Author Topic: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF  (Read 5947 times)

Mariposa

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Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« on: October 18, 2006, 01:28:38 PM »
Dear Friends:
This is my second posting in as many years – so while you don't know me (yet!) I am familiar with some of you through your wonderful posts here. 

 Long ago, I wrote about my dread of spending another holiday season with my family in this  thread. I think you will get the gist of my childhood  in there http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3/index.php?topic=909.msg11143#msg11143

I have slowly (very slowly!) come to the realization that I am not the result of benign parental neglect or unfortunate circumstances in which made it difficult for my parents to raise us in a nurturing, healthy environment, but rather that there was a strong element of conscious cruelty, mental instability and emotional abuse in my family. It is quite a hard thing to face. Alcohol was a constant visitor in our house, but I strongly believe that my mother's psychological problems (whether N or BPD) had a much more sinister effect on my sister and I.   A few days ago I found a good basic website from Kansas State University on dysfunctional families http://www.k-state.edu/counseling/topics/relationships/dysfunc.htm l and I think the quiz in particular really affirmed that I am in need of help.

I have made some questionable choices in my life – horrendous choice of friends, staying in a marriage I probably should have left years ago and most of all choosing to remain involved with my FOO – a sister who has made her life goal to become my mother's clone and a 90 year old nMom who is mentally alert, physically healthy (still drives!) but has become so emotionally draining that I am overwhelmed. I need to make some life changes and the time has come for me to begin to understand the long-term effects of being raised in a dysfunctional family and I guess you know the feelings of disloyalty and shame involved in this process.

My questions are: how did you begin your journey of understanding how growing up in a dysfunctional family affected you as an adult?  What things/skills/behaviours helped you learn to make better, healthier choices in your life?

Thank you for your advice and best to you all,
Mariposa

WRITE

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2006, 03:37:32 PM »
Welcome Mariposa Butterfly!

there was a strong element of conscious cruelty, mental instability and emotional abuse in my family. It is quite a hard thing to face.

yes it is.

I remember when I left home at 16 I was pushed into seeing a social worker so the people taking care of me could get some money for that, and I couldn't talk about my family even though I knew there were serious alcohol issues and a very distorted reality.

It took me years to accept their reality wasn't one I could fit into and that they had serious problems that I couldn't change, only they could. My mother died without being able to reach any one of us, probably died of self-inflicted ill-health too but that was another 'secret' her alcoholism and chain-smoking. 'Let's pretend this is normal social behaviour...'

how did you begin your journey of understanding how growing up in a dysfunctional family affected you as an adult?  What things/skills/behaviours helped you learn to make better, healthier choices in your life?

I did therapy for a couple of years. I tried it in England years ago but it was a psych nurse I was talking to and she just didn't know enough to counsel really, here I have had a psychologist then a psychiatrist ( I have bipolar 1 disorder )

Read everything you can on relationships, codependency, psychological wellbeing. This is a good board for discussing things and people have loads of experience and resources for specific situations. I keep a 'thankfulness journal' and have spent time cultivating nurturing reciprocal friendships with people who are healthy or on the road to healthy.

Most of all be patient with yourself and learn to listen to that little voice inside you which is ready to speak and say 'take care of me now- help me become my authentic contented self'.

pennyplant

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2006, 03:41:24 PM »
Welcome back, Mariposa.

I went and read your post from last year.  It would be one thing to give you something you didn't really want.  That happens all the time.  But to have gone to those lengths to trick you and humiliate you and then repeat the story year after year--well, it boggles the mind.  Such screwed-up hearts in these N-people.

Beginning my journey--all my childhood I thought it was just my difficult sister that caused all the unhappiness in our family.  And I thought my unhappiness was my own fault due to all my terrible flaws.  My husband was probably more aware of the problems with my parents than I was.

All my life I have had the misfortune to draw cruel people into my life.  Then we left our hometown and lived in other places for ten years during my husband's Navy years.  It was interesting to see that the new communities didn't even notice what a terrible person I was.  I even found places to fit in and be happy.  So, that was the start of realizing that maybe there was another answer besides thinking I was this terribly flawed person.

