What about the 'enablers'?

[Craig]

Hi all,

Back with a second question.

Through your help and much reading I am beginning to understand what makes a N tick and that makes it a lot easier to understand how to handle situations which they have created, if fact they are surprisingly predictable. Thank you again.

What about what is termed the N's 'enablers'? The people who craze to be in the good graces of the N.

It seems that without these people allowing themselves to manipulated by a N the N on his own is really little problem. (Now I say this because I don't have an emotional attachment to an N which allows me to be personally manipulated, if that makes sense).

How does one get through to the enablers? Do they realise what they are doing? Why do they craze the approval of the N?


Thanks
Craig

[Craig]

Apologies,

Somehow 'crave' became 'craze' in my post.

Sorry
Craig

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Craig,

   I've done just a bit of reading about so-called "inverted" or "covert" narcissists. Seems that these are the folks you're referring to as enablers who crave the approval, attention, association with an NPD person. You might want to do a google for covert N for deeper understanding.

   In general, I think it's about power by association. In other words, many NPD individuals are extremely brilliant and often take on a sort of guru role. This seems to create a cult-like scenario whereby the N's "followers" get their own empty selves filled via the illusion of power emanated by N. You may also like to check out some info on "cerebral" narcissists... the ones who (think they) know everything and just love to share it, whether others are listening and care... or not.

   My understanding is that the N-enablers have no more concrete sense of self than N does... it's like there's no inner core to them. They don't have the wherewithal to stand for anything themselves, so they latch onto a seemingly knowledgeable, persuasive N type on whose coattails they think they will be able to ride. This is an altogether empty association, since N will never admit to needing anyone and only tolerates those who will offer 100% total blind agreement and support. The eNabler, having only a bottomless internal pit herself, views N as her very life source, so she'll go to any lengths to avoid having N's mask removed and the truth of N's nothingness exposed.

   Just my view.

Hope

[Hopalong]

Oh, my, Craig...
I think many Ns are like master organists...full of charisma and sometimes beautiful music.
They draw people to them, often. Maybe some of that sparkly stuff will rub off on me!

Ns don't crush everyone...just those close to them usually. The rest are just part of their orbit.

Maybe some enablers don't realize what a close brush with disaster they're having in supplying an N. I think most Ns just work on hurting one person at a time...

It may be about being close to power and charm, or perceived power, perceived charm.

Hops

[Stormchild]

Hi Craig

I'll take a shot at this, others I'm sure will chime in. [Hah: two folks have chimed in while I've been typing.]

First, you need to remember Family Of Origin sets the pattern for adult relating, from earliest childhood. If a child has N parents, or abusive parents of any other type, alcoholic parents, etc., then the child grows up in an environment in which abuse is 'normal'.

Being put down, having your needs always put second [or last], being denied the right to feel your own feelings because they make the adults uncomfortable, being put on the spot, never being able to do anything right, and never being able to escape from the situation - these are the things children of Ns and other abusers experience.

What do these children look like when they grow up?

Some become abusers themselves. Battered children often go on to batter their own children, if there's no intervention. Alcoholics' children often drink, etc. [This is not necessarily a 'choice'. When you don't know other options exist, you aren't 'choosing' anything. A lot of these kids never see any other option.]

Some become enablers. Even though being around abusers hurts, it feels like home, because home hurt, and they are drawn to abusers - sometimes to try to 'fix' the original FOO situation [one reason people crave the approval of Ns.]

Some struggle for years to heal and decide that the only safe place is a place without their FOO. Some struggle for years to heal and decide that the only true healing is healing that includes their FOO [this usually guarantees huge struggles and less progress, because FOOs rarely rejoice when informed they are dysfunctional, and the kicking and screaming goes on for years.] Some people become abusers in spots, and enablers in other spots. Some become great crusaders abroad, like the Sharps in WW II, yet they neglect their own homes - as the Sharps' children were apparently neglected while their parents were rescuing others in Europe. Basically, I think every child of an abusive family has a blind spot, or a numb place, or both, somewhere, otherwise we would never have been able to survive. The challenge of recovery is restoring sight to our blind spots and feeling to our numb spots...

The single biggest characteristic of the kind of enablers I think you are talking about, though, the single biggest blind spot of all, is DENIAL. This can be either deliberate or unconscious.

Unconscious denial can be broken, but it can be quite strong. You'll see people using all sorts of contorted logic and mental games to avoid looking directly at certain things... but in these cases, once they begin to see the inconsistencies, they may begin to ask why they do this and then they're on the road to reality. People who mistake weakness for love, because they fear confrontation, for instance. [Peace at any price doesn't work with sociopaths; and if people can't bring themselves to imagine that anyone they ever encounter might be a sociopath, there's a huge vulnerability to the worst type of N, right there.]

Conscious denial is a whole nother ball of wax. People are quite capable of choosing denial when detachment, for whatever reason, is not available to them or they are not yet capable of it [detachment is not denial, because it accepts the reality of the situation while separating the person emotionally from it, as much as possible consistent with mental health.]

