Issues connected with surviving an N parent

[Overcomer]

I am glad you guys brought up the topic of promiscuity.......after my first love, who I adored.......there were a lot of young men.  I would get drunk and then end up in bed with so many.  Sometimes I would wake up and not even know where I was!!  It was scary!!  But after these sexual encounters, I wanted them to call me.  For us to "date."  Well, I guess to those guys having sex was a date...........gee whiz, a pretty cheap date at that.  No strings.  No calls.  No emotions.  Just sex.  And all we were looking for was love and all we got was the feeling of being used, not valued, I felt like a piece of trash.........that definitely didn't help with the self worth issues.  Somehow I thought if I could woo these guys enough to get them into bed, that somehow I won.  But I always lost.  A couple of times I had a boyfriend and I got drunk and ended up in bed with someone else.  Now that boyfriend has been married to a gal for over 20 years....................2 grown kids, good life.  But I have been told that I was his first love and I broke his heart.  I would do anything to go back to that night and not drink and not go to bed with whoever!!

There are a lot of things I have done in the past that now that they are identified make perfect sense.  Looking back on my life I could never figure out why I was driven to drink, or be promiscuous, or gain weight, or do drugs, or make poor relationship decisions..............or.......or.................or......................one thing after another.  I would just be so happy if I from this day forward could make every decisions based on prayer and well thought out plans.......not some knee jerk reaction to my nmom or my nhusband.........................

[Gaining Strength]

Gosh Kelly - your post hits me hard.  I really grieve with you over

Looking back on my life I could never figure out why I was driven to drink, or be promiscuous, or gain weight, or do drugs, or make poor relationship decisions..............or.......or.................or......................one thing after another.

I think you make a great strategy

I would just be so happy if I from this day forward could make every decisions based on prayer and well thought out plans.......not some knee jerk reaction to my nmom or my nhusband.........................

I think that prayer and planning are a way out.  I won't get it right the first time but if I keep at it perhaps overtime this will get us there.

Great post - thanks for your thoughts -
Gaining Strength

[Overcomer]

Well, this thread hit me hard because when you read about the different things that manifest themselves because we feel worthless.  My ex-husband (who was raised in a worse environment than I and is still the world's biggest loser..._ ) would pull out his hair and then eat it.  He had that hair pulling AND that pica......he is still living his life with so many problems.  He acts real good in public - almost arrogant but he is covering for all the things that were missing from his childhood......

[Plucky]

Hi Kelly,
your statement about your H sounds a little mean.  Do you think it is somehow his fault that he had a bad childhood?  If so, and more importantly, how does that apply to you?  Deep down, do you think on some level it is your fault that you were born into the wrong family?

I can understand not wanting to be with him with all his issues and the fact that he does not seem ready to change anything.  I guess I am just surprised that you sound almost as if he is a big loser due to his FOO, which is worse than yours, but still, what does that mean for you (and the rest of us)?
Plucky

[Hopalong]

GS,
Two things came together in my early 20s (and very late teens).

I became aware of how women were subjugated, objectified, and devalued in our culture. And how they (we) collude. And how MASSIVE it all was. Absolutely overwhelming, and it broke my idealistic heart.

I loved my boyfriend but was too young to marry. After him...

I was promiscuous for several years. I believe it was because it gave me a sense of power I did not know how to grasp any other way. At that time, I needed to feel it.

I flirted, enjoyed my youthful attractiveness, delighted in delighting men. I was a bold young woman.

I do not regret it. I am not ashamed.

Hops

[Overcomer]

Pliucky:  After I reread my post, I guess that did sound a little mean, but let me put it in context.  This is my EX husband.......he had over 25 affairs while we were married..............a real sex addict.  We have been divorced for 10 years.  He had a good job but hasn't worked steadily for the past two years.  He jumps from one woman to take care of him to the next.  He never sees the girls or pays me child support.  He's way behind...................so when I call him a loser, it's not because of his FOO but because he doesn't do his part for our children and I am sick of him...........

[penelope]

hi all,

All the posts here resonate with me.

