Author Topic: ripples in the pond  (Read 2031 times)

WRITE

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ripples in the pond
« on: July 27, 2006, 03:36:37 AM »
I told you I had started to tentatively talk to my son and ex about moving towards a divorce.
My ex has reacted rather defensively, and in a few days has gone from saying 'don't change anything yet' to what amounts to I have exploited his generosity!

It's taken every ounce of patience to talk calmly to him tonight and assert myself.
It was sad too, he said 'I've always borrowed your emotions...' and is clearly feeling abandoned though I have done everything to support him and he accepts the marriage is finished.

The most amazing thing is happening though- a calm new strength and doors opening, people giving me support and good feedback. I guess people feel more comfortable to do that the more strong and independent you seem? I never thought about it but I've sometimes been a bit clingy once someone shows me love or attention.

My son and I have fought a lot this week, his father is going all out to set up a different emotional and spiritual climate than I want for us, and this week the negativity and dismissiveness got to me.
We've worked through it, and he's going to be away for a week so I will get some me time too.

I'm going to sort out some of the practical things this week, arrange more work and separate our financial arrangements.

And clean out the house- the clutter is driving me mad!




Certain Hope

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 07:03:39 AM »
Write,

I can see the whole picture and feel the associated emotions. I wish they could feel for themselves as much as we feel for them... such tenderness.
'I've always borrowed your emotions...'    .....that's as aware a statement as I've ever heard from a Narcissist.

Thank God for that calm, new strength. The loving people around you probably do hold back their stronger views until they can see that you're ready for yourself to take the next step. Those who truly care know that it has to be in your time.

You have a busy week ahead. Glad you'll have the quiet time to begin setting some things in order. Taking care of practical matters is something I've always found quite soothing. Yes, cleaning even. Something about doing the "next thing".

Blessings, Write

Hope

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2006, 07:47:05 AM »
Hi Write

I can't imagine what you are going through right now.... Sending you strength at this time.

Love H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

reallyME

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2006, 07:56:01 AM »
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Write: The most amazing thing is happening though- a calm new strength and doors opening, people giving me support and good feedback. I guess people feel more comfortable to do that the more strong and independent you seem? I never thought about it but I've sometimes been a bit clingy once someone shows me love or attention.

Excellent and accurate observation here.

I find that in my own situations where I'm counseling/ministering to someone, if they become clingy and draining, I see that as a chosen "helplessness" pattern, and I begin to want to prod them more to spread their wings.  At times it's warranted and at times, it's more me being impatient and wanting to be "done" with their situation, to be honest with you...so I have to really remain objective and caring during times when I would rather just end the relationship of counsel/ministry, and realize that, since someone stuck by me while I was strengthening my own wings, I need to do the same for them (provided they are not just choosing to "use" me because they like the constant attention, and seem to have no intention of applying info to their lives)

~ReallyME

WRITE

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2006, 12:28:29 PM »
Thank you.

.....that's as aware a statement as I've ever heard from a Narcissist.

it's so frustrating, I will think 'he's got it!' then he about-turns and starts doing the same old thing again. This can go on for years.

I've started suggesting to him he reads many relationship books, becuase there's such a gap between other people's experiences of their feelings and his, and it leads him to tremendous insensitivity.
If he takes it as a quest for knowledge he may read them, but his intransigence against making any changes is like a brick wall.
Even when I say to him, but what you're doing now isn't working, just accepting that is enough to cause too much ambivalence and pain and he starts floundering and blustering about.

I have shared with him my experience of bipolar ( which he touchingly refers to as my 'madness' ) and how I've had to learn to sit with truly uncomfortable feelings rather than act to resolve them, and to medicate the worst ones...

I don't regret taking all this time to try to help, it's in my son's interest plus I don't believe kindness is ever wasted, but I think you can all see by know just how slow and convoluted any kind of progress is. I can't spend my whole life waiting for him to 'wake up'.

Sending you strength at this time.

Thanks H & H.
It feels like a wave of good thoughts are flowing around me, I have learned how to tell people I am struggling without being dependent or demanding, and I now see my way through what seemed insurmountable to untangle 3 years ago.