So the first question might be: which type of enabler is X? Do they seem aware on some level that Y is an N, and are they avoiding facing it? Or are they hanging around Y the way a remora hangs around a shark, to feed on the leftovers? [In this case, X is really more of a mini-N, along for the ride.] Or do they seem genuinely clueless about Y's true nature - which will be reflected in a sort of cluelessness in general about a lot of negative aspects of reality?

I don't think there's much point in trying to get through to any but the third type... and even then, I don't think there's much point to even that, until those folks have begun to emerge from the haze on their own. You're best off being honest, staying honorable yourself, refusing to be played off against people when the Ns try to set that up, and refusing to be drawn in to 'enabling parties'... there are people who see clearly, there are people who are recovering and pursuing health. You can find them.

Basically, I guess what I'm saying is: as long as you're trying to fix someone yourself, to that extent you too are an enabler. Me too, it's a fight I lose daily, so don't feel like I'm pontificating from Olympus here. I wasted years trying to get through to people who fed on malice, and people who simply didn't want to see what was going on because that would mean they'd have to accept responsibility for part of it... and apologize... and work to make things right.

Your situation is a work situation, yes? If you have the freedom to leave it, and the ability to set up shop elsewhere and leave the N in the dust by doing honest work in an honorable way, that's the best possible answer to abuse and enabling both. Not everyone is that lucky, though, I know.

I hope some of these thoughts help.

[teartracks]

Craig,

Yes, Storm describes it well.  As I read her post, it was easy to identify with the 'kind' of enabler I was.  I can't say it better.

teartracks

[penelope]

hiya stormy and all,

I guess not knowing any better is a convenient excuse...but look at all of us, we felt something was wrong and found our way here.  Thing is, I think even enablers know something isn't right about enabling their abuser.  They can see that people get hurt.  So...it doesn't get em off scott free, they have to live with their conscience.

hugs all,
bean

[Plucky]

Basically, I think every child of an abusive family has a blind spot, or a numb place, or both, somewhere, otherwise we would never have been able to survive. The challenge of recovery is restoring sight to our blind spots and feeling to our numb spots...

Wow, Stormy, this is a real epiphany for me! You just explained my whole friend problem!  That post was slamming, girl!   Thank you!  Never mind Craig, you've certainly helped me!  (No offence Craig!)
Plucky

[Hopalong]

What did happen to you, Marc?
Tell us more if you want to.
It helps. And it's safe here.

Hopalong

[mudpuppy]

Who's Marc?

mud

[pennyplant]

Mark posted a couple times this weekend and has apparently removed the posts.

PP

[Craig]

Thanks you all for the responses from which I have learnt a lot. It is always nice to know that there are people willing to share and help. Thank you all.

[ofnote]

mark
did not remove his post
methinks it was surgically removed by the powers that be
and was not so noted

[ofnote]

in way of explanation of the previous post

first pasting from the topic come post concerning mark........
-----------

FIRST A PASTE OF JUST A PART OF RELEVANT POST REGARDING MARK
ALONG WITH EXPLANATION THAT IT WAS A RESPONSE TO A POST BY PARK
THAT HAD BEEN  DELETED AND THE SPECULATION WAS THAT
MARK HAD DELETED IT BUT IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE POWERS THAT BE
COZ MARK DIDNT...

Hopalong
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2699


   
   Re: What about the 'enablers'?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 10:46:48 PM »
   Reply with quote
What did happen to you, Marc?
Tell us more if you want to.
It helps. And it's safe here.
 
WELL NOW ABOUT IT BEING SAFE HERE ...
NOT FROM DELETION WITHOUT EXPLAINING HOW
WHAT MARK HAD SAID HAD GOTTEN DELETED....

NOW THE REST OF POSTS FROM TOPIC THAT WERE COMMENTING
ON MARK AND WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS POST

OH FIRST BY THE WAY I HAVE NOTED THIS HAPPENING OTHER TIMES
IN THIS FORUM   
NAMELY DELETIONS AND NOT BEING NOTED THAT IT WAS DELETED
BY SOMEONE ELSE...
BEST GUESS THE POWERS THAT BE
Hopalong
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2699


   
   Re: What about the 'enablers'?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 10:46:48 PM »
   Reply with quote
What did happen to you, Marc?
Tell us more if you want to.
It helps. And it's safe here.

Hopalong
   Logged
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."
mudpuppy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 616


   
   Re: What about the 'enablers'?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 01:07:38 PM »
   Reply with quote
Who's Marc?

mud
   Logged
pennyplant
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 739

   
   Re: What about the 'enablers'?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 01:45:20 PM »
   Reply with quote
Mark posted a couple times this weekend and has apparently removed the posts.

PP
   Logged
"Run, my dear, from anything that may not strengthen your precious
budding wings."  Hafiz, translated by Daniel Ladinsky

[ofnote]

in response the previous query
as to whom the powers that be
might be

by best guess
THE MAN HIMSELF
DR. GROSSMAN

OR THOSE WHO ARE ENABLED TO DO THAT
BY HIS GIVING THEM THE KNOWLEDGE
how to delete others posts....