Disappointment

[WRITE]

well, I don't know if it was the right things do to or not. It felt quite good, much better than not saying anything:

We had a lovely time as usual, crush guy and I, but at the end of the evening I told him I don't do non-reciprocal relationships, I really like him but he has not responded enough and that the ball is in his court ( G_d did I really use that naff phrase. Aaaaaaaaaaagh! )

He said 'I will try to make more of an effort' and I said ' it's your choice' and gave him a hug and left.

I actually don't mind if he does or he doesn't at this point, I think I'm going to be fine either way.

Who is this woman and what happened to her?!

[Portia]

((((((Write)))))) doing so good!

Question time (does it bore you sometimes when I do this?)

( G_d did I really use that naff phrase. Aaaaaaaaaaagh! )

which one??????? (seriously):

this one?:
I told him I don't do non-reciprocal relationships, I really like him but he has not responded enough

Or this one?
and that the ball is in his court

I’m thinking if this was me (being the guy here m’am ), I’d think “what does non-reciprocal mean here? How haven’t I responded enough? What’s missing? Help, where’s the How To guide, numbered, with diagrams?”

He said 'I will try to make more of an effort' and I said ' it's your choice' and gave him a hug and left

Help! <panic> What did I say? How do I make more of an effort? What does Write want? What do I want? Is it the same? I don’t know, I’m just a guy, I feel like going into my garage and taking something apart just to see how it works!

(I have a fair chunk of what’s called male brain, apparently .) So please tell me what it is! I’m a guy, I’m confused...

[Brigid]

Write,
Portia's male brain is right here.  Guys don't think like we do.  He probably doesn't at all see that he is not doing his part.  I have found that spending some time reading about the differences between men and women--how they feel about relationships, raising children, communication, etc.,--has helped me to not have unrealistic expectations about how they react to me or our relationship.  It has also helped to not take things personally, when in the past, I certainly would have.

This is not to say that you shouldn't have high standards for how men treat you, but you need to be realistic about what they are capable of.  To any men reading this, I am not suggesting that you are neanderthals, but just that our brains have different patterns (that is probably just a nice way of saying you are neanderthals  ).

Brigid

[Portia]

  Brigid, we're just focussed and objective-driven and need really specific, simple instructions sometimes... a book called "these things women call relationships - explained" might help. I mean, isn't a relationship where you do stuff together that you both enjoy, you make food together and share a place to live (oh and sex is quite good too) and it's all really practical and works well? Is there more?

(Maybe this is more INTJ than male, to be fair to men here. )

[Hops]

I agree with everybody that clear communication helps.
But I think it was healthy of you to say, I don't do nonreciprocal relationships.

I think the issue wasn't so much what HE was not doing (or not bothering to do)...but what YOU were choosing to do...

You made a statement for yourself. A boundary for yourself. That you are choosing not to "do" a relationship that doesn't feel warm and connected enough for you. I think that's good.

I understand why he may go into the garage with Portia to work on Brigid's Harley, but don't feel bad about trying to set a healthy boundary around your heart in the best way you knew how at the moment, Write.

I think eventually what might "fall away" in your negotiations in a future relationship (all relationships involve them) will be the part where it's dependent on a man "catching on" to a basic level of necessary enthusiasm that has to be explained to him. You are capable of that enthusiasm for intimacy and commitment. You might have been going after it a little too soon with this fellow, but you have the heart for it.

It will still be there when the wheel has spun another round or two. Meanwhile, I think it's lovely that you got a sense of what that feels like...to set limits for yourself, and feel whole afterward.

Dance lessons always involve stumbling. Ain't nobody tangoed like Robert Duvall the first time or two.

(((((((Write)))))))

Hops

[WRITE]

Thanks y'all.

No, he knows exactly what he does that I don't like about what he's doing: enjoying the things I write to him without being bothered to write back, being unreliable about making/keeping arrangements and wanting all his own way- he is quite a catch and seems to know it and whilst being too nice to really play the field he gets plenty of attention from women and I suspect doesn't feel he has to try too hard.

Well he does if he wants a closer relationship with me!

I can be more specific with him of course! but the real fact is he has to want to plus be able to find out what I want for myself....(not easy since I am only just realising what I want) and he needs to know what he himself wants too. Wow that was a mouthful!

you are choosing not to "do" a relationship that doesn't feel warm and connected enough for you.

thanks Hops. You know, we are connected, just some communication problems and shyness and neither of us being entirely certain what we're doing right now I think.

And I am still married. I guess I would have handled things differently if I wasn't but I am.

tell me what it is! I’m a guy, I’m confused...