After returning to our hometown, I eventually went to work for an incredibly self-centered and manipulative boss.  It got so bad after five years that I walked out one day.  It occurred to me during those years that something was terribly wrong with her.  Even heard of narcissism during that time but had no way to see if that was her problem.

Several years later, in my new place of employment, became involved with a co-worker who had some very odd ways of relating to me.  It occurred to me that he had some things in common with my previous boss (childhood things) and one day I Googled narcissism.  Eventually made my way to this board, last February, and read and posted and read and posted.

This place is what allowed me to start seeing that it all started in childhood with my parents and perhaps their parents before them.

Not a big aha moment as far as my FOO.  I didn't really want to believe it.  But the clues keep piling up and some version of narcissism makes a far better answer than anything else.  Father probably was Aspergers (he discovered that himself).  My sister may be N but she is currently in therapy now and it seems to be helping so I'm not sure what to make of that.  She is still incredibly self-referencing in her approach to the world.  Maybe she has other illnesses and the therapy is helping with those.  Mother is probably N, not sure how severe.  She is certainly worse now than when she was younger.  But I don't have to see her much so that helps.

How am I learning to make better choices?  For me, part of it is needing to really understand cause and effect.  Not being loved as a child left a gap in my being.  I have been making choices related to that gap all my life.  As I go along and am more able to see certain choices for what they really are, it does help to let go of wanting certain things that aren't good for me.  Identfying and getting my needs met (more often) helps me to be less needy, if that makes sense.  I have had to build my confidence from scratch.  That is on-going.  I have had to get to know who I really am and what I am really like.  Because I didn't even know myself!!!  That is also on-going.  Choices of friends--I am in the process of starting over again in that area, actually.  I always craved popularity, etc., due to the lack of love.  I am teaching myself to be less dependent on the idea that others must like and approve of me.  Teaching myself that alone isn't lonely.  Things like that.  It's a lot to try and sum up here.  I have posted extensively on this subject--you could find this information by clicking on my profile, then recent posts, only the friend ones are more from this past winter and spring.  If you have time one of these days.

It's amazing how long these Ns can live.  You aren't the only one here with a very elderly N-mom!!  My mother is in her 60s, so I have a loooong ways to go!!!

Mariposa, it's an interesting journey here on this board.  I hope it helps you find the answers you need.  It has helped me tremendously and many, many others too.  Again, Welcome!

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

WRITE

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2006, 03:52:24 PM »
It's amazing how long these Ns can live. 

N-ism as evolutionary imperative....that's interesting!  :lol:

Stormchild

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2006, 08:45:03 PM »
Ns live as long as they do because they drain energy from everyone who comes within reach. It's the enablers who drop dead from exhaustion, from the constant unremitting burden of taking other peoples' consequences upon themselves. Not the enabled.

Scratch a Social Darwinist, and an N starts bleeding.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welcome back, mariposa. It's good to see you again, although I'm sorry about your circumstances.

If you can find a good ACOADF group nearby, they're worth their weight in gold... ACOA probably saved my sanity, in the early '90s. Do be careful, though, of groups that are highly controlling - that castigate people for reading anything that isn't 'conference approved literature' etc. Some people need a lot of structure at first, but for others, it's not good to substitute a highly controlling recovery group for a highly controlling dysfunctional FOO.

Also very good is Patricia Evans' book The Verbally Abusive Relationship. It sheds more light on abusers' head games than just about any book I've found... and you will need to look at the whole issue of abuse, and head games, very closely. It's closely allied with denial, which is the thing abusers use to stay under the radar, a lot of the time.

Hope these brief thoughts help - and keep coming back; as they say in ACOA, it works - if you work it! Even lurking can be working, too.

hugs,

Stormchild

edit in: great link; it's missing the l in html: here:
http://www.k-state.edu/counseling/topics/relationships/dysfunc.html
« Last Edit: October 19, 2006, 08:39:53 PM by Stormchild »
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Hopalong

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2006, 11:59:00 PM »
Hi Mariposa,
I want to offer compassion for the awakening because it is SO painful.
I think there just comes a point when the pain of being treated with cruelty becomes stronger than the pain of losing the dream of a loving family.

