total paranoia

[pandora]

OK, guys, I really appreciate your kind indulgence here.  I have learned a lot from reading and I am sooo grateful for the feedback to my posts.  

I am reading more stuff on narcissism – don’t know if it helps.  Now I wonder if my husband’s current behavior is in fact some kind of manipulation – conscious or not.    He is being affectionate and clingy physically, while making statements that show no real interest in whether we are together or not.  I also remember how he seemed to like it a few times when I got angry and let loose on him a little – he seemed to enjoy it - maybe that was manipulation too?    There is some pattern where I make an emotional appeal, and he reacts coldly, which leads me to become even more emotional – is that a similar thing?  Does my getting upset feed him in some way?  I am being more withdrawn now and really trying not to get drawn into that, so I guess if he needs that kind of “supply” he will probably try to do something to provoke it.  

I think his verbally abusive behavior subsided as I became more withdrawn – when I was expressing more fear and distress about our marriage ending, and doing all I could to hold onto him, it was more intense and had more of an effect than it would now, when I am less intent on holding on.   Maybe he doesn’t want to drive me away, but only wants to be able to provoke some response?  

The last time I tried to appeal to him emotionally and to try and explain my feelings of betrayal, abandonment, and mistrust, he responded with no understanding, discounted my feelings, and became angry and frustrated.   I became very weepy and upset, and then apologetic for getting so pathetic and upset.  To make it up to him for being so pathetic and hysterical, that night I made an effort to meet his sexual needs.  Maybe that whole kind of interaction is what he feeds off of?  

I just had a kind of awful thought – one thing that has never made any sense at all is how he told me all sorts of details about the other woman even when he was still infatuated with her, all the while criticizing me.  And recently he met up with another new woman “friend” for lunch/dinner and been quite open with me about it– how else could he expect me to react to that but with apprehension and anxiety! – even someone who really can’t feel empathy should be in tune enough to see that.  Maybe part of the reason he tells me these things is because on some level he wants to see the effect it has on me, maybe he needs to see how I respond by being hurt and upset, feeling insecure, trying to please him, becoming emotionally distraught, etc.  Is this verging on paranoia?  

Thanks for listening to my crazy thoughts!  I sometimes think I am the one who is really nuts here.

[Anonymous]

And recently he met up with another new woman “friend” for lunch/dinner and been quite open with me about it– how else could he expect me to react to that but with apprehension and anxiety!

This is outrageous. Are there any "rules" in this marriage, any standards of behavior? Because this is over the top.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Pandora, you are not nuts. I 2nd  what bunny says, this is over the top. And he's being so cruel to you. It's such a terrible thing to do to you. I do think some people don't bother to are capable of empathising. That my experience unfortunately. My husband has done similar and no amount of me trying to 'make' him understand or explaining how he made me fel stopped him from doing it again and again. So I've changed. And now whether he understands or not isn't my concern. I once read acomment by Linda McCartney and asked how she felt about all these irls who threw themselves at Paul. Did it bother her, did she feel concerned, and she replied to the interviewer that if he ever did get involved with someone else behind her back that'd be his problem that he's have to deal with the consequences of. She was so self-possessed in this regard, and lived as an independent and interesting woman in her own right and didn't suffer paranoia because of ther respect she had for herself and the respect he showed her. To me it seems so imporant to have this if a relationship is to work well. Mutual respect and consideration. Boundaries and agreements which are abided by. Your husband isn't showing you any respect and that's another way that he's avoiding his responsibility. He's definitely immature in this relationship and need some counselling and probably therapy. If unaddressed it'll have you taking the blame and meeting his needs and enabling him to stay the same way. There sounds to me like a fair bit of sadism here in that he likes to see you anxious, he gets a sense of power  from it. I know my husband did. When I shut down from him emotionally he went the other way and tried to show me how unimportant other women were but by then it was too late. The horse had bolted so to speak. Now I'm more like Linda, if he wants to do that, then that's his problem. Funnily enough now that he's free and able to choose others he's not doing it. But I'm not trying to hold out false hope here. every situation and person are so different. You have to look after you, and in any relationship when one spouse gets the other spouse thinking that they are nuts, it's gone way out past left field. This guy has to be brought to account somehow, and take responsibility. Otherwise the hopes for a happy future appear fairly bleak.

Guest

[Anonymous]

Pandora,
Thank you for being so honest and brave...  no, you are not nuts.  
I think you have had some very wise insight in seeing his behavior as manipulation.  You have shed some light for me to see into an aspect of my marriage.  My husband likes to get a reaction from me to. (not in the exact same way)  I can't say I understand it other than he just gets a kick out of the control he has.  I too have placated him sexually too, because he he lays these subtle (but obviously effective) guilt trips.
I have consciously decided I am not having sex with him again until I feel respected in the marriage.  That stirs up more tention and makes me feel anxious and cold... but I am grasping for any possible source of power. (that may not be the best solution for someone who is in imediate physical danger). I am not really sure if he is getting the point anyway.

I also want to say, that I haven't been a member of the cyber community for very long, but I think I have noticed how much easier it is to identify mistreatment in others relationships than it is to identify in my own. To me your husband is obviously acting very inappropriately, and it is having a terrible effect on you.  But While I can draw parallels to my own relationship, I think to myself, "it's not exactly the same, it's not that bad, he doesn't do it consciously"  Maybe it's because I still need or want this to work so badly...

I also read other women's stories and fear that in 15 years I will still be hoping... still be making excuses.... and it will be much harder to leave because of kids and longevity, etc.  I wonder how long I will wait. I don't know the answer

Pandor, please take care of yourself. Know that you have a right to be appalled by his behavior.  I will try to stay in touch if you will.

[sjkravill]

that last message was from me.
I am still figuring out this message board thing!  
just wanted to claim it
Jskravill