Author Topic: just found out  (Read 5451 times)

pandora

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just found out
« on: February 18, 2004, 06:06:23 PM »
My husband and I have been going to marital counseling in the wake of an emotional/physical affair that occured over the last half of last year.  I am still confused and hurting over his betrayal, and in addition I was the target of his verbal/emotional abuse for several months while he was involved with the other woman.  (BTW, he evidently abused her as well).

I have been very needy and insecure and have been appealing to him for emotional support.  He cannot give it.  He is unable to put himself in my shoes.  He is not able to see the effects of his words and actions on others, including me - now I understand why so many former friends have fallen by the wayside.  

I just met with our marital counselor.  He told me that my husband exhibits many traits of a N, most notably inability to be empathic.  I have been researching in this area, so I had suspected something like this, but to hear it from a professional was a serious shock.  

I am not sure what to do.  He has been able to successfully halt the verbally abusive behavior, and is acting loving and affectionate at times.  However, other actions of his signal that he is "leaving" the marriage in many ways.  In addition, besides his dishonesty with me, he has been dishonest and sometimes even manipulative in his personal and business life.  

I have been very committed to my marriage and I love my husband, which is why I am still here, but I can't sacrifice myself to a lifetime of misery.  I already have told him that abusive behavior and involvements with other women are deal-breakers.  I am still struggling with the dishonesty - it really disturbs me.  According to the therapist, Ns are rarely able to change their basic nature.  

Now I am trying to figure out what this means and what my options are.  It looks like the emotional support and connection I thought would be in my marriage are not there and will probably never be.  Can I make a reasonalby happy life in this situation, or is that a lost cause?

Still shaking.  I wish this day had never come, but I have to know the truth for what it is.  Thanks to all for any insight.

phoenix

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just found out
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2004, 06:19:18 PM »
bye

pandora

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just found out
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2004, 06:30:19 PM »
We have been married a little over 4 years. I found out about his affair two days after our anniversary.  We dated for about 4 years before marrying.  We had a rocky dating relationship, I finally broke it off "for good" and then he pursued me passionately until I came back.  We did have pretty good chemistry.  

The year before we were married was good, from what I remember, and then the first two years of our marriage were pretty good.  There have been signs of something missing in our relationship before, and isolated periods of critical and controlling behavior.  This got progressively worse over the past two years, and was at its highest point during his affair.   My fruitless efforts to appear to him for emotional support and compassion in my hurt and needy condition finally woke me up to the reality that something big was missing here.  

We have a lot of common interests and have been good companions for each other in many ways, although the recent turmoil has damaged that.  No children or plans to have any.  Thank God for that at least.

Anonymous

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just found out
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2004, 07:10:55 PM »
pandora,

When someone lacks empathy to the point of dishonesty, cheating and also being abusive, it is unlikely that empathy will develop. It's up to you whether to accept him as he is, and hold onto hope that he will behave at his best rather than at his worst. I personally don't hold that much hope but I don't know him.

bunny

ranting

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just found out
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2004, 09:08:40 PM »
I don't know if you have spiritual beliefs that may dictate your choice, but if you choose to stay, it might be wise to get into a 12 step program of some sort, so that you can focus on your needs and learn how to cope with the effects of his.

Love and Compassion to you.

Karin - Guest

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just found out
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2004, 09:56:01 PM »
Having 'been there, done that' Pandora, be thankful that you are finding this out now and not after 27 years and three kids later. The feelings of betrayal in my case were compounded with his betrayal of our whole lives together as I began to examine our relationship. You will never, ever get what you require from this man no matter how hard you try and you do want what most (normal) people want; emotional connection, equal respect, etc. If you look carefully, you might see that he only has his best interests at heart and if he needs to involve you in that he'll do what he has to; he will continue to be dishonest.
You deserve better.

phoenix

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just found out
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2004, 10:52:33 PM »
bye

Karin guest

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just found out
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2004, 11:46:15 PM »
Hi Phoenix,
I read your post with interest. What you say about cheating men is true, but what alerted me to the possibility that Pandora's husband is an N is her reaction
Quote
I have been very needy and insecure and have been appealing to him for emotional support. He cannot give it. He is unable to put himself in my shoes. He is not able to see the effects of his words and actions on others, including me