I think your parents' game with the gift box (much less your mother's replay of that moment year after year) was exceedingly cruel. They must have been reared by people who had a twisted, perverse idea that crushing a child's spirit is "good for them", training them to "the real world", etc.

I have a feeling your emotional detachment from her now, along with the steps you will have to take to hold to your new boundaries as you set them, is not going to be as painful as all of those Christmases.

My experience with my very elderly n-ish mother is that when I reached my limit, after a few futile tail-thrashings like a snared croc, she finally accepted that the power balance had shifted. I just wouldn't take her manipulation any more. There were an awkward few weeks of adjustment, and ever since, we've been much more peaceful.

I send you strength and strongly advise having a skillful therapist to also support you in your boundary building. Glad you are here...the wise and above all generous people here have made a tremendous difference in my life in the last 11 months.


Hopalong

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penelope

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 01:20:56 AM »
Hi mariposa,

Welcome.  Thanks for checking in and saying Hello.   :)

What has helped me is getting as Far away as possible from them - physically, emotionally, and not looking back!

Seriously.  I just do the complete opposite of what they'd do in most situation, and I find people react so much more responsively than I was taught.  At work, in stores, with my SO...

Can you give some examples of things you'd like to work on - maybe behaviors you feel especially shamed or guilty about.

hugs,
bean

Mariposa

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2006, 01:32:01 PM »
Thank you so very much for your kind and thoughtful replies.  Reading through them this morning caused a number of AHA moments for me – and this is a good thing.

Write – you mention distorted reality in your family, I think this is one of the biggest hurdles for me to overcome. One example: when I was six I developed a lump about half the size of an egg on my neck below my ear.  When I showed my mother she became hysterical – after I went to bed I overheard her crying and sobbing to my father that I had cancer -- not that I knew what that was, but it sure didn't sound like it was going to be fun). A couple of days later I was  taken to the doctor (by this time I was sure I was dying). As it happens, the reception room was full and after an hour of her being steaming mad at being made to wait, she waltzed me back into the car and home again. No more was said or done about that lump – it eventually went away – lucky me. Years later I asked her why she never took me back to the doctor – she looked at me as if I had grown another head and said she had NO clue what I was talking about.  I actually considered the possibility that I was insane for remembering so very vividly this event that according to nMom did not actually occur. I am sure she was gaslighting, but it is a sometimes a struggle for me to believe my own memory. I wonder how you learn to trust yourself.

Pennyplant – yes! Understanding cause and effect – that is exactly what I am trying to do.  For example, I think I have been abused in many friendships because of the Caretaker role I was assigned in my family – I don't want to sound like Cinderella, but my “value” to the family was in being maid, cook, babysitter and the person who took care of all unpleasant tasks that the adults did not care to deal with such as going to the vet with an old or ill pet that had to be humanely euthanized.  I received praise and attention only when I made their lives easier – operant conditioning at its finest, LOL!  As an adult, I seem to be a magnet for people who know which of my buttons to push to make their lives easier. Write a university paper for you? Here you go!  Take care of your dog for two weeks over Christmas while you are on vacation? No problem! Loan you my gas bbq which I know I will not get back for months until you are finished with it?  Here I'll drive it down to you!  This summer I decided to cut ties with one parasitic “friend” and having her out of my life has been a stress reducer. I will read your past postings on friendships Pennyplant – it's certainly an area of my life that needs work. There is a great deal more I want to say about my friendships with women. I need to do some reflecting on this before I write it down.


Thank you for your advice on resources, Stormchild – I live in a very rural area and while I know there is an AA in the town closest to us, I am not sure about any other types of support. I know I will not see our town's only therapist again. I will be ordering the Patricia Evans book – having some insight into  crazy-making behaviours would be most helpful.

