Author Topic: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)  (Read 3055 times)

jordanspeeps

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more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« on: August 10, 2006, 07:51:42 PM »
Hey guys,

I cut and pasted some interesting facts from a website I found extremely helpful and eye-opening to me.  Most of this stuff, we veterened “old heads” know already, but I think it’s great for newbies to have as much info as possible when learning about NPD and the craziness that accompanies it.   

Happy reading!!

from:
http://www.operationdoubles.com/narc/

Here are some red flags:
putting on an ostentatious display of goodness and kindness  
damaging the images of others  
a history of past upheavals  
being hated for mysterious reasons by people close to them  
perplexing behavior — backwards reactions to things  
trampling privacy/boundaries and being a control-freak  
extreme self-absorption  ·
hostile reaction to attention and credit given others
reacting with contempt to what should evoke sympathy  
reacting with aversion to what should attract  
reacting with anger to what should please  
getting angrier in reaction to what should appease (Narcissistic Rage)  

Narcissists go to extraordinary lengths to portray themselves as the very opposite of what they are. They cover every dirty deed with a grand display that makes them seem like the kind of person who would never do such a thing. This diabolical behavior is so characteristic of them that, if you know a person is a narcissist, you can tell what she's done in the dark from she does in the light of day

Projection is just a new name for an old thing, scapegoating. It's the oldest trick in The Book. It's a kind of baptism = a mud bath people give their betters, by rubbing themselves off on them. Here's how it works.

Got a guilty conscience? Say to yourself, "I'm not so bad." Then look around for somebody who's worse. Say, "I'm not as bad as so-and-so." But guess what? You don't look around for somebody who really has that fault and has it worse than you. You look for somebody with very little mud on his name, somebody who looks cleaner than you, preferably somebody who has the corresponding virtue instead of that fault.

 For Example: If you're stingy, you look around for somebody with a reputation for generosity, because generosity in your neighbor puts your stinginess to shame by serving as a foil that (by contrast) makes your stinginess more noticeable. Then you smear your vice off on him. You tell everybody that he's stingy. You make everything he does sound stingy.

Thus you kill two birds with one stone: you rid yourself of your stinginess and him of his generosity. Not. But looks are everything, and Truth doesn't matter, and this fraud makes you look good by comparison with him. Ah, cheating is much easier than freeing yourself of sin the legitimate way, by repentance.

True, your own sins don't take away your right to condemn them in others, but when you condemn NOTHING BUT your own sins in others, you are just absolving yourself of your own sins and therefore have no credibility. So, the dead-giveaway of projection is what the finger-pointer does NOT holler about.

 The worst thing about projection is that mud sticks best to a clean spot. I'm sure that people who do this think they're clever, but it's childsplay. Send a muddy child into an unsupervised school yard and wait to see what happens. He will rub himself off on every cleaner, smaller child he can find, till they are all crying and he looks good by comparison.

Looks good by comparison. Those are the all-important words. The hypocrite makes himself look good by comparison with others. He does that the easy way — by making others look bad. This is the root of envy. Which is NOT a rare motive for what people say about others. It's a common motive.

They become living, breathing Projection Machines. Projection becomes such a knee-jerk reflex that a narcissist accuses his victim of doing to him the very thing (or essentially the same thing) as he is in the very act of doing to the victim. This creates bizarre scenes that make you wonder whether the narcissist is hallucinating or tripping out on psychedelic drugs. You feel like Alice in Wonderland. You have to pinch yourself and wonder whether "it's me or him that is crazy."

Another big difference between narcissists and normal people when they're projecting on you is that narcissists expect you to share their delusion. Yes! You cannot help but perceive this as gaslighting. Narcissists try to make you be what they say you are because, like a psychopath, they view you as an object, not as a human person with perceptions and a mind of your own.* They view you as an extension of themselves (like a tool) to control. It is the moral equivalent of the control a rapist thinks he has over the body of another, whom he views as but an object, an extension of himself, an executioner of his will. Psychologists call this bizarre behavior projective identification, a defense mechanism. The narcissist wants you to identify with the image he projects on you. You are a mirror to reflect his fantasy, so he pressures you to behave as though it is real.

Behave is the key word. Narcissists do not connect with reality: appearances are all that matter in their world. So, you can lay out your grievances to a narcissist in a letter to let him know what you think, but if tomorrow you encounter him and act as though none of it happened, he is perfectly satisfied.

