Finally met b/f's psychiatrist... not sure about her help

[Certain Hope]

PB, about this:

   "Being loyal is about backing up your partner when the partner is in conflict with someone else [I would also add when they're in conflict with themselves  ]."

My question is, if my partner is in conflict with himself and my responsibility is to be loyal and back him up, umm.... which "him" do I support?  The "himself" who best reflects qualities that I personally find desireable? And what if that's not ultimately the best for the "real him"?  I think I vote for letting the therapist do the therapy and just offering two listening ears when invited.
With love,
Hope

[Hopalong]

PB,
I think you're asking brave questions.

I don't know the ultimate answers, and the CoD label doesn't matter. What would matter would be if any of that turns on a lightbulb...

and you are really reallly battling to see clearly.

I know you're going to reach some deep insight.
And I don't think you are doomed to eternal loneliness.

(((((PB)))))

Hops

[WRITE]

By the way, when he got off the Effexor, he became abusive to me (Angry over small things, condescending, short-tempered, difficult to be around).  So I was thinking about leaving the relationship because I didn't want to be around him anymore, I needed to protect myself.  So was it kind or not to communicate this to him?  Which I did, btw.

I think it is perfectly reasonable and desirable to communicate to your partner that his behaviour is affecting you, but maybe because I have had a few years of people pushing meds onto me I would say it's his problem to address that. The answer may indeed be effexor but it's his solution to work out.

The behaviours you describe above are very like my mood disorder, I have found I need other people to back off whilst I get calm and work out what I need to do.

I also think from the other side- although you want to be committed to the relationship, you have to have your own boundaries and limits and you don't have to tolerate being abused, or even being in an unsatisfactory relationship for any length of time. You have your own needs too.

For me, the most loving thing I could do for my family was ask my husband to move out, as I saw my life passing by with so little change or progress for him even when he was trying, and so little reward or happiness for me, I was becoming bitter and angry and not helping any of us.

If your partner has a chronic mental illness this is something for you to consider at length before you marry or have children too: there may be years of difficulty and unhappiness whilst he deals with his own problems, it's taken me all these years to manage my bipolar and my ex is still struggling a lot with his Nism.

We always think love overcomes everything but it doesn't overcome frustration and the immense sense of loss when life passes us by unfulfilled.

[Sela]

Hiya Pb:

The problem in our relationship that I see is that this type of behavior (him not being able to express feelings to me, or truly feel all the bad and good ones, and be OK with his FOO stuff) precludes our intimacy, I think.

This sounds like a serious problem.  No wonder you're concerned.   It would be hard to be truly intimate with someone who sounds kind of.....closed up. 

That's a great definition of intimacy by Mia Pellody.  This part got me thinking (and what you added):

Being loyal is about backing up your partner when the partner is in conflict with someone else [I would also add when they're in conflict with themselves 

This does sound like what it means to be loyal, to me, but I feel it requires........here comes the big word again.........reciprocation.

I am as loyal as a German Sheppard until I feel someone is using that.....using me......not doing their share in the relationship or not being loyal too.   Then I get this urge to be loyal to myself.

How about you Pb?  Are you being loyal to yourself?  Must you work and work and strive and strive for this intimacy you speak of.....with your partner who is "not able to express feelings to" you?  That sounds like something that requires a great deal of work and a huge change......developing that ability.

I have to be honest.....it bugs me to hear you speak of marriage in such a case.....where you seem to be only one sharing deep stuff.

My anger, hurt, confusion, etc comes from his wall, partially, but also, me accepting in this information, rather than using my boundaries to deflect it.

I'm sorry Pb, I just think no one should have to deflect anything like this in a healthy relationship.  The key is communicating, not having to protect ourselves.

  By the way, when he got off the Effexor, he became abusive to me (Angry over small things, condescending, short-tempered, difficult to be around).

I'm sorry this happened.  In the time you've been together, it sounds like you've been through quite a bit.

So I was thinking about leaving the relationship because I didn't want to be around him anymore, I needed to protect myself.  So was it kind or not to communicate this to him?  Which I did, btw.

I'm so glad you thought about protecting yourself and expressed this need to him.  Kind or unkind is not as important as staying real when abuse is involved.  Besides, I bet you expressed this as kindly as you could think of.

I am destined to live alone in that case.  Cause I don't think intimacy comes naturally to most.

Isn't it lonely in a relationship where there is little or no intimacy?  How long will you strive for this or wait?

((((((((((((((((((((Pb)))))))))))))))))))

Again, I'm projecting.  I did the same thing.  I hoped.  I tried.  I worked.  I shared.  I did my best to understand and be welcoming..... to listen.....to encourage intimacy between us.

And I felt frustrated, angry, confused, hurt and very much alone after trying for way too long.

Maybe it's nothing like that for you Pb.  I don't know.  I hope not.

Sela

PS:  ((((((((Thankyou Portia))))))).  Nope.  My heart would not let such ancient venom in.

[penelope]

hiya guys,

Thanks for the kind words.  I will take some time to think about this and talk to my T this week.  She's objective and will help me see both sides as well.

hugs,
pb

p.s. we're not planning on having children (he had a vasectomy last year) and there's no rush to get married for any reason.  I would be perfectly happy if we waited this out, maybe take a couple years (or weeks if things don't improve) to see how things evolve, before getting married.  It's just something we talk about.