Hi Hopalong – there are times I am pretty good at emotional detachment from nMom. However, if I stray too far from the fold there will be an “occurrence.” As I mentioned, she is 90 (could easily pass for 70) and lives on her own in a large rural home. My husband and I take care of most home maintenance, lawn care and lots of general stuff that she wants done at least once per week, usually more often. However if something does not get done on her timetable, there will likely be an injury as she will covertly do the task herself. The injury could be a fall from a chair while storing pots on the top cupboard, pulled back muscles from raking leaves for several hours, asthma attack from using the weedwacker, etc. I know it sounds insane that the woman would risk a serious injury doing unnecessary tasks – but I believe it is her way of punishing me for not attending to her “needs” sooner. It has become exponentially worse since my father's passing (his role was to attend to such things immediately). The guilt involved in taking your 90 year old mother to the hospital and explaining to the doctor she was pruning a tree and a large branch hit her on the head requiring several stitches –  and the look you get from the doctor (“why would you not hire someone to do that for her you ungrateful daughter) – well, let's just say that the guilt I feel when she injures herself doing things she has no business doing is incredible. BTW, money to hire outside helpers would not be an issue – she is very well off.  If I were to divorce my nMom and sister -- walk away from my family forever --  I believe in my heart there would be a very, very serious occurrence.  And I know I'm going to Hell for anticipating the time when I do not have to deal with her any longer.

Hi Penelope!  An example of shame I feel is not protecting my nephews from ending up like my sister and I. While I certainly had my share of challenges growing up, I was in fact, the lucky one.  I decided to leave home as soon as possible and married while in my late teens. My younger sister could not escape – her role was the Chosen One. She was an absolutely beautiful child and my mother appreciates nothing as much as physical beauty. She was groomed from the day she was born to be  a combination of my mother's younger clone, best friend and toy poodle who could do a repetoire of parlor tricks. She slept in my parent's bed until she was 11, was controlled to the most extreme degree and was never permitted to have a thought of her own. She has made her life a mirror of my mother's.  Lived at home until she was 38 / never dated / met and married a passive man who would not stand up to her / had two children at exactly the same age as my mother had us (40 and 43) and is grooming one to be the Chosen One and one to be the Caretaker. It is very sad.  My husband and I have discussed this at length on numerous occasions (he clearly sees what is happening and often notes things as an “outsider” that I had trouble seeing). However, ANY suggestion that nMom is less than perfect, that we were not from a normal, stable, loving family, that Sis really should consider therapy, etc. would be met with an aggressive response. She is a pitbull when it comes to defending her mommy and it worries us a great deal that she is in a denial about nMom's capabilities and age. She often leaves her children (3 and 5) with nMom alone for hours while she is working and even overnight. Even though nMom is physically and mentally able, there is just something so wrong with this – what would happen to those poor kids if Gramma had a stroke or just did not wake up one morning? Oh yes, Gramma has told me on many occasions that the Chosen One is her favourite (she indulges him terribly) and the Caretaker is “hard-headed” (she ignores him).  I really do worry for those two children – I feel powerless to help them and it is a source of great guilt and shame for me.

With best wishes to all,
Mariposa

Hopalong

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2006, 05:11:15 PM »
Hi Mariposa,
Concerns about children's safety can (and should, imo) be called in anonymously. All you'd need to say is, I'm aware of two children, ages X and X, [names and address] who are frequently left for long stretches with a woman of 90, [name and address] who has had repeated accidents. I'm very concerned about their safety. (Then hang up.) I know...it's indirect, but it's real, and I think it'd be one good thing you could do for these kids you love if direct intervention is too fearful.

As to:
Quote
However if something does not get done on her timetable, there will likely be an injury as she will covertly do the task herself.