I think the biggest legacy from being raised with N parents for me, has been not knowing what I'm feeling.  It is so confusing, trying to figure out what I feel.  After years of being told what I'm feeling/thinking, it's hard to sort out.

I think I'm slowly getting in touch with feelings, though, and it is a relief to identify one at times.  When I do - even if it's anger - I'm just relieved now.  I'm so happy I have these feelings and can recognize them, I forget to be fearful that I'm angry!

Does anyone else relate to this?

hugs all,
p bean

[pennyplant]

I think the biggest legacy from being raised with N parents for me, has been not knowing what I'm feeling.  It is so confusing, trying to figure out what I feel.  After years of being told what I'm feeling/thinking, it's hard to sort out.

I think I'm slowly getting in touch with feelings, though, and it is a relief to identify one at times.  When I do - even if it's anger - I'm just relieved now.  I'm so happy I have these feelings and can recognize them, I forget to be fearful that I'm angry!

Does anyone else relate to this?

Oh yes, PB, I do understand this.  It is only in the last few weeks that I have been able to be aware of each emotion I have and recognize it as being an emotion and which one.  Emotions and recognizing them and allowing them is so important because emotions are such a large part of our personalities.  And how can you even function in the world at large, let alone be as happy and successful as possible, when you don't even understand who you are?  (And by successful I mean using one's talents to their fullest capacity.  I don't mean awards, money and recognition.)

It feels calm and orderly inside of me when I recognize each emotion and allow it to exist.  It takes away some of the anxiety I tend to feel.  And maybe part of not having fear with the strong emotions is that each time you allow an emotion, you have the chance to learn that you can survive an emotion and life will go on again and you will be okay.  You are okay.  Lately, in fact, I have taken to telling myself, Remember, the last time you felt depressed in the darkness of night, you were still able to get up in the morning and go to work and let someone cheer you up, and you let yourself feel happy again that time, so it will happen this time too.....  Fear is not necessary with this new knowledge gained of experience.

Maybe my speech to myself sounds a little articifial, but to me this is all still so new.  If I had learned these things when I was three or four, the way some lucky souls do, then my little speech would perhaps sound more natural.  So, I guess that is little Pennyplant making herself heard in the darkness of the night.  The little one is teaching the old one some things  .

(((((PB)))))), you are certainly not alone in this!

Love, PP

[Certain Hope]

Hi Pb,

  Yes, I can relate to the struggle to recognize and identify feelings. It is such a relief!

For a long time in me... there was fear and there was anger, alternated with love, yes, but I think it was a false sense of love, because it was based on neediness and a terror of displeasing others. Now, as the emotions rise to the surface, I'm finding that they don't demand action nearly so much as just to be seen and acknowledged. The feelings are not at all irrelevent or weak, as I used to believe, nor do they need to be considered dangerous and overwhelming. In fact, what makes them seem dangerous and overwhelming to me is when I deny them and try to keep them stuffed. It's very liberating indeed to be able to draw these things out into the open, consider them in the light of the present, and then make a rational decision as to whether they should prompt action or release. When I first brought them out, they were all making so much noise screaming to be acted upon that I ran around in circles trying to decide which move to make first. They are much more calm and orderly these days  

Oh, best wishes on your doctor appt today... I hope you get one who really listens and is willing to take the time to consider your individual circumstances!

Love,
Hope

[Plucky]

Hi Kelly,
I see that I misunderstood.  Thanks for explaining further and in such a healthy, nondefensive way.  I will have to concur that he is a big loser.  Yuck.
Plucky

[Hops]

Thank you for this, PP!

It feels calm and orderly inside of me when I recognize each emotion and allow it to exist.  It takes away some of the anxiety

That is really helpful to me. I am anxiety-riddled too, and this simplicity of thought DOES help.

The little one is teaching the old one some things 

She's teaching me too.

Hops

[Hops]

PS about promiscuity:

It's important to me to try to express myself well on this... the reason I say I do not regret it is that I don't want to feel shame at something I know I was doing out of a desire to not loathe and devalue myself. It may have been a backwards way to approach it (celibacy is what I'm doing now!)...but I was given the gift of life, and I was likewise given the female gender.

