to Portia or whomever:

[reallyME]

Portia,

I haven't said much on the board up until now, because there was not much I really wanted to comment about, but when someone jokes about something that is profoundly negative, I take issue with that.  Regarding the joke about "it sure is hot down here" since I hold that hell is a very real place of torment and punishment, and it's even depicted as such by artists, cartoonists, etc, I have a problem finding something funny that makes it seem like a real normal thing for someone to comment about it in a nonchalant place.  If I'm wrong and hell is just someone's idea and not a real place,then fine, but I do believe it is real and it is TORTUROUS, so jokes about it, to me, really cause it to sound trivial...so it's the trivializing of a very negative thing, that I found distasteful and unhumorous.  It's fine if other people disagree.  I have learned that it's ok to let others own their own opinions, views, actions. 

I'm not an N
I’d agree with you there. Do you say this because most often, it seems, Ns simply don’t have any sense of humour? (Okay, they like to laugh at other people’s misfortune,

That's what I was tryin to say above "Laugh at other people's misfortune"  ...a joke is an attempt to make people laugh at another's misfortune...in the case of this one, the person ended up in HELL...funny?  I don't think so.  Was that joke not an attempt to cause people to find it funny that a person ended up in a place of eternal torment?  If hell is real, it sure IS HOT IN THERE, and not a joking matter.  That's just how I see it.  I love humor, my dad is a professional comedian, but when it comes to joking about serious and negative things, I guess I have a problem with seeing the humor in it, personally.  Nor do I think anyone who is in hell would be communicating with someone on the earth and if they were, they wouldn't be finding their own fate to be a joking or laughing matter.  Again, this is how I view things.

but could someone please tell me how I'm supposed to react to this?

This was not a LITERAL question, as though I don't know how to react to this.  Borderlines and N's make that statement a lot "how would you LIKE Me to feel?  What am I supposed to say?  I was being facetious here, as if to say "well of COURSE I'd find this distasteful.

Hey this sounds odd to me. Do you really need someone to tell you how to respond?

Not hardly, if you might not have already been able to tell by my numerous postings about how I felt, believed.  I know exactly how to respond to things and have a very clear-thinking mind of my own.

So with Sela’s joke, well, you could think: this is Sela’s thread and it is for ‘anything’ so why not put a joke here?

Ok, no problem.  Sela's thread, Sela's right to do what she pleases.  Makes sense, thanks.
 

Okay, no problem. Do you ‘need’ to say so?

Yep, cause I wouldn't want anyone to think that hell is pretend and something to laugh at; for if that be the case, and they think it isn't real, they might just live their lives in a frivolous way and have to find out that it IS real.  I care too much about people's eternities to not speak up and point out truth in this one.

I mean, do you think it is as important to say you don’t find hell jokes funny, as it is important for you to have done what you did with the couple in the restaurant?

Most definitely I do.

I think the restaurant actions were great, the helpful, courageous Laura in action. Acting on your beliefs in a situation where it mattered. A child’s life matters. As much as a hell joke? Nah, surely not.

Surely so!  A child's life is a physical thing that is of utmost importance.  People's spiritual lives and the final state of their soul is just as important to me.

People are going to make hell jokes all the time, why should you be bothered enough to even comment? Does it matter what other people think and say about hell, to you?

I've answered this earlier.

since I know it's an actual real place

I’m not going into this one, and I bet you don’t want to either.

Oh yes I did and have gone there.

I feel the need for all to agree with God, period.


quote] It doesn’t matter to me whether hell exists or not:

This does not compute for me.


~Laura

[Sela]

Hi RM:

Since you titled this including "or whomever" I thought I'd add my 2 cents.  Hope that's ok.

I did appologise to you over on the "anything" thread.  Maybe you didn't see it or our posts crossed??

Sela

[portia guest]

Okay I sense you want to do this so I’ll bite! Why not eh? On the other hand I could go and get on with my stuff, which I need to do, but no, I choose to engage I guess (I wonder why? – question to self).

in the case of this one, the person ended up in HELL

I think you’re missing the joke maybe?

He didn’t end up in hell, it was a misunderstanding. He was in Florida, where it’s hot. The joke is about misunderstanding, it’s not a joke about hell as such.

