Author Topic: Forgiveness stories  (Read 2174 times)

Hopalong

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Forgiveness stories
« on: October 07, 2006, 08:04:02 PM »
It has been humbling to see the cynical press brought to tears by the Amish people's wholehearted forgiveness of the man who slaughtered their daughters. Half the people at his funeral were Amish.

Does anyone have a strong memory of a forgiveness story that startled you? Could have been personal, or not...


"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2006, 12:10:37 AM »
HOPS

This such an important question .

I personally have been given the opportunity to forgive .

The forgiveness of others really benefits the other person.

Also holding onto grudges is not healthy for anyone.

But to get through very painful experiences anger outrage are appropriate.

After comes understanding and forgiveness if this can be given.

I admire the Amish greatly for the loving hearts to think of the family of the perbrator.

The car accident that took the life of my twin brother was a hit and run .

They did find the person but forgiving this person was very difficult.

moon

Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2006, 12:15:46 AM »
Oh, Moon, a hit and run. I'm sorry.
That must have made it so much harder...

I honor you for forgiving. It must have taken a lot.
I know you miss him so.

(((((((((((Moon)))))))))))

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2006, 12:38:48 AM »
Hops ,

I miss what could have been but now I look back and remember our love for each other and am comforted by our time together .

He is always in my heart.So Thank you Hops and love to you this is a very important question.

I love that you brought this up.I just was overwhelmed by the expanded hearts of the Amish people .

What an awesome example.Forgiving when it is real is so healing.

What kind of a world would it be if more people understood this principle in this way?

I hope others will comment on this most important question.

much love to you,

((((((((((((((((((((HOPS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

MoonLight

Plucky

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2006, 12:43:13 AM »
Sigh.  Such a typically Hoppy topic.  When are you going to start the 'burn the mutha down' thread?  ok, I will try.....

I heard an interview with someone from, I think Swaziland, and she was saying that the approach to criminals is so different in her homeland (maybe a small village).    She said, when someone has made an awful mistake, and killed someone, you don't just kill them, or try to destroy their life.  You try to heal the mistake, the person has to make reparations to the family, etc.  The whole idea of just basically destroying or taking away the person's life just seemed so brutal and foreign to her. 

I think this is healing versus blaming.
 
Plucky

Portia

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 11:47:38 AM »
Hops
It has been humbling to see the cynical press brought to tears

Hops I doubt 'the press' are in genuine tears; they are milking other's tears. or maybe I'm cynical.

I'd prefer the concept of forgiveness to disappear.

Forgiveness implies there is something to forgive. I prefer plain understanding. If you understand enough, maybe you don't feel as though you have been wronged in the first place. You may feel sad and confused and wonder why this thing happened: but if you don't forgive it, what do you harbour? Resentment, revenge or other stuff? Not sure I believe what I'm saying but I think if we understand deeply, the forgiveness becomes obsolete, unnecessary. ?

Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2006, 12:29:09 PM »
That's interesting, P.
I think forgiveness is different than understanding, even deep understanding.

Maybe the word reminds you of something condescending? I could relate to that...

Anyway, for me forgiveness is felt physically, it's not only a thought or decision. Something in my chest that's been bruised and constricted releases. The before-and-after is a great relief.

(((P)))

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Portia

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2006, 12:54:57 PM »
I get you Hops. What I mean is:

someone kills my partner, mugs him and stabs him, say. I'm in shock and grief. Do I have to forgive the killer?

Did the killer do it deliberately to hurt me? Can i decide to NOT take it personally?

If I don't take it personally (this was designed to make me feel bad - no it wasn't), i don't feel bruised by the person who acted: I feel bruised by the action itself. i think there's a difference (sin and sinner stuff). Maybe I'd need to forgive the action.....not sure.

Also about the feeling of forgiveness: I've felt it as an absence - an absence of anger etc. yes a relief to realise that you don't feel the bad stuff about some event any more.

Does it have to be publicly shown, that the bad feelings have gone? not sure. i think forgiveness is for oneself. Perhaps the startling thing about the Amish is the lack of anger?


Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2006, 06:43:39 PM »
Quote
Does it have to be publicly shown, that the bad feelings have gone?

I don't think so at all. It can be entirely silent, imo... only time it needs to be otherwise is if an offender asks for forgiveness and you speak to them, "Yes I forgive you." (Then it's for both of you, imo.) The Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa did make it a public process, which seemed to contribute to the redemptive feeling of it. I guess all that matters is that forgiveness be experienced not just bragged about.

Quote
Perhaps the startling thing about the Amish is the lack of anger?
Yep. I remember a recent case where there was rape of a young girl by sibling/cousin, and they were prosecuted by the "English" authorities. When he was given a hefty sentence the Amish onlookers erupted in dismay...sympathy for him. Later some commentator talked about how crucial forgiveness is to their worldview. He had confessed in their own church service and been shunned for six weeks. Once that was over, the Amish re-embraced him and it would have been a serious sin if they had not. (Meanwhile, some girls have been raped for years, and a six-week shunning does the trick. Hardly seems like justice from my perspective.)

There's a dark side to the Amish though, like with all primitive cults...the usual. The girls are often blamed (e.g., "You didn't fight hard enough") and not defended when they are raped. And apparently there's a good deal of that.

Quite a few girls have run away.

I think the Amish practice forgiveness is real and beautiful. But their rigid gender roles lead to abuse of girls, what else is new... :(

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 11:07:04 PM »
Hops and all ,

I have a "pancake" story that morphed into a forgiveness and understanding story. 8)

(I still see the need to protect myself and not to be in denial It feels like acceptance

How are you doing and feeling .I am sending you those very special rose petals the gold and pink ones.

hugs

m
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 11:20:17 PM by moonlight52 »

Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 11:28:19 PM »
Oooo, gold and pink roses...I'll look for their  petals on the sidewarlk in the morning...

Thanks, lovely moon...!
I giot Mom roses. She kept thinking my brother did. she was confused today but hanging in..

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 12:06:46 AM »
My favorite forgiveness story is Forgiving Deadman Walking written by the young woman who was a victim of
the criminal made famous by the movie - Deadman Walking.
In the book the author tells her life story from the crime forward.
She comes to forgiveness not out of an "ought" but out
of a need to let the man out of her life.  She had to
forgive to keep from being controlled by him, to keep
from being haunted by her anger and hatred.

It is a powerful story and description of what forgiveness
is and isn't and why it is powerful for living a free and whole
life. - GS

Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness stories
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 07:31:56 AM »
Thank you, GS!
I am in awe of these people...didn't know about that book.

Hops
(forgiving ourselves. Actually. Feeling it.)
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."