Cult life and life with an N

[Magnolia44]

I just watched this program on a cult and aferwards I realized that living in a cult is like living with an N.  The truth is distorted, they use charm to keep you sucked in, and it is all about control! What a way to grow up!

[penelope]

I can relate, I've often felt my family is like a cult.  What about you M?

pb

[Magnolia44]

Well, I never thought about it until tonight after I watched that movie.  My dad was very controlling and my step-mother was his little helper and the kids just walked around on egg shells. My dad always tried to get me to see things in ways that were not the truth. I always tried to fight that, but when you are exposed to that day in and day out, some of it rubs off.  The main thing for me was low self-esteem, even though I thought my self esteem was ok. Looking back on it I was taught to fool myself about this..

My primary issue with him is this male domination thing he likes to pull.  It is total bull and I was the only one that stood up to him about these issues and everyone else around me thought I was crazy for doing so.  I have paid a price for doing so as I think I experienced his wrath more so than others and I was traumatized more as well.

Anyway, this whole group think stuff readily applies and yes, these Ns employ brainwashing tactics on those around them when possible. 

I hate them all. I really wish I had known about this earlier in my life so I would have cut them out of my life 10 years ago.

What about you?

[penelope]

yes, 10 yrs ago would have been great!  I'm so thankful for this site...

anyhoo
Part of my therapy is reframing that thinking though.  For example, we worked on the "I stood up to Mom and Dad thought, therefore I was a bad kid"  to:

"I stood up to Mom and Dad, even though I knew they'd rage, therefore I'm courageous and brave."

It is often the scapegoated child that sees through the dysfunction soonest.

[Magnolia44]

Oh yes, the scapegoated child, tis was I.  I take it you were too?  Are you in therapy?

Maggie

[moonlight52]

HI ,

There can be more than 1 adult child that is scapegoated.

M

[Magnolia44]

yep.

[penelope]

yes, I'm in therapy since November.  It has been eyeopening for me.  Painful, but necessary.

In my family the scapegoat is always changing, but the constant thing is there is always a blacksheep.  I have also often felt like the lost child as a kid, but more the scapegoat as an adult.  There are lots of desciptions of these roles in texts, I think the book my T gave me had to do with alcoholic families. 

Therapy is good, I look forward to it now, but at first it was hard to go.  Once you start being honest with yourself, you typically move forward very quickly in therapy.  We've been working on a Timeline of Emotionally signficant events.  I've had to think of these since I was a child, write them down, then the belief I came away with about myself due to the event.

For example:  once when we were kids, parents took us to Montana.  Road trip and my Mom got upset at us and asked the older kids (me and my 2 brothers) to get out of the car.  It was in the middle of no where.  Anyway, Mom took off after we got out and drove a mile or so down the road before she stopped.  You can imagine how that felt, I thought she was leaving us!  Anyway, the belief I came away with was: this family is unstable, people are unreliable, I'm not good enough, the world is a scary undependable place...

I'm not sure, but I somehow think we're going to work on reframing those thoughts into something more positive: like maybe - look how beautiful and peaceful this place is.  The mountains and trees are wonderful, I'm glad I'm here and even if my Mom is pissed off, I can take care of myself.  I'm strong and beautiful too because I live in this great world.

hmmm, I like that thought. 

see, so you can reshape history, and sort of parent yourself.  They're all just memories, might as well make em good ones.   

One thing about doing the timeline that I noticed was - even though a lot of my childhood was painful, there were some positive things and positive beliefs.  Because even really abusive parents are not all bad.  I couldn't remember those before, but now I'm starting to.

pb

[penelope]

self esteem is tricky in N families.  On the one hand, you're taught you're better than everyone else.  so you have that false sense of self-esteem.  But deep down inside you feel worthless and unlovable  because the data that N is sending you keeps saying you're not good.   

[Magnolia44]

yea, I can relate to everything you are saying. I was the lost child and the scapegoat primarily in my family. It sounds like you have a good therapist. How did you find her/him?  I would love to be in therapy, but right now I can not afford it. Have you read any of Anne Wilson Schaef's books?  They are great.

[Hopalong]

I have, Mag!
She wrote one that helped me a lot, Escape from Intimacy (even though I didn't completely buy into this-is-an-addiction model, so many many things she said made a lot of sense to me).

In that book she had a long list of what actual (instead of fantasy-romantic) intimacy would be like. A revelation.

(And something I still have hope for finding, perhaps foolishly.)

Hops

[reallyME]

I don't understand how when your mother drove down the road a ways but came back, caused you to feel all those things.  Didn't you figure she was playing around?  How was this done?  Did she shout threats while doing it?  My mother used to do this to my brother and me, and we just laughed, knowing she would come right back and was just playing.  Please explain so I can feel your situation, Penelope.

Living with N's...cult...most definitely, but I have a question...I have noticed on post after post, people saying how the N's gave you a sense of reality that wasn't the truth.  Have any of you experienced an N who tells you to do something, so you do it, and the next moment, they claim they didn't ever tell you to do it?

Have any of you ever dealt with an N whom you quickly came to realize, didn't even know what SHE/HE wanted, because every time you tried to please them by being "one step ahead" they would look at you with a puzzled look on their faces and not remember telling you to do that thing.

I've discussed this about the N in my life with all of you in past posts that were not approved of.  She told me to go fix my hair, I did, then she said "you don't have to do it just cause I want you to, so if you don't want to, don't."  Then, when I didn't fix it, she said "I can't believe you dont' value yourself enough to do your hair!"  So I fixed it and then when I came out to show her, she said "yeah, so? want a cookie or somethin?"  It was constant mixed messages.  I only bring this back up to give an illustration, so please do not blast me or say that I have not let it all go.  I happen to be well able to even talk with this person on a civil level right now, so there is no bitterness there...just an attempt to let you all understand what I mean.

Thanks

RM

[penelope]

hi maggie & hops,

Thanks for the tip on Anne Wilson Schaef.  Haven't read her but will check her out.

Oh, and I found my current T through the Psychology Today website. 

pb