Nor do I think anyone who is in hell would be communicating with someone on the earth and if they were, they wouldn't be finding their own fate to be a joking or laughing matter.  Again, this is how I view things.

I think you misunderstood the joke?

Yep, cause I wouldn't want anyone to think that hell is pretend and something to laugh at; for if that be the case, and they think it isn't real, they might just live their lives in a frivolous way and have to find out that it IS real.  I care too much about people's eternities to not speak up and point out truth in this one.

You can care about me and worry that because I don’t believe I might go to hell. That’s your choice. It doesn’t affect me. I have free will and the right to choose for myself.

It’s your truth Laura, it’s not my truth. We are both human and fallible.

People's spiritual lives and the final state of their soul is just as important to me.

My soul is just fine. Your soul is fine too. What’s the problem? You want to impose your views on my soul?

I feel the need for all to agree with God, period.

No problem. But will you act to impose your view on others? I think I’d let God handle that. God’s (presumably) bigger than all us feeble humans and I bet He can deal with our problems better than we can.

I’d leave what others believe about hell, heaven, spirituality etc - to God. I think we have enough trouble and enough to keep us busy trying to stop humans from killing and hurting each other without worrying about other people’s spirits. Let’s deal with the practical and everyday and leave the hereafter to those who know better?

What do you say? I hope you don’t think I’m trying to get you to think my way, I’m not. What I’d like is for you to see my point of view and accept that it is my point of view. You have yours, I have mine, live and let live and if you don’t like a joke or a quote, turn the other cheek, there are more important battles to fight.

It doesn’t matter to me whether hell exists or not:
This does not compute for me.

I know. Just like hell, as a reality, doesn’t compute for me. I just gotta accept your beliefs for you and you might want to accept mine for me?

But as for the subject which started this exchange.....you didn't get the joke I think??

[reallyME]

Oh, I got it, I just didn't find it real funny

[mudpuppy]

Guess I'll toss a couple of cents in here too.

I believe hell is a real place where souls are tormented for eternity.
However, I'm not sure why that means we can't laugh at jokes about it.
Laughing about something and trivializing it are not necessarily one and the same.

I have heard jokes about a great many terrible things that were pretty darned funny.

mud

[Certain Hope]

Hi,

Disclaimer:  My comments have nothing to do with the specific joke in question or the people who have responded to it so far. I've just been thinking about some events in my own life that've related to the use of humor and what might be the best way to handle it when I personally find it offensive.

I think that the way humor affects me often depends on my relationship with the people using it, first of all. As with criticism, sarcasm, and a # of other 'isms, if I know that the person truly cares for me and for others in general, I'm far more likely to take it all in stride. Another factor in my own reaction is....  I'd be more inclined to make a judgment call and make a potentially negative response if I knew that the person using humor (deemed by me to be inappropriate~ yes, that would involve making a judgement) claimed to be a disciple of Christ. Case in point ~  I have a couple family members who profess to be devout Christians, yet they make allowance for themselves to revel in humor what I think most people would consider off-color, at best. Not only do they enjoy the garbage, they have, in the past, chosen to direct it my way via email or one on one contact. In the case of my brother, who is about an 8 on an npd scale of 1-10, I specifically told him that I do not want to receive any more of his idea of humor in my inbox. He has never written again. That was 3 years ago. I think I reacted more strongly in his case because I have a lifelong history of experience with his phoniness, his lies, his self-aggrandizing malarcky, his personal insults toward me, etc. I found it repulsive that he chose to assail me via email with this crud that so totally went against his persona as a learned Christian scholar and teacher of a Bible class.  
   In another instance, a man whom I was dating at the time used to visit the Christian chatroom where I was involved in a counseling ministry. He liked to "whisper" me behind the scenes (in a P.M.) and I enjoyed that interaction when the room was slow. But once, during a particularly intense session with a young pregnant girl, I told him that I couldn't handle the distraction at the time because I needed to stay focused on the discussion at hand. His reply:  "Tell her to go get an abortion, so you and I can talk."
At that moment, he was history. Judgemental of me?  You bet.  The guy claimed to be a Christian, but obviously that was just a title he carried when it suited him. I've found that people often reveal their true colors in the sort of humor to which they're attracted, so I heed that well.
   As to the joke in question at the moment... I saw it, but had zero reaction. Actually, I'd heard it before, so didn't even finish reading...  but it did strike me as funny the first time I heard it. I don't know whether I should have taken offense at the frivolous reference to hell... maybe so, but I didn't. And I wonder why I didn't. I agree with RM that hell is not a joking matter. In fact, there's a tv commercial running lately... some celebrity who ends up in hell but then gets a special delivery of some breath freshening product and winds up in a hellish version of heaven.  The ad depicts a goat with a unicorn's horn, in this all-white version of what hell with breath-freshener would be like .... and yeah, I find that offensive. A Scripture comes to mind when I see that... Galatians 6:7 ~ Be not deceived, God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man sows, he will reap.

