Aging N'Mom

[cat]

Mom finally made her way into an assisted living facility.  She fired the nurses who were helping her move, and foisted all the work on an elderly friend, and a next door neighbor.  She didn't ask - she just assumed everyone would come an help her out.

Now the neighbor knows why we won't come to the aid or live near or mother and has terminated her relationship with my mom.

Dad was living in a nursing home - but mom decided it was too much money - so she moved him an hour away from her in a VA nursing home - and because it would cost too much - won't pay for him to have a private phone.

Meanwhile, the nursing home dad was in, is a facility my nMom would like to be in.  She begs the doctor to put her into it. . . and for the second time, has stopped taking her medicine just to get into the hospital - and then recoup in the nursing home.

She passes guilt on to everyone around her, but yet doesn't even have a glimmer of guilt about what she's doing to dad.  I'm thinking dad is better off being an hour away from her - but what a whacked out kind of life to live!

[Stormchild]

Stay away as much as possible, and check the state laws where you live to be certain there isn't a 'destitute parent' law on the books. If there is, talk to someone ASAP about putting your assets in trust. Seriously. Even if all you have is a ten year old car and the clothes on your back.

[Sugarbear]

I'm so sorry about your father's living arrangements being disturbed.

Your mother is a selfish, controlling person.

I have been through something similar with my mother. She scheduled a knee replacement without arranging for aftercare (which the doctors told her would be necessary and last for at least 2 weeks) and expected me to drop everything to take care of her. She even lied about the doctor's orders and/or ignored them because she decided that she didn't want to have to depend on "strangers" - homecare nurses who would have been better equiped and available. It wasn't a money issue - it was a control issue.

I hope you are able to distance yourself from her.

[pennyplant]

Oh Cat, when I read this I thought what a sad, sad life your mother is living.  I suppose she doesn't realize it.  But to be so calculating and callous.  It is truly a very sad story.  I don't know what the destitute parent law is--Stormy, does that mean children have to bankrupt themselves before the state will cover the parent's care?  That seems so backwards.  And short-sighted.

Cat, does your Dad have anybody near by to visit him?  Your mother certainly has isolated him by moving him and not allowing a phone.  What a shame.  You probably shouldn't feel guilty, if she is trying to make you feel that way--your mother has demonstrated that she can take very good care of herself with or without friends and family.  People like that are always fine and generally get whatever they go after.  They are takers.  No one needs to feel guilty about not giving them even more!

Was it this bad with her while growing up, or has she gotten worse with age?

Pennyplant

[cat]

Oh - my nMom is not destitute by any means. . . she's just a penny pincher to a degree that's ridiculous.  They have a financial advisor who is encouraging her to spend the money.  We've talked to the financial advisor who tells us girls, there's plenty to sustain them (then the nMom gets angry that we talked to her financial advisor!  How dare we go around her back and discuss their situation.)  It's all about control!

I could not even call up the ex-next door neighbor to ask how mom was doing without getting in trouble.

So, it is not worth it to me to even deal with it.  I could go to the state and start the process of claiming her incompentent and become a legal guardian.  But then I'd have to deal with anger for the rest of her life.  I could do it, and get all the headaches - or just let her die by making the bad decisions with her health.  My sister and I talked about it - and we decided to just go ahead and let her die if she wants to due to her incompentency and control.

Pennyplant - she had always been this way - but with dad around, he sheltered her from the real world.  When dad went into a facility - she found out the hard way what real life is all about.  She found out being rude to people got her in trouble.  She found out not everyone thought she was the center of the universe!  I think with dad in a facility the stress of covering for her is gone!

The worst thing she ever did was get a computer virus. . . then sent out email rants about various people - and the people she was ranting about (me and my sis) wound up getting copied.  She said the problem was the "dumb computer" - and refused to see that her ranting could get forwarded, or that she had a responsibility to curb her outbursts.

[Stormchild]

Hi cat

the point of a 'destitute parent' law is that, in some states, after she spends every penny of her money, you still have an obligation to fund her care, even if it costs you your home, your car, and every cent you have saved.

regardless of what she spends her own money on, or when.

you may be well advised to check into it, if she is sufficiently spiteful to bankrupt you intentionally as her parting gift.

[Hopalong]

Eeek.

I thought Medicaid would kick in for destitute parents???

Hops

[Stormchild]

You'd think that, wouldn't you?

And you would be so sadly, sadly mistaken.

from here: http://209.15.46.229/legalmatters/news/52.shtml

"The Maryland Code provides, in section 13-102 of the Family Law Article, that an adult child cannot refuse to provide a destitute parent with “food, shelter, care and clothing.” This provision can be enforced by the State’s Attorney in Court. The provision of “food, shelter, care and clothing” can occur in a nursing home.

This author believes that this will be one of the nursing home funding mechanisms that alleviates the current crisis. Surely it is not unethical or immoral at least to require that the child who received the asset from the parent support the parent with the value of that asset. It is certain that Courts will follow this logic and compel payment.

Review your financial plan and be sure that you are not inadvertently caught by this change in the law. Consult with your professional advisor. In the next article: more on changes to Medicaid."

Any questions, folks? Check your state codes. Wouldn't it be lovely to find yourself compelled to devote every penny of your savings to the care and feeding of your childhood batterer, molester, or psychological abuser?

By your State's Attorney?

To "alleviate the current crisis in nursing home funding"?

On edit: note to mum: you may be doing your daughter a bigger favor than you think, by moving her to a different state than the one her father lives in...

[Hopalong]

 

 

Hops

[Stormchild]

 

Hops

Couldn't agree more. Cynicism does have its practical side... and on the noncynical side, it's a good idea to know about this so you can warn your grown children to protect themselves, if and when the time comes.

