husband and daughter

[nickyinstant]

Am taking all advice on board and reading everything i can.  Taking care of myself is difficult, but paramount!

A site I have pointed my daughter to and am finding interesting is:

http://www.angriesout.com/teach9.htm

I think its really going to help me. the article - "you owe me - children of entitelment" is good and i have so many more to read.

I have made contact with a psychoanalyst and look forward to progressing that.

Thank you all so much. xx


 

[Certain Hope]

Dear Nicky,

  It's wonderful to hear you sounding so upbeat and expectant! Please do continue to post when you get a chance... re: your progress and any helpful info you find along the way. That Angries Out website is excellent!

Blessings,

Hope

[penelope]

The angries out website woke me up - literally.  I saw my mother in the description of the parent who scapegoats (and first read that a parent who does this is severely disturbed!)

I found the advice below especially helpful http://www.angriesout.com/grown19.htm
"Stop trying to win the favor of a parent who did not like you when you were growing up. A parent who rejects their child has some severe personality disturbance and is not likely to change."

I also, very sadly and horrifyingly saw myself in many of those descriptions of an angry, raging, hurt person.

I read the articles there whenever I feel out of control, or extremely depressed, or sometimes if I feel good and just want to gauge how far I've come.  I find I like to read them over and over.  They resonate with me.  It is that kind of site for me.

hugs nicky,
pb

[Plucky]

Hi Nicky,
I am coming late tothis thread, but I do want to say that I disagree that you have to let her grow up to be whatever she will be.  Who is going to raise her, if not her parents?  Ns are not happy people, and if there is a chance to steer her away fro that, I would take it.  Also, how about your own boundaries?  How about setting some so that she knows she cannot abuse you, especially since she wants to live with you?  It's actually good that she clashes with her father,becasue there is some incentive to behave in order to stay with you.

Not from a place of anger.  From a strong place of self-respect.
Plucky

[nickyinstant]

I completely agree with you.  I have to do everything I can to save her.  But not just her, what about those who try to be close to her.  I could not stand to see some poor guy get sucked in and abused.  And children!!  My future grandchildren - yikes!  After she is 16, I cant force her to do anything.  She is an adult in the UK at 16. Time is short, and I know it.

Can i ask if there are any threads or articles about people who have undergone treatment?  Its so true that N's are not happy people.  Mu husband is miserable, and lives with aches and pains due to his stress and emotional state.  He will get worse as the financial realities of my leaving are not being fully felt as yet due to him still feeding off the business.  I just cant seem to accept that there is not a way to go back and try to undo the damage!  What about hypnotherapy?  Gawd, its hard.  All I ever wanted was for him (and obviously her) to be happy. 

I have to file for divorce, and my lawyer wants ALL the dirt, as he feels H will contest (surely not - but thats me being niave as always)  so thats prob why I am having a wobble in my resolve. 

Anyway, so glad I found such a great board, am sure you all know how great it is to dicover you are not alone, and that someone understands!!

love nicky

[Hopalong]

Hi Nicky,
Maybe it would help to select some good basic articles on NPD and give them to your lawyer...

Should be some good resources on the What Helps thread...

I am very sorry you are seeing your child's Nishness. I have had this fear too...it's hard.

(((((Nicky))))

Hops

[Plucky]

Hi Nicky,
dig up all the dirt you can.  Why?  Because you are probably in denial about the extent of the dirt.  Once you see how much dirt there is, your resolve issue may be solved.
I do not have any resources for N children.  Maybe someone else can help you, or look at the book list on the other board on this site.  I wish you luck.  Keep us posted.
Plucky

[nickyinstant]

have discovered kids dont get diagnosed Till over 18. Am sure she does not have "it" just terribly thoughtless, selfish, and a victim of genes and upbringing.  Being apart from her father best thing I could ever have done for her. What could she learn by me staying?  A LOT of bad stuff.  Like being a phoney fake, thoughtless, selfish, take all you can person WORKS, becuase for her father, it DID!!!

Have got us a phsychoanalist who knows a bit about it - though I suspect not much more than I already know myself. Am seeing him myself for some support, but only been once.  He recons am so needy myself, after years and years of coping with everything, that am not coping well with her, and I agree.  Am the adult, but lost my strenght, my confidence my clarityy and myself a bit, I guess.  I managed my life quite well, but now, its got a lot harder, for the time being at least, so am I better now, or was I better then - for her???  Well, prob neither.....But life's along game!

When they say that physically leaving them is the easy bit......its just sooooo true, and very much in my case.

Am at stage of desperately trying to cease all but neceasary contact.  But the wind-ups never stop- the attempts to hook me in.  I have good days and bad days.  Today started good, and WAS a good day in general, but by 2pm my guts start that terrible churning.  Its hurt and its fear of what lies ahead, and how much worse is it going to get?  In over a year, have only managed to leave physically, which, for him is the least of it.  Regular contact, status, money -  a company director who doesnt work - he still has to loose those things, and those are what will bother him, and it terrifies me. Divorcing an N??  Take it day at a time!  Focus on the light - I tell myself each and every day.