Though allowing a narcissist to get away with it is a big mistake, people do this because of their GOOD qualities. Indeed, the narcissist preys on the good qualities of normal, decent people. It is their GOODNESS that betrays them. That's because normal, decent people don't like to fight. Also, they are rational and therefore know that the narcissist himself is the one degraded by the stupid game he plays, not them. Moreover, they have self-respect, so they can't bring themselves to stoop to the level he brings an argument down to. So, they rise above it, allowing the overgrown child to have his way in treating them without respect. Thus, they spoil the brat, teaching him that his tactics work.

 They allow the narcissist the lower set of standards he needs, expecting no better behavior from him. Quite correctly, they see that he is inferior and incapable of better behavior. But there is a terrible pitfall in thus allowing him to relate to them inappropriately, as though he deserves all attention and they are insignificant. Thus, the whole family engages in tragic role playing that insidiously stamps its face on their character.

Narcissists know that pure malevolence is hateful and gives people the creeps. So they are desperate to keep its presence in them a secret. That is why they invest so much energy in the false image of themselves they carve out with everything they do and say.

Even more telling is what he did to prevent others present from paying attention to each other. Narcissists know that this is easy to do. You just stifle any conversation people try to have. He brought a radio to the kitchen table. When that didn't suffice, he broke up conversation by hijacking it with some obnoxious statement he butted in with — something too obnoxious to pass over or ignore, something that sucked all attention to himself.

 Unless he is a "doting" narcissist who inundates his children with critical attention to improve them, he pays none to them at all. He never plays with them. He is disinterested in their grades, activities, aspirations, social lives, majors, degrees, professions, and problems. As often as anybody tries to inform him about these things, he forgets them. He never sends anyone on this planet a card or a letter. He never gets anyone on this planet a gift. (When absolutely necessary, he has his wife, his sister, his daughter, or his secretary get it for him.) He never comforts a grieving person. He sheds no tear for any other human person, though he readily sheds tears for the flickers of light on a television or movie screen.

Unfortunately, people suffering from NPD aren't the only ones who do this. But you will find that a malignant narcissist cannot resist a chance to get away with doing it. My own observations make me think that they are ever on the lookout for an opportunity. I think they instantly notice whenever the coast is clear and — zap — do it almost reflexively, like machines. Unlike normal people, they will do it to ANYONE. Conversely, normal people have some reason for hostility toward the person they target with abuse. They therefore do it for natural motives of retaliatory defense or revenge. But a narcissist's motive is unnatural. It's the bottomless motive of pure malice, so he or she selects their targets on the basis of vulnerability. Indeed, narcissists most often abuse their own children, brothers and sisters, lovers, best friends, and benefactors.

Why the malice? Just because that other person has a little of what the narcissist views as ALL belonging to him — worth, dignity, and self respect. He must have it ALL. And anybody else who gets any is depriving him of it.

Narcissists are so hooked on their drug, so in need of getting it all, that they fight off temptations to show any regard for anybody else. This explains their most perplexing behavior.

The stronger the temptation, the harder they must fight to fight it off. This is why they react violently to moments that strongly call for attention/regard/humanity to others. The strongest calls are those heart-rending ones for love — those that compel sorrow, compassion, affection, sympathy, and what the Italians call piéta. They react to such a call like somebody being burned at the stake reacts to a flame. They fight it off as though it were an attack on them, as though it were a vampire's attempt to suck their life blood.

A malignant narcissist is a joker whose favorite trick is to pull an identity-switch with the victim. Before you know it, he has you sympathizing with "poor-little-meek-and-sensitive" him and censoring instead, the victim . . . for not just letting him get away with whatever he did. The joke's on you, and the narcissist is laughing up his sleeve at you for being so easy to impregnate with absurdities. Don't let him sneak garbage into your head. Don't let him confuse humanity with human and confuse the noun human with adjective human. It's a shell game with words. Inhumanity isn't human. By definition, treating others with inhumanity is having no humanity. So, their dehumanization (through acts their twisted minds think dehumanize their victim) is their doing, not anybody else's. Sympathy for such a predator is as inappropriate as sympathy for the mythological character of the devil would be.  