I'm not going to argue the veracity of the principle of absolute truth here, but I do feel compelled to not stand mute and allow RM to defend it alone. I believe that there is one truth, one way, and one ultimate Judge. I also believe that an integral part of representing Jesus Christ is to have a heart for "the lost" and mourn for those who will ultimately be consigned to the place of eternal torment if they reject the Saviour. This isn't about the joke. It's about RM's perceived need to stand up for the truth as she knows it. There was a time not so long ago when I would have deemed a person foolish to even speak of such an insignificant thing as a little joke, but considering all that is going on in this world around us, I'm thinking it's not so foolish to take alot of things more seriously. It is my belief that the Holy Spirit of God leads His children to stand against the tide of popular opinion, even when it costs them popularity or more. I think it would be quite narrow minded of me to presume that the Holy Spirit wouldn't bother to urge RM to speak up about something like a joke referencing hell. Anyhow, I'm glad you did speak up, RM. I've learned something and I appreciate your faithfulness.
Hope
  

[Sela]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hoppy)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

So sorry about your friend.    That can't be easy for you to watch.  My prayers for you and her tonight.

And thankyou Hops, from a deep place in my heart and Sugarre too.

CH:

Whatsoever a man sows, he will reap

.

Indeed. 

Sela

[reallyME]

Sugarre, that wasn't funny either

[mudpuppy]

Acidic sarcasm is not very nice, nor does it seem to be your strong suit.


mud

[Hopalong]

Whoops ... busted.
I'm sorry, guys.

I had posted an offended post about how I was offended about people being offended.

!!!  !!!

Thought I deleted it PDQ but often my foot's halfway down my gullet before I start coughing.

Anyhow, hope you know I love all y'all.
Was just having a rough time about my friend, and...The Unfairness of Life. Etc.

Chilled out by going down to our historic outdoor-cafe area, had a veggie burger and a cold beer, watching the parade of sweaty strollers, patted a few GREAT dogs (did I ever tell you my first husband was a huge ol' yellow Lab who got put in the pound because he was a lousy hunter?  His name was Big. Sweetest thing on four legs. Lord, I loved that animal). Got back on the better side of myself.

Hops

[portia guest]

How about this one?

One bright, beautiful Sunday morning, everyone in tiny Anytown got up early and went to the local church. Before the service started, the townspeople were sitting in their pews and talking about their lives, their families, and so on.

Suddenly, Satan appeared at the front of the church.

Everyone started screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in a frantic effort to get away from evil incarnate. Soon everyone had left the church except for an elderly gentleman who sat calmly in his pew, not moving, seemingly oblivious to the fact that God's ultimate enemy was in his presence.

Now, this confused Satan a bit, so he walked up to the man and said, "Hey! Don't you know who I am?"

The man replied, "Yep, sure do."

Satan asked, "Aren't you afraid of me?"

"Nope, sure ain't," said the man.

Satan was a little perturbed at this and queried, "Why aren't you afraid of me?"

The man calmly replied, "I've been married to your sister for 25 years."

[reallyME]

Well, I have to say that I found THAT joke funny and I've heard it before too.  Why?  cause it was about REALITY...there are some people who are serving the devil by their lives who need to get their act together and would be considered the sister or wife of the devil for sure!  Not that I think the person's eternal state being at stake is funny, but until people change that is just how it seems.

[mudpuppy]

Our pastor has used that one, or a slight variant thereof. Got a good laugh.

mud