I was stronger when I was there with him, I could never have predicted this journey I am travelling.  But know what?  Never an option.  A true N MAKES you leave one day...  Its essential to the phsyche.  Give em everything and they HAVE to push and push. This is the BIGGEST learning curve of my whole life. The biggest challenge I have ever faced.  But one that I MUST face.  And those who cant make up their minds - stay or go - I sympathise - I lived it - for years and years.  But your time WILL come, and if not... he/she will leave you, cos you wont be who you were, You too will be an empty shell, and of little use to a true N. 

I will guide my children through their lives, as best I can.  I could never have done that from the place I was in. We have a future not blighted by destruction and chaos and damage and hurt for the very first time. x

[pennyplant]

Keep going, nicky, keep going.  It doesn't feel better at first.  These are actually growing pains.  They are necessary.  This is the way to become your real self.  And that's the kind of mom kids need, real ones.

Pennyplant

[Hopalong]

Hi Nicky,

You have my great respect for what you have done and are doing.
And also for putting something so powerful so succintly:

A true N MAKES you leave one day...  Its essential to the psyche.

 

I will guide my children through their lives, as best I can.  I could never have done that from the place I was in. We have a future not blighted by destruction and chaos and damage and hurt for the very first time.

What a statement of survivor spirit. I hope you are profoundly proud of your accomplishment.
Invisible to many who don't know what people go through while they are stuck in the thrall of Ns, but believe me, there is another invisible chorus...

CHEERING YOU!

I am so impressed. And I hope you are too.

Hopalong

[nickyinstant]

Thank you both. 

I'm a fixer, my mr phsycho-whats-it-guy (I'm Scottish for gawds sake. - we dont do these things)that I am seeing wants to help my work out why.  Tres cool - cos am not planning on a repeat N performance in my future life. 

Right now, the singlle life FOR EVER (which it is not my intention to have btw) looks far more appealing to me than THAT marriage I had, for ALL my currnet "mourning" and "healing" and "grieving" and "movings on" all those "stages" that get written/talked about..............which dont ACTUALLY happen in "stages" when dealing with this narcissism stuff.....  Each, all ,and any one of them presents itself to us at any time on any day, and thats before you start to get  rid of your abuser!

I envy those who cut them loose, who dont acknowledge or entertain them.  And I envy those who never encounter them. 
But I have. At length and now am questioning why - what happened to me.  .  who what when why where and HOW did I become a victim.  I am not who I thought I was.  And am now embarking on a journey of self discovery as a consequence. 

I am strong.  Right now at least. Its been a day.  A rollercoaster.  BUT!!!!  The difference now is this.................IT IS SO WORTH IT, and I SO KNOW THAT.  My tunnell is long, and pretty dark today, but at the end of it is light.  Looking back, alll there I see is GREY MIST and land mines    -my life with a narcissist. 

 - years of wasted passion, compassion and love at the expense of those who meritted it.
 
 

[Plucky]

Hi Nicky,
glad to see you back. You sound good.  I know this is not the situation you would choose in life, but you are doing the very best with it that is possible.  You will soon be among the group of people who have jettisoned their abusers and healing fast.

After reading the thread over again., I would like to suggest something I do with my children, even though they are younger.  If I see a pattern of bad behaviour, I tell them that I have apparently allowed them to think that this behaviour is ok, and that was a mistake on my part.  And from now on, I am not going to tolerate this behaviour, and they are going to have to learn not to do it.  I tell themI should never have let it happen, it was my mistake, but it stops now, and I have to do this, because they are headed towards growing up to be people that even I would have trouble liking, and I love them more than anything in the world. 

Your daughter is old enough to be really honest with, I imagine (not there yet - my children are small).

Anyway,you sound great.  Keep us posted.
Plucky 

[Hopalong]

I love Scots. I had a bf from Edinburgh...back in the Jurassic era.

Nicky I think you're doing wonderful stuff, and it's true, after the N passage, you really are not who you once were. I also spent love and passion and time on someone (exNh²) at the expense of someone else.

But you are clear as a bell, actually. There's enormous strength in the way you tell your story, so I have faith in you and in your D too.

Plucky, that advice on what to say to children who haven't had a boundary they needed...is priceless. It restores dignity and purpose to the parent and relieves the child (no matter what age) of the self-dislike they've been creating out of confusion.

Nicky, I so hope you'll take Nicky's [edit: I mean Plucky's] advice with your daughter. It is never too late. I just set some new boundaries with my D (she's 26) and things are better between us, with a new layer of honesty, than they've been in a long while. Not just peace, but growth.

Nicky you're a good person and a good mother and you are doing a fantastic job. SO glad you're getting "help" with your "issues"  and not succumbing to the stereotype of therapy as an indicator of failure or weakness when in fact it's the opposite.

Happy Sunday,
Hops