The narcissist never tires of this imbecile game. But you will run out of patience with it fast. There are three things never to forget while interacting with him:
The person inside this adult is a damaged three-year-old.  
He views you as an object to exploit for his self-aggrandizement without regard for your feelings and welfare.  
He is acting on alien premises.  

Are they to blame?
In a word, yes. I hold that opinion for the same reason the courts do: because narcissists can, and do, control their conduct:
·
They are one person to those who can fight back or get away from them and another to the trapped and defenseless.  
·
They are one person in the light of day and another in the dark.  
·
They act-out a charade to portray themselves as the opposite of what they really are.  

That proves they know that what they're doing is wrong (or they wouldn't hide it), and they can keep from doing it when the coast ain't clear. Sounds like guilt to me. How about you?

Consider what comes packaged in the attention he can never get enough of and denies others: regard, appreciation, consideration, respect, courtesy, gratitude, deference, apologies, affection, praise, acceptance, understanding, compassion, empathy and love.  These things are the stuff of human relations.

from:
http://www.operationdoubles.com/narc/

Bones

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 08:40:25 PM »
Yep!  That sounds a lot like my Nmother, Nbrother and ex-12-Step-sponsor who also turned out to be an N.

Bones

gratitude28

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 08:47:38 PM »
Quote
reacting with contempt to what should evoke sympathy 

My cousin died from a heart attack at 51... "Well, he did drugs and never took care of himself."

My Grandfather got cancer and was fighting it... to the family, "You may as well accept he's not going to fight it for long. He'll die soon."

A friend's daughter was obsessively pulling out her eyelashes, "They are awful parents (their best friends!!!). They messed her up." My parents reaction to my sister and I being bulimic... ignore it. At least we weren't fat.

Basically, any tragedy that happens is the victim's fault according to my parents. It has caused me to have an ugly tape in my head that I am still overriding (it's diminished a lot!!!).

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Bones

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 08:55:54 PM »
This reminds me of a conversation that took place between my Nmother and myself when the My Lai Massacre became public knowledge.  I was upset and outraged that so many innocent people were murdered.  My Nmother's response?  She called them "Communists who deserved what they got"!!!  Totally ignored the fact that even babies, toddlers and other young children were murdered!!!!!  Sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bones

gratitude28

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 09:05:11 PM »
Hey Bones!
We must be related...
And on top of it, my sponsior also turned out to be an N. I am waiting for her to move before I go to meetings regularly again. I can't bear her. Her program is the only "right way." She deplores everyone who is not following her path and looks down at everyone. I try to go to newcomer meetings to give them a sense of what the program SHOULD be...
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Bones

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 09:15:37 PM »
Hey Bones!
We must be related...
And on top of it, my sponsior also turned out to be an N. I am waiting for her to move before I go to meetings regularly again. I can't bear her. Her program is the only "right way." She deplores everyone who is not following her path and looks down at everyone. I try to go to newcomer meetings to give them a sense of what the program SHOULD be...
Love, Beth

Thanks, Beth!

I hear ya!  One time, I went on a fishing trip with her and her husband.  When she didn't catch as much fish as her husband and me, she suddenly got "sick" and insisted on leaving the fishing site.  Once we got back on land, then she miraculously "recovered" from her illness and then went into a sulk.  As I continued in my recovery, I began to sense something wasn't quite right around 1995.  I was sharing a fun experience of watching "Les Miserables in Concert" with the Dream Cast and instead of listening, she started whining that SHE should be considered "miserable".  Huh??????  The final straw came when I caught on that she had been lying to me about a lot of things, cheated on her husband, lied to him and put my name to the lie and when I caught her in her lies, she attempted to JUSTIFY lying to me!!!!!  I pointed out to her that the 12-Step Program requires RIGOROUS HONESTY and then fired her as my sponsor.  Occasionally, she attempts to send me e-mail fishing for sympathy and I respond with a quote from a now-deceased sponsor who had about 50+years of sobriety when he died.  She don't like to hear that and I no longer indulge her.