[On edit: just for fun, I downloaded the standard 'charging language' to be used in the same state I cited the code for, above. Here's the destitute parent nonsupport charging language:

Support Destitute Parent      FL 13-102 
MISDEMEANOR  $1,000.00 - 1 YEAR 
*1_3808*
**NONSUPPORT - DEST. PARENTS**   

" ...did neglect and refuse to provide necessary shelter, food, care  and clothing for ______ (name), [his/her] destitute parent, the  said _____ (defendant) having the means to do so."

So.... they can jail you for a year for refusing to underwrite your batterer [or worse]. While fining you and confiscating your assets to support said batterer [or worse]. Lovely, isn't it.]

[adrift]

Cat,

   Your mom sounds like a true nightmare.  I've seen and experienced similar family situations and it never ceases to astound me how much some people love money, control and themselves.  Sounds like you made the right decision in just letting your mom do her own thing.  Getting involved would only be hell for you and nothing you did would be right, would it? Let her make her bed and lie in it.  Some people can be helped and some can't, sounds like your mother defnitely falls into the "can't" camp.

 Do you have any contact with your Dad?  How is he doing?

   My MIL is a true piece of work.  I haven't written the forum about her because it's so unbelieveable and it would take so many hours to get it all down.  My FIL is practically her slave and she treats him like crap, lots of verbal abuse, etc... yet he continues to do everything for her---at least he won't have any regrets or guilt, which is more than I can say for her.  Anyway, he told me years ago, that if something happens to him first, to just put her in a nursing home because no one else could please her.  Truth is, he can't please her either, but he works hard at it   I have no doubt my FIL will die first because she's gonna drive him completely crazy and wear him out.  I have no sympathy for her and when he's gone, she'll be sitting all alone in a nursing home because no one will be able to stand to be around her.  No one can stand her now, I can only imagine how much worse she'll get when her only Nsupply (my FIL) is  gone.   

Adrift with land in sight

[mum]

Stormy:

On edit: note to mum: you may be doing your daughter a bigger favor than you think, by moving her to a different state than the one her father lives in...

oh, yeah....got that right. Now I have reason # 798, or is that 799....

Cat: It sounds like your mom has money, and what you have learned is that it is enough to take care of her for quite some time? Also, that she is a penny pincher, and although she has the money, is NOT spending it as she should on her health?

If I have that right, then maybe you don't need to worry about being forced to take care of her...and if she insists on doing things her way, a way that may shorten her life....well, seems like you and your sister are letting your mom own her power, which she wants anyway, and you can own yours.

You already know that all the expensive care in the world and all the sacrifice you may do will not change who your mother is or how she treats people one bit.

Good decision, letting her own it.

[cat]

Stormy - thanks for the link.  If I read it correctly, the Maryland law seems to state that if the aging parent gave me a gift or something like that - 60 months before they needed medicare, I'd have to provide them shelter, care, clothing, etc.

However, there is NO WAY that nMom will give anything out.  A phone - a stinking phone for my dad.  She won't give it - perhaps the phone will be my birthday gift to dad - and I'll have them send the bill to me.

Mom has the special gift of appearing needing and victimized - and pulling people into her world.  She is spending the money on her health - not a problem!  But when she wants attention, she just doesn't take the medicine.

Adrift:  About your FIL. . . wow, he recognizes ad acknowledges the MIL.  That's good - he talks about it!  My dad just took it - and went along with mom to make life easier.  Fortunately, my aunts climbed all over him and told him he needed to make it right with his daughters . . . and he did.  Then he wound up in a nursing home.  Adrift:  It is so nice for you FIL to let you all know up front what to do with her.

Thanks Mum! - - your words bring some sense of peace.

[Stormchild]

Hi cat -

Not quite. The law as interpreted considers that you are obligated to pay for your parent's care when they are old because they paid for yours when you were their dependent child. For decent, loving parents, this would never be an issue - they give all they can to you, and then when it's time, you give all you can to them.

But for an N? Talk about an N's wildest dream. Legal license to exploit and drain you, financially as well as in every other way now. Without limit, all the days of your life.

If they give you a gift within a certain time of trying to qualify for Medicare, they won't qualify for Medicare because the gift will be seen as an attempt to shelter assets by giving them to you.

All that means is that the state will use the recent gift as further justification for coming after you. It doesn't mean that you are safe if Nmom didn't give you diddly after you were grown. If you and she are both breathing, and you still have a nickel, this law allows the State to take that nickel away from you to pay for her nursing home care.

I've talked to elder law & family law attorneys about this. Attorneys plural. More than one law firm. I wanted to be very sure.

*****

For some reason, trying to get this info across has felt like a major uphill battle for me, and I wasn't expecting that. I'm learning that unexpected difficulty in communicating means something. I'm not sure what it means in this case, but I'm stopping here; people have enough info to do their own Googling etc., and the topic is slightly offthread anyway. It was never meant to be more than a single 'alerting' post. 

Good luck, all.

[Certain Hope]

Welcome, Cat     

You say, "Mom has the special gift of appearing needing and victimized - and pulling people into her world."
Sounds like more of that "aggressive martyrdom" (thanks to Hops). 

Sorry you're having to deal with the fallout from all this, Cat. My mother makes quite a show of "taking care of" my dad, who no doubt would like nothing more than for her to take an extended vacation so that he could do his own thing... yet he always bows to her demands (58 years and counting). She would spend hundreds of dollars on herself ... designer eyeglasses, the very best in dental and medical care.... while he walks around in spectacles so scratched you can barely see through them and has to go to the VA for his doc visits.

I wonder, too... how IS your dad doing? Maybe he's quite content now being distanced from his wife. I think a phone would be a great gift for him... just don't give mom the # 

Blessings,
Hope