That was the one feature that I simply couldn't understand when I was going through the same situation. I understand it now, having been introduced to the mechanics of narcissism.
In your experiences Phoenix, did you ever feel that totally unbelievable bewilderment of not having your feelings heard at all, let alone understood? In my gut I knew that I really did not matter to him, even though he said all the right words. I knew it wasn't just the cheating that was the problem, in fact I was willing to accept the reasons that you wrote about.
Just wondering.

phoenix

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just found out
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 12:43:41 AM »
bye

pp

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just found out
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2004, 01:23:46 AM »
delete

phoenix

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just found out
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2004, 01:43:33 AM »
bye

Karin guest

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just found out
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2004, 04:45:52 AM »
Thanks Phoenix for your response, and it is good to be able to write freely. This place has been very economical therapy for me.
You're right, as long as they still have an influence in your life, you can't fully move on. That's the position I find myself in now and there's really nothing I can do about it. The legal process grinds on slowly. I have to keep reminding myself to be patient (and not try to fix it), because I know it will be OK in the end, whenever that is.
Thanks again, take care.

pandora

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just found out
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2004, 12:31:18 PM »
"did you ever feel that totally unbelievable bewilderment of not having your feelings heard at all, let alone understood? In my gut I knew that I really did not matter to him, even though he said all the right words. I knew it wasn't just the cheating that was the problem"


Bingo.  I am not happy about the affair, but I understood and even expected that there was the possibility that our marriage would be affected by attractions to other people.  "Cheating" happens, and I can take an honest look at myself and recognize that I could give in to temptation in some circumstances.  

The most disturbing thing is not the affair, but his actions and attitude toward me during and now after it.  We have had many conversations where I have tried as hard as I could to pour out my heart - and it is like talking to a brick wall.  He will sometimes listen and perhaps respond with physical affection, but there is no emotional response, and often he minimizes my feelings.  Our therapist has noticed this in our sessions.  

The N description fits in many ways besides the lack of empathy part.  

I have tried to take an honest look at myself to see how I could have contributed to his affair and behavior toward me.  I am not perfect, and I am sure that I have taken him for granted from time to time, but I have always been extremely supportive and in general have cut him a lot of slack.  For the past few years he was involved in starting a business, which was a time of great financial uncertainty and stress.  I took on a lot of financial responsibility, and I really made an effort to be supportive.  I had my own anxieties about money, but I kept them to myself - I felt that it was very important for him to have the chance to pursue his dream and I was very happy when he had success.  I am not a saint, but I look back and I can honestly say that I did the best I could.   I see that I tolerated his abusive behavior much longer than I should, but it took me a while to see it for what it was.  

Although our marriage is far from "sexless" that is one area where he consistantly claims that I have failed to meet his needs, and where he has been extremely critical of me.  He has said that his affair and his "lashing out" at me resulted from his anger that I could not satisfy him.  I am not the most aggressive when it comes to sex, but I honestly don't think I have any serious hang-ups either.  I rarely refuse him, and have always responded willingly to almost anything he might want to try, except for scenarios involving other people.  

The affair was not an accident.  The other woman was an old girlfriend who he had resumed email contact with last year- I knew a little about her.  He invited her for a visit last summer (I believed she was just an old friend - a lie), and then convinced her to move here last fall.  Not only that, he gave her a job working with him.  (I realize that I was a total idiot, but my nature is (or was) to be trusting).  He idealized her as his ideal soulmate - vastly superior to me.  I am not sure what exactly happened between them, but eventually she pulled back, which caused him to pursue her and then to verbally attack her when she resisted.  Now he hates her.  I have no great love for this woman, but I am disturbed by his treatment of her - it is manipulative and exploitive.    Falling into an affair with a coworker or friend in a moment of weakness is one thing - but this whole chain of events was engineered.  

In a few weeks, he will be going away for 2 months.  I don't think I should make any decisions until he gets back.

Anonymous

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just found out
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2004, 12:59:52 PM »
pandora,

I think you did nothing to "cause" his affair. As you point out, it was totally engineered by him, every step of the way. His current response of no-remorse and no-empathy is indicative (to me) of some grandiosity, defensiveness, and inability to take responsibility. Big problems.

bunny

phoenix

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just found out
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2004, 04:01:35 PM »
bye