Bones

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 09:29:04 PM »
Yikes!!  The one jumped out at me, too.....the one about what should be sympathy, becomes contempt?  The management team, me, bookkeeper and bookkeepers friend.  Well, bookkeepers friend got our business started on the right track..............great lady.  So she gets a brain tumor about a month ago and it is malignant and she probably will die within a year..........my nmom said, "Well, if she wasn't sick I was probably going to let her go because SHE told ME that she was going to cut back to one day a week!"  (Well, the reason the lady said she was going to cut back to one day a week was because she was sick...........................)  So you see, our dying employee gets contempt because she had the audacity to tell my nmom she was going to cut back to one day a week!!  DON'T GET ME STARTED!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

gratitude28

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 10:35:50 PM »
Of course if it is the N is who is sick/suffering... or anyone that he/she sees as an authority... it is the WORST thing that has ever happened in the world...
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Overcomer

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 11:26:30 PM »
Oh, no, not my nmom...............she denies she is even sick.  She had breast cancer and she minimized it to the nth degree.  After all, what would people think if we were not perfect?  perfect people cannot be conquered with sickness...............therefore, I will come into work with the flu and infect the whole crew...............what would people think if I called in sick?  I wouldn't be perfect?
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

moonlight52

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 11:54:43 PM »
Bingo   Being hated for mysterious reasons by people close to them


My N dad has already had one daughter and her family  leave him .

I  have as little to do with him as possible. How do others view him?????????????????
No telling what he sez about me

I do not hate him he is just a toxic person .
I will never be alone in a room with him or let my daughters be in a room alone with him.
My twin brother wanted to die young he did on a motor cycle at 27
Other sis lives alone sees no one
my mom she was kind passed soon after my twin passed
none of my n dad children mean anything to him
destuctive n no doubt about it

time to make lemoade



moon
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 12:05:22 AM by moonlight52 »

gratitude28

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2006, 12:11:51 AM »
reacting with aversion to what should attract 

Here's another my mother loves... since she is the expert on everything.
"I can't decide if that girl is prettty."
"I don't care what people say, she is ugly."
"Others may think... but I think it's stupid."
"Anyone who criticizes Hemingway's work is an idiot."
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Certain Hope

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2006, 07:47:00 AM »
Tiffany,

  Thank you for providing this info!

This is what kept me stuck for so very long:  Narcissists go to extraordinary lengths to portray themselves as the very opposite of what they are. They cover every dirty deed with a grand display that makes them seem like the kind of person who would never do such a thing. This diabolical behavior is so characteristic of them that, if you know a person is a narcissist, you can tell what she's done in the dark from she does in the light of day

I simply could not imagine a person demonstrating such opposites, especially in such a flamboyant, overdone manner... a grand display, yes. All for show. Diabolical indeed! The description of projection given here is the best I've ever read... mud sticking to the clean spots. Yes, it's all about envy. Not only is N jealous of what you have, she would rather destroy "it" altogether than to get "it" for herself and allow you to keep "it", too. "He must have it ALL. And anybody else who gets any is depriving him of it."  That is ultimate envy.

And this gave me chills: 

  Behave is the key word. Narcissists do not connect with reality: appearances are all that matter in their world. So, you can lay out your grievances to a narcissist in a letter to let him know what you think, but if tomorrow you encounter him and act as though none of it happened, he is perfectly satisfied.

Never again. If someone refuses to get real and stay that way, he/she can live in illusion without me. No more aiding and abetting the "keep up appearances at all costs" mentality. Thank you so much, Tiffany. I think this would be a good post to add to the other board, as well, so it's there for reference long after the discussion/replies are done.

Love,
Hope

jordanspeeps

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2006, 09:32:35 AM »
hey you all,

I'm glad this sparked something for you guys.  The site helped me tons.  There a "get real" aspect to it that jolts me back into reality every time I read it, which I need to from time to time when I get blind-sided by a confusing sneak attack by the Ns in my life.  I cut and pasted a little more on the games Ns play and the common tactics they use.  I hope the volume of reading doesn't absolutely annoy, but there's a lot of good, true, stuff there. 

Have a good Friday, y'all
Tiff

The Rat Game
 You can take a bunch of lab rats, put them in a cage, and equip it with a button that delivers a treat when they push it. Soon those rats will learn to push it like crazy. Then alter the button so it sometimes delivers a painful electric shock instead of a treat. Those rats still keep pushing it. Fix it so that it almost always delivers a painful shock. Ditto. Fix it so it always delivers a painful shock. Ditto. Long after pushing the button never delivers a treat, those rats keep pushing that button till it kills them.