What I have carried since that first terrible consciousness-raising is NOT anger at men (they are burdened by so much as well, it's just different kinds of wounds, and different power). What I've been carrying in the years since is, hurt.

Just heartbreak. I'm not good enough? I'm second class? I can't go to this public university I grew up playing in? (Yup.) I am someone to mock or to attack or to grope or to laugh at or to make jokes about because of my GENDER?

It was just uncomprehending heartbreak. I shouldn't have been surprised, my brother's scary bullying should have warned me about the real world for women. But I also had a gentle father...and trusted him to represent the real, grownup world. The shock of how much brutality was out there, just because of GENDER, is something I never got over.

But it's grief. What's the point of being angry at half the human race? Men are wonderful. Those who aren't...were taught....

Hops

[Overcomer]

Hops:  About the gender bashing.  I had two jobs where I was the only woman in a world of men.  Once I was a restaurant manager with six other men on the team...........I remember one guy saying to me, "If you want to work in a man's world, you're gonna have to do a man's job!!"  And then, right after college I sold cars.  The ONLY woman car salesmen with about 15 men.  I could try to hold my own with them but it got harder and harder the longer I was there.  When I first got the job, they wouldn't even cuss around me.  By the end, they were stealing my deals..............it was hard.

Plus the promiscuity thing?  I wonder how many locker room jabs I got???  But you know?  My friend and I kind of do the same thing about guys.  She's single and promiscous NOW.....so why laugh and joke about all HER escapades!!

And Plucky?  Thanks for understanding.  Sometimes I just get to the point where I cannot be nice.  He's an idiot and I know it!!!  (But he is the father to my girls so I would never say that in front of them!)

[gratitude28]

Ahhhh..... promiscuity....

Well, I had such an internal fight between what was taboo and waht was healthy...
I won't go into it all....

But, I thought sex and the power that you could hold over a guy with sex was awesome. I also liked to challenge myself and get a guy to like me/want me... even if it seemed a difficult prospect. I thought a guy wanting you meant he really liked you. I also wanted a guy to always be dying to see me after an encounter. I didn't usually do the one-time thing... usually I would be with one guy for a while and then move on.

BUT I always felt "dirty" about it and had some idea that I was a "bad" girl because of it. I liked and feared that image.

My sister, who had healthy attention, never had hangups or issues with sex. She was never treated like a slut; she was the "clean" one. And I was treated that way LONG BEFORE I ever even kissed a boy, no less got into sex.

Whew, this is a ramble.
GS, don't be embarrassed for something in the past. If you move forward, the past becomes a good measurement of where you came from. Also, as one of my books states, the beautiful lotus flower grows out of muck. We too grow out of muck.

Love, Beth

[Gaining Strength]

Hopalong

the reason I say I do not regret it is that I don't want to feel shame at something I know I was doing out of a desire to not loathe and devalue myself.

I thank you for this.  You are conveying something that is very important to me - not just about this particular issue but about any "dysfunctioning" behavior that came out of not being given a secure and loving and knowledgeable basis.  This is one of the things I came to understand in my darkest hours.  Society expects everyone to function as though they have all been given the necessary resources.  It is unreasonable and it works against our society as a whole.  Where I am strong I can help someone else who doesn't have that strength.  Where I am weak I need someone to help pull me up.  But society is judging and condemning and excluding when it identifies a weakness.  And we suffer as a whole because of that condemnation.

Excuse me for taking a particular and expanding it exponetially.  But I do this in order for me to be able to grow.  I can let go of those things I did when I knew nothhing else and in letting go, I can surmount them and get to healing.  When I get to healing I expect more from myself.

Just working out my thoughts along the way.

gratitude

GS, don't be embarrassed for something in the past. If you move forward, the past becomes a good measurement of where you came from. Also, as one of my books states, the beautiful lotus flower grows out of muck. We too grow out of muck.

Thanks. I'm not so much embarrassed as much as shamed.  They are so similar but the nuance is slightly different.  I so love your analogy of the lotus flower.  That is really beautiful.  I don't mind having been in the muck - (but I hate being stuck iin it.)

your friend - Gaining Strength