I have no idea if my ex will resort to nastiness with finances etc. This is a man who has previously shouted and hit me to get his own way. Part of me suspects realistically that it depends on who he hooks up with- if he meets a new woman who fulfills his needs and has a nasty streak ( or even an incredibly naive streak ) I better watch out! But then he has been more consistent the past few years and made some progress, and he said yesterday the only thing he truly delights in is our son, and my son calls his dad on everything.

seem to have no intention of applying info to their lives)

I see it as a gradual transition thing.
If you'd told me 3 years ago, start divorce proceedings, I would have been terrified & unable to move, and my ex would have completely freaked and caused havoc.

It's the general progression overall I suppose, and one thing I did notice was that at my needy stages I also attracted other needy people and I have had to rework my relationships with them too as I have got better.

I'll write a bit more about that later.

Hops

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2006, 12:44:38 PM »
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I think you can all see by know just how slow and convoluted any kind of progress is. I can't spend my whole life waiting for him to 'wake up'.

Write, I am awed...by how fortunate this man has been (after hitting you? Grrrrr!) to have you be as patient and compassionate as you are. As he moves on in his life, he takes with him more opportunity to learn than almost any N could be handed. He may well, like most Ns, regress and not use what you have given him.

But I am so thrilled that you are giving freedom and peace and a new life to yourself.
Quote
his father is going all out to set up a different emotional and spiritual climate than I want for us, and this week the negativity and dismissiveness got to me.

Who can blame you? Very deserved feelings. But now YOU get to set up a new emotional and spiritual climate that will be so positive and nourishing for you and your son, that your son will recognize the contrast. And if he doesn't...it's still the right thing to take care of yourself and liberate yourself from this yoke you've been carrying for so long. Way more than your share.

((((Write))))

Hops



Sela

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 06:06:56 PM »
Hi Write:

Been following your thread without having much of use to add. 

Quote
I don't believe kindness is ever wasted.

This belief is worth it's weight in Gold, I think Write.  I so admire the way you've kept it.

Keeping you in my prayers that this transition will go easily and calmly for everyone involved.

Sela

WRITE

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 02:01:26 AM »
Thank you.

YOU get to set up a new emotional and spiritual climate that will be so positive and nourishing for you and your son, that your son will recognize the contrast

yes, I think part of our clashing this week is I am being more assertive about that.

I am so tired of getting my beliefs trashed, my ex may not see what an abusive thing that he is doing ( 'well it's all nonsense...' ) but I'm not tolerating my son growing up that way.

This belief is worth it's weight in Gold, I think Write.  I so admire the way you've kept it.

it was the only pragmatic thing to do, he always follows my lead so if I'm bitter/ angry/ mean he just joins in.

It is what I mean most about being Christian though- being kind and loving even if it's from behind a reinforced screen!

They will both be away for a week soon, then I can relax and focus on myself totally for a few days.

Certain Hope

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 09:01:33 AM »
Write,

Re:  .....that's as aware a statement as I've ever heard from a Narcissist.

That's bothered me ever since I hit "post". I never meant to imply that his statement re: borrowing your emotions was an awareness that could be expected to lead to positive change. It's more like an awareness of the mechanics of how he functions, maybe, but that's about it. It's said that the first step for an alcoholic is admitting that he has a problem. Whether or not he chooses to deal with that problem is another matter entirely. For N.... I'm not sure he even has the tools. And Write... about his claim that it's all nonsense... ... well, when a person demands worship of himself, there's no room for another "god", is there? Humility seems to be an impossible, irrational concept to N who would choose despair over humbling himself.

Sorry if I left the impression that there was some great sign of progress here to be waited on, Write.

With love,
Hope

WRITE

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Re: ripples in the pond
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 09:45:45 AM »
Sorry if I left the impression that there was some great sign of progress here to be waited on, Write.

no, I don't take it that way either! Not any more.

I love that he can get that far, but I am now disentangling and it's up to him to take the next steps as you say.

There are 2 things which stand well in his favour, maybe 3:

my son is a horrid mirror for him now, he reflects the distortions right back and will not back down no matter what daddy says or does!;

he has done some kind and loving things in his life, much more often than the miserable cruel things ( which have mostly been targeted to me )

he hates self-pity, as a trait, so he'll possibly be motivated against wallowing for too long- if he sees his indignation and responses that way and not as totally justified...humility is so painful to this guy, even a statement like 'I met the cleverest person last week' can undo him!

Thanks for coming back and making sure I'm not jumping right back in: but yes, at last I see the time to move on! I won't be going back.