 Sound familiar? If you're the victim of narcissistic abuse it should. This is what narcissists do to you.

 The treat is some positive judgment they bestow on you. From what I've seen, it's usually a presumptuous judgment that you should reject simply because they aren't your superior or your god. But when that presumptuous judgment happens to be a favorable one, most people don't mind.

The Teeter-Tot game
I call it the Teeter Totter Game. Raise yourself by lowering somebody else. In other words, aggrandize yourself by devaluing somebody else. Demean them as much as possible, because the closer you come to treating them like dirt, the more you boost yourself.

So, a narcissist doesn't play the Teeter Totter Game with everybody all the time. Only those he abuses. These are mainly the vulnerable, the targets of his envy and ingratitude, and those who cannot just get and stay away from him = those trapped in a crucible with him, through attachment and/or dependence.

In interactions with the person he devalues, the narcissist denies many things, like acknowledgment of rights, credit, gratitude, and so forth. But these are just different ways of denying that person gratification.

Somebody grieving or depressed who needs comfort or somebody to talk to will see him acting as though he can't stay far enough away from them and come right out and ask for comfort, a shoulder to cry on, or somebody to talk to. This appeal would prompt a normal person to give it up. But it prompts a narcissist to withhold like a child withholds a toy that another child asks for: He wraps both arms around it tightly and clutches it close to himself, yelling "No!"

 In other words, he reacts hostilely to an appeal for consideration, as if it were a hostile act. Those who live with narcissists get mighty sick of this. Sooner or later they make confrontational requests for the consideration it would kill him to give. "Was the meal good? Did you like it? Would it kill you say so?" "You have never said you loved me. Do you?" "I really need somebody to talk to and I have no one else. Can't you listen for a minute?" The more forceful the demand for his attentions, the more violently he repulses it. At this point he will almost always fly into a Narcissistic Rage. In a narcissist who has abused his mind for decades, it may be so infantile that it even includes bawling (i.e., uttering no words, just roaring to drown you out), covering his ears, squeezing his eyes shut tight, and stamping his feet.

This explains why narcissists usually treat their own immediate family worst: There are few outside his immediate family whom the narcissist dares treat like dirt. So, his spouse and children are valuable to him for this use. They are worth every penny it costs to support them, because he gets the biggest step up on them.

Avoiding Eye contact
We cannot help but sense, not only the put-down, but also the hostility in this behavior. That's because greeting behaviors to establish an encounter as that between friends or foes is hard-coded into the genes of all animals. So, it's unwise to go against our instincts and into denial about how this treatment makes us feel. That narcissist is not only saying, "You are beneath my notice," he is withholding the customary greeting of Good morning (short for May you have a good morning) or the like — an expression of goodwill. So, this withholding is actually an expression of aggression that we should pay attention to our instincts about.

Devaluing help
So, narcissists suck your attentions and help, but they never ask for it, and they never accept it when offered. In their world, a work of fiction, they need nothing. Also, they don't pay their way. That is, they deny you what they owe you in return for your attentions and help — credit for what you've done, gratitude, appreciation. Then these deadbeats view your wanting what they owe you as (of all things) NEEDINESS in you!

The game narcissists play is so highly nuanced and duplicitous that I should mention an exception here. If you are staying away from a narcissist, he will ask your help. He will trump up some emergency to justify calling you for help. But he will play you like a fish on the line.  

Such tortuously twisted thinking is not just reckless abuse of the brain, it's diabolical. By never paying their debts of gratitude, they make you thus "need" what you've got coming. Then, of course, "needy" you is just "tapping them out" by wanting too much gratification. My own observations lead me to believe that narcissists actually have a great (almost panicky) fear of ever having to admit that they need or want anything. Or ever having to express gratitude. They act as though that would be a horrible degradation. The truth is that there is nothing in them to tap out: they're morally bankrupt. So, you might as well try to get blood from a turnip. The families of narcissists get so sick of this that they just let the pathetic brat pass as a charity case. He's the one who needs a free ride.
  