Oh, this is a tough one too, when you've been groomed to feel responsible. As to the doctor's "looks" when she needs care for an accident, you have every right to look him/her in the eye and say very calmly: "Yes, I agree that she should not be doing these things by herself, but she has made that choice." Sounds brutal, but I think doctors also know about stubborn elderly. And if one doesn't know, s/he should. And if any doc gave you a hard time, you can say, may I speak to you in the hall a moment? And say, "My mother takes risks as a way to manipulate us into responding to her requests instantly, and it is not possible for us to do that. I've had to learn to accept that I can't control this." Period. You don't owe even that much explanation, but any doc worth her/his salt should respect that reality...they deal with burned-out caregivers all the time.

I really relate to this one, because I have permanent back pain from diving to the floor to pick up things, and especially once hauling Mom (dead weight) to her feet after she came back from the bathroom and "missed the bed." I discussed it with her later and said, I'm sorry, Mom, but I need you to know that I can't pick you up any more, and if you fall again, I will call 9-1-1 and sit and hold your hand until they come." I asked one of the EMTs on one ambulance trip if that was okay, and she said, absolutely call 911, an old person on the floor IS an emergency.

I am sooooooo weary. I have many times asked myself, How long can this go on? (She'll be 96 next month.) I have mentally found myself sitting in her memorial service, humming the hymn.

I do love my mother. I do not like her. And I think exhausted wishes for it to be over are not evil at all.

(Thankfully, as a UU I do not believe in hell, so I don't fear retribution.)

If there's one thing I've learned in my 50s it's that compassion and advocacy for yourself is a healthy mind's FIRST responsibility. It was a revolutionary concept to get through my head, but I now know it is true. And I am beyond grateful for this board's support in learning to anchor it in my being.

So glad you're here, Mariposa.

Hopalong
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penelope

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2006, 09:01:34 PM »
hi mariposa,

That is a very warped situation, what your sister is doing to her kids and what was done to you.  Assigning you a role...  It is not only unfair, but wrong.  Good parents celebrate their kids for who they are, not what they might become if they fulfill their dreams.  It is tricky and I don't even know how common good parents are.  Cause, of course, like you I grew up in an un-reality too.  Unbelievable un-reality.  I'm slowly getting my grip back on reality, and you can too.  You can discover who you really are, and shed those unwanted projections.  Assertiveness is a learned skill.  Anyone can learn it.   :)  k?

As for your nephews, I think it would be helpful if there are opportunities, if you could take time to simply listen to them. Listening without judgment is very encouraging.  When we are free to be ourselves, without judgment, the feelings of guilt and shame are not there.  Then we become whole.  Let them do that with you, if possible.  Cause I know that although my parents were wacky, there were many adults in my life (mostly teachers) who did listen to me and valued me, so it does not necessarily have to be a parent.  In fact, some of these experiences I still remember like they happened just yesterady cause they were so powerful to me.  You never know what impact you are having on a child; the human mind is so complex, and little bits of encouragement can go a long way in the life of a child who is starved of love (ie abused emotionally).  Can you think of any questions you might ask them to encourage them to just be who they are around you - and if they've shared of themselves with you (most children do this automatically), do you enter their world, take a seat, and try to learn something?  Like Dr G says, children are a wealth of knowledge, its just that most adults are too busy to bother to notice this simple fact.

Your life reminds me of the movie/book Like Water for Chocolate.  Have you seen it?  It is subtitled.  Similar in that the girls have a very demanding mother who insists that one of her 3 daughters not marry, so that she can be her mother's caretaker as she gets old.  Powerful movie for me.  At the time I first watched it, I did not realize it was triggering me or why.

hugs,
bean

« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 11:36:43 PM by penelope »

gratitude28

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Re: Introduction and coming to terms with being ACODF
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2006, 09:57:28 PM »
Welcome Mariposa, the Spanish Butterfly!
You have already started to build a new life!

You have recognized your family for what it is/was
You have started to own up to what you made decisions about and which decisions were made for you
You have realized it is time to move forward, and start to let go of the past

Those are major steps!!!!!! Yes, we have all made some stinkers of choices with our lives. Some are because we are young and inexperienced. Some are because we copy our familiy's bad decisions.
You can now be the person you want to be. You can make choices based on likes and dislinkes, passions, smarts and all your personal resources.

Lots of love and a huge welcome.
Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams