learned more about boundaries in a few months here than the previous 40 years. Fabulously generous sharers here. Thank you for joining in.

Sounds like your Mom and my MiL could be soul sisters, conversationally. Some of MiL's faves: 'I'm sure that's more than enough complaining from me,' 'Oh, you don't want to hear anymore about that', 'I'm sure you have better things to do than listen to me'.

One thing I finally figured out the hard way: Mum's right, it's all about her; I'm an incidental prop in these scenes. When my MiL starts self-martyring, she's really talking to herself, about herself, in the only voice she knows how to hear. The sad truth is, there's no polite argument or positive comment from me that will help her see anything good about herself that she's not ready to believe.

A tragic equation, imho, that people who can't learn to help themselves sometimes just can't see brighter paths beyond their pain.

Best blessings to you as you keep gaining what you need, by leaps and bounds. Hope you keep sharing your healing journey here.

LoH