 And so, infinitely needy Narcissus twists it all as usual — so thoroughly that he deludes himself into thinking he needs nothing from the inferior, human beings around him who always need something from him. He is self-sufficient like God = he cannot ask for anything, and he cannot say "Thank you." (Yes, I know that makes him more impotent than omnipotent, but this is his twisted logic, not mine.) An infant whose whole world is but a collection of objects that revolve around him, he manipulates them to behave as though his delusion is true (projective identification). That means you. To support his grandiose delusion, you must make sure he never needs to ask for anything. You must divine or anticipate his needs. In other words, God is an infant who needs your mothering but can't tell you what he wants.

Over-thanking
When I observed over-thanking, it usually seemed a case of protesting too much. For example, if you confront a narcissist with his behavior, he has nothing to say for himself. He acts deaf, as if his unhearing them annihilates your words. But later you often hear an echo. For example, say you confront him about never saying "thank you." Later he thanks you profusely for some little thing. For days. He "proves" that your accusation was false by gobbing this make-up on his image really thick over that spot. Then he goes back to being himself — an ingrate.  
  
Another time he shifts gears is when the situation changes. If he fears abandonment (by you or whomever he currently lives with), he will suddenly start flattering you and thanking you to death for things. You will suddenly become the greatest person in the world. That's because, like any parasite, he cannot survive without a host. Don't fall for it.

 Of course the main way narcissists devalue work, abilities, and achievements is by total blindness to them. As if that annihilates them. Get wild applause compared to him and he will be totally unaware of that. Though his knife will be in your back the next day. For, by shining you have diminished the glow of his glory

 For example, let's say you are victimized by some powerful person or institution in a way that would outrage any normal friend or loved one. Some travesty of justice or affront to basic human rights. Maybe it's an unscrupulous employer or an employer covering up malfeasance in high places to avoid bad publicity. Maybe it's a religious institution suckering you with dirty tricks to falsely incriminate you, the victim of a crime, in order to avoid a lawsuit when you find out that it has no intention of dealing with the criminal in its ranks. Maybe it's a bully in the workplace. Maybe you were raped by a powerful and important businessman who buys off authorities. In any case, expect no comfort or support from a narcissist. He will not acknowledge that you have any rights that were violated. In fact, to rub your face in this zero valuation of you, the narcissist will stay, or get, on good terms with that employer, institution or person.

Talking in the middle of sentences
 His perceptions were so dulled that he was oblivious to what was going on. How oblivious? So oblivious that he would start a conversation in the middle of it. By this I mean that he said things that made no sense except in the context of some non-existent conversation. The effect was like you'd get if actors on stage skipped the opening part of a scene, and one of them started on a line in the middle of a speech halfway through. When this happened, it was obvious that his perceptions were so dim he was failing to distinguish between reality and some fantasy conversation with you that had been occurring in his mind. In the middle of that fantasy, he'd just suddenly start saying his lines out loud, as though you should know what the heck he was talking about. A person's senses/perceptions can't get any duller than that.

DreamSinger

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2006, 11:16:30 AM »



And this gave me chills: 

  Behave is the key word. Narcissists do not connect with reality: appearances are all that matter in their world. So, you can lay out your grievances to a narcissist in a letter to let him know what you think, but if tomorrow you encounter him and act as though none of it happened, he is perfectly satisfied.

Never again. If someone refuses to get real and stay that way, he/she can live in illusion without me. No more aiding and abetting the "keep up appearances at all costs" mentality...
Love,
Hope



Yes, yes, yes!  Thank you so much for this post, Tiffany, and for your comments, Hope. And this is exactly why attempting to communicate with an N is totally self-defeating. Communication is not for dispensing information or connecting. To an N it's all about maneuvering, controlling and asserting their will or power over you...the facts be damned.

No more aiding and abetting. Yup, that's my slogan, too. So easy to slip back though. Requires vigilance, and having a support network like this, helps too!

Demian,
  ~DreamSinger

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Re: more N traits (for newbies or anyone in need of an N primer)
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2006, 06:53:17 PM »
Guilty as charged.  I sent my mom a really long email listing all of my grievances.  I know that to have a verbal conversation with her is useless because she shuts down....says something like, "You'd love it if I were dead!!"

Then the next day at work............we walk around as if nothing was said.  No, we cannot let people know that anything is wrong.

But here's what I have done.............I expose her at work all the time.  Don't know if that is right but she seems like one big inside joke with me and the employees.....they all know how she is...............we just make decisions behind her back and don't tell her.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"