Portia is a guy? Missed that one.

[Portia]

Hi Write

I have all the female bits, so I qualify as female, even if my brain registers a male bent (were you really confused?). Glad to clarify that one!

Hey this chap:

enjoying the things I write to him without being bothered to write back, being unreliable about making/keeping arrangements and wanting all his own way- he is quite a catch and seems to know it and whilst being too nice to really play the field he gets plenty of attention from women and I suspect doesn't feel he has to try too hard.

Sounds to me like he wants a mommy; someone who caters for his wishes and who he doesn’t have to reciprocate with. Unconditional love? I don’t know. Everything you’ve said above is red flags for me; he sounds unavailable (available only to himself?).

Quite a catch – I remember Bunny using this phrase and I’ve never understood it. Do men need catching? Are women hunters? This is my incomprehension of the way the world works. I’m interested in other people, but I don’t see them as potential …partners as such. If I’ve got together with someone, it feels like it’s happened by accident and I can’t say I’ve harboured long-term plans….my relationships have evolved by mutual consent and negotiation. But then I’ve never had expectations – not sure that qualifies as healthy or not. 

[Hopalong]

Hi Write...
Quoting myself here, just thought I maybe hadn't been clear.

You might have been going after it a little too soon with this fellow, but you have the heart for it.

It [your capacity for love and intimacy, not necessarily a specific partner] will still be there when the wheel has spun another round or two

Glad you're taking a break if that's feeling right to you.
I know it must be lonely and a little scary to be feeling the reality of Ms. Not-Married coming at you, since it's been so many years. I have complete faith you are going to be okay, and happier.

xxoo,
Hops

[WRITE]

Sounds to me like he wants a mommy

or I should have had more kids ( smile )

I don't know Portia, and I can't see me seeing him again so I think it's about done.

When we go out it is good, we have a great time. But I turned him down and I still can't leap into his arms and I guess the male ego doesn't cope very well with that even if there's a perfectly grown-up explanation. Plus he has his own needs- he wants to be in a relationship. And I'm hardly available am I.

If I’ve got together with someone, it feels like it’s happened by accident and I can’t say I’ve harboured long-term plans….

it's tricky Portia.
If I didn't think someone had relationship potential I wouldn't get to know them better on this level, a friendship can develop over months and years. With a romance it has a different momentum unless both of you are going to date several people simultaneously.
This was a friendship, he didn't know I wasn't divorced, I didn't know I would develop feelings for him.

What's becoming obvious to me is I need to be out of this right now.

The timing's off and no matter how well I get on with him it's not going to work out whilst I am still married to someone else. It's not like my marriage is very normal either- my ex is quite likely to act out pretty badly if he doesn't like what is happening.

I should not have seen this guy again after my feelings went beyond friends, I'm just messing with myself and him.

My first thought when I woke up this morning was 'I don't need this' as in I have enough going on right now.

I feel like an idiot for even thinking about a romance whilst trying to divorce my difficult husband. Like I can afford to take my eye off things for a minute...though he's doing pretty well and has detached from me right now we all know what will happen if he starts to feel he's being slighted.

Unconditional love? I don’t know

yes you have to be careful with that too- sometimes loving someone unconditionally is just an excuse to do the things you want to without asking their permission or waiting for their comfort level. I'm a very loving person and I know from what people tell me I can be overpowering. And I do really love the people I love, but my instinct tells me other people are much more reluctant to commit than I am ( maybe I'm impetuous- expecially with romance, it's hardly like I have an incredible track record...)

I need to back off and let things settle down in so many ways.

I've decided to suggest to my ex that we formalise our financial child support arrangements and sign a document with a notary prior to filing for divorce. And I want to file for divorce by the end of the year so I have some stuff to get on track for that. It's dragged out long enough and I think is what is making me anxious now really, not whether a new relationship is a good idea ( which it isn't )

I'm so caught up in so many emotions right now, it's hard to make big decisions or even little ones, I need to focus.

But then I’ve never had expectations – not sure that qualifies as healthy or not

what works for one person may not do it for another.

I have a lot of expectations for myself, and someone else is going to have to fit in the picture differently now.

I really want to fulfill my career and creative abilities Portia. I've spent my whole life subjugating that to my marriage and family and now like someone said my wings are loose and I want to fly.

A love relationship is just two people lining their lives up with each other, and everything about my life is telling me that's impossible for me right now:

10 year old son
NPD ex
not divorced
I have to manage Bipolar 1
me wanting other acheivements

I'm lonely and I ache for someone to be in a special relationship with but I can't escape all these other factors.They're part of the fabric of my life and experience tells me most people aren't going to understand.

People don't understand who have known all this for some time; how is a new person going to fit in?

If I can get used to being lonely ( you'd think I would be used to it! ) maybe I will stop doing this, having expectations which I suspect are just pipe dreams.

It's no use me trying to be like everyone else- I'm not, my life isn't, I've already screwed up one relationship after another in trying to be 'normal'.

It's probably time for me to accept I have to be alone, and to find other ways to put the creativity to work for me.

Maybe later I'll meet someone but it's not going to work now.

I just typed all this and as so often happens Hops posts and reminds me what she said yesterday

You might have been going after it a little too soon with this fellow, but you have the heart for it.

It [your capacity for love and intimacy, not necessarily a specific partner] will still be there when the wheel has spun another round or two

yup, I don't need to confuse loneliness with readiness.

Thanks Brigid Bean Portia Hops.

I think I am moving forward ( with a heck of a lot of tears- but not as many as if I make a play for this guy and get any more involved ) just not in a very linear fashion...

[Portia]

Hi Write, thank you for your reply.

I don’t envy your being caught up in emotions (sounds scary to me) but the fact that you wake and see clearly – that you don’t need this right now – shows you how much control you’ve taken (which would feel good to me, you?).

Your post reads clearly too and this, may I repeat it:

I've decided to suggest to my ex that we formalise our financial child support arrangements and sign a document with a notary prior to filing for divorce. And I want to file for divorce by the end of the year so I have some stuff to get on track for that. It's dragged out long enough and I think is what is making me anxious now really, not whether a new relationship is a good idea ( which it isn't )

about 10 / 11 weeks to get to filing? Focus can be good!

And after 12 weeks or so? At least one thing will be off your list and a change will occur. Maybe you’ll feel differently – for the better I hope – too.

Ignore my other posts on relationships please! It sounds to me as though you’re reaching the point of action and decision, definitely moving forward.

It can be so lonely with another person – worse than being lonely, alone, I think.

(((((((((((((write)))))))))))))))

[WRITE]

Ignore my other posts on relationships please!

never!

You often get me focussed, maybe it's because we have the same background and you know why I have some of these weird 'don't be a nuisance' things which were drilled into us.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I am scared- there's so much to decide on my own now. I really am quite alone- it's up to me what I do with my life! which is heady some days, lonely others....

[Hopalong]

I feel like an idiot for even thinking about a romance whilst trying to divorce my difficult husband.

Write, hon...stop beating up on our friend Write! My thought is when is it MORE normal to be thinking about romance, than when you're coming out of the desert of a painful difficult marriage? (I completely understand, times two.) You've done SAINTLY things toward your ex, who even abused you physically at one point. You are a GOOD person without an ounce of idiot in you.

You are going through NORMAL fear, yearning and all the rest.

I so get the lonely (as well as the yearnings to be held and comforted and reassured)

. Right in the middle of and after divorce is one of the toughest times. Don't lose faith...I swear, you are building a new life.

Right now you can only see a couple bricks. Seek out all the support you can find and breathe through the fears. Have faith...your new life will take shape and shelter you. We will too!

(((((Write))))

Hops

[WRITE]

when is it MORE normal to be thinking about romance, than when you're coming out of the desert of a painful difficult marriage?

you know I said just earlier, it's a distraction, and borrowing the energy from one situation to try and fuel another...

I do really think I have to stop though. In a few weeks time I'll be able to see more clearly, I know it.

Have faith...your new life will take shape and shelter you. We will too!

for an atheist ( or was it agnostic ) you have a lot of G_d in you Hops!

That's exactly where I need to be- leaning on those who love me, and especially G_d. Reminder after reminder has come on this all week.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[WRITE]

interesting little piece of N-sabotage this week. You remember as part of my practical arrangements I switched electricity into my name to start a credit rating.

Guess who forgot to send in his half of the last joint bill this month- unheard of! I'm pretty sure it's not deliberate or being mean either, but it's a reminder to be careful with Nism, their emotions really do take over everything. It's like an emotional cancer drawing its blood supply from where it can.

[Plucky]

Hi Write,
maybe I am a closet male too...but I just think too much thought is going into all this.
The fact is that while you can be deep, this is a shallow relationship with the crush guy.    And that can be a good thing!
Can you compartmentalise, so that you can carry on with him in a detached, kind of surface way, which is deliciously distracting, while at the same time getting the sitch with ex sorted?
I mean, if he is a catch, and I for one am old enough to know what that means, (you young ones - he's hot)  and he is interested but needs some management, which can be provided simply by being somewhat preoccupied and unavailable, then, if you can do it, why not!
Plucky