is she really nacissistic? confused!

[janey]

hi everyone
have read many messages on this board over the last two days and would like some advice on my sister in laws behaviour over the last ten years. Sorry if this ends up a bit long!
When i first met my husband i also met my future SIL and from the first encounter there was something that i wasnt comfortable with.
She was polite and friendly etc but over the years there has always been something that i dont just get!
everyone around her can see no faults in her at all, in fact they are all like horses with blinkers on, and a little bit afraid i think.
She has always only been happy when she is the centre of attention and can get very annoyed if she is not the centre of the universe.
The only way i can explain this is by giving examples of over the years..
1. At xmas dinner once me and her husband were discussing a foreign film that we had both watched but during the conversation she had got up and started clanging glasses and dishes about in the kitchen so loudly that the conversation stopped.
2. after the birth of my son (she had no children at the time) she burst into tears in the maternity ward and started sobbing about how much my son was beautiful and how she wanted a child. I had only given birth 2 hours before so i wasnt in the mood for someone to act hysterically!
3. when she found out that i played the piano (at grade 8 standard) she told people that i could probably only really play chop sticks
4 i have a lot of books in my house because i love reading, but she said to my husband that they were just there for show!
5. she copies ideas and dreams i have and makes them her own. The saddest one that has just recently happened is something that still upsets me. When i was a child i spent many years in devon on a farm and sinse then all i wanted to do when i had my own home and children was to have chickens! silly i know! but where i live at the moment it would be larger enough for me to do so. However months after she heard me saying this to my MIL she put her town house on the market told everyone she always wanted to live in the country and have chickens....(by the way she ranted and raged to get the town house) and now she has her house in the country and guess what??? 6 chickens. one of which she named after my sons pet hamster. (that was something else i had said... that i would give my chickens names) so she now has my dream of that!
6.sinse the birth of her 3 children she has refused to work because she says her husband earns enough money for her not to do so. They live on credit cards and loans and have remorgaged their house 3 times in a year!
7. When me and my husband were talking about getting a tent to take the kids camping, she went out that weekend and brought one. Then proceeded to go to all the places that we go to and say that she discovered this lovely beach/pub/park etc (the fact that we had been going to these places for 8 years seemed to slip her mind and her families
8 it is depressing writing all these examples down, so i will just say that no one in her family or her relatives ever seems to notice these things that she seems to do. she loves to get praise for doing different things.
When i started my psychology degree and couldnt attend a family function because i needed to study she told everyone that i was probably sitting down watching tv.
When her mother was having chemo for breast cancer we went over to my mother in laws house to see how she was, and when we walked in the door MIL was upstairs being sick while SILs 6 month old baby was downstairs, she had asked her mum to look after her baby so she could go shopping! and MIL couldnt even leave the toilet she was so ill.
She has always resented me and that puzzles me because she was never close to my husband. They always argued before i even came along.
The list could go on and on (a bit like her) but these are just examples of what she does and now she can barely look at me at family occasions because i dont play to her like her family do. Her parents thinks shes perfect. She has had her kids sent to child psychologists because she thinks there is something wrong with them when they play up! When their just being normal kids!
She hates the fact that my children are polite and friendly when hers just trash the place, whether its at home or in a restaurant. She only seems to talk to her children when their either being perfect or bad..never in between.
hope this post hasnt been to long! but im desperate for advice because me and my husband i thinking of relocating to the other side of the country to the coast. not because of her but because thats what we have always wanted to do. But we have to keep it a secret untill we sell the house, because she will cause hell! because she will say thats what shes always wanted to do,,, and then she will start saying that we are uprooting the family like she did 9 years ago when we thought about it then! im going crazy not knowing what to do anymore!
Thanks for reading if you got this far!

[Hopalong]

Bravo to you and your H for planning to get the hell out of Dodge, Janey!
SIL is a mess and sounds utterly unaware of what makes her tick.

That kind of jealousy (she's been The Princess until you entered the family) and competitiveness is no fun to be around.

It's sad, kind of pathetic...but try not to let her problems become yours. They really aren't unless you let them.

Her chickens are her chickens. Your task is to get to the place where knowing she has chickens, or a tent...does not have one tiny iota of influence on your enjoyment of your chickens, your tent, or your chickens IN a tent! 

And that will all sort itself out when you move away. Grand plan.

The only thing you can change are your reactions to her. And that is where the growth is.

So glad you're here.

Hopalong

[Gaining Strength]

This behavior is definitely all about her.  She would be acting this way no matter who her brother had married. 
You don't say much about your husbands reactions to her antics.  Is HE on to her?  You do mention that they
did not get along well before you and your husband married but how far back does that go?  I suspect her
behavior has something to do with their family dynamics from early on. 

I will pass on to you some advice that I am trying to encorporate, "Don't take anything personally."  Clearly,
her behavior has nothing to do with you in its origin.  Though obviously it effects your life.  But if you can look
on her with pity or sorrow for her emptiness then you can begin to detach from her emotionallly.  As you detach,
you will react with less emotion and the less you react the less hooked in you will be  and the less hooked in she
will be.  This is easy to describe but difficult to do.  It takes practise and willingness, but it does work.  Try to think of her
as sort of a fly - a nuisance but not significant in the grand scheme of things.

Gaining Strength

[janey]

hi all and thanks so much for replying! i dont feel so like im going mad anymore.

my husband has always been aware of what shes done. they only speak to each other because they are the only siblings.
he has lost his rag with her many times. But she never listons to him she just shouts even louder.
Shes loves a drama though and thrives on attention even if its negative!
she would never have been happy whoever her brother married i know that.
Its just a week will never go by with out us being told of something or other shes had praise for , or a minor mis fortune that has happened to her. Her mum always keeps us informed whether we want to hear or not!
One of the worst things is if my husband and her have a fall out then you can guarantee that later that evening the phone will ring and it will be my inlaws phoning to say to my husband that he is atrouble maker and that he has upset her AGAIN!
i really do try to distant my self. i work full time have two great kids and doing a degree so i really dont have time for her anyway.
But we always seem to know all about her last shopping trip, her friends (who mysteriously she had many when i first met her but they seem to have dwindled away and she only mentions them to critisize them)
She hates me and that does not bother me and i am plesent enough to her for MILs sake.
but there has been times when i have lost my temper with her (family party had a bit too much to drink) and she hasnt argued back.
One time she was going on and on about how one of her children was still in nappies and how hard it was to potty train them etc and i turned round to her and said "well you turned up here 5 hours ago and your son had a dirty nappy on and you havent made any move to change him and then you say you have problems training him????" she was not happy!
By the way her son is now 7 and still in nappies?? she says he has autism! i have never met a kid with autism that is so like my own children.! She loves anything medical. and has had every illness under the sun. And so has her kids, if there not ill its boring for her!
My daughter has bad asthma and we have been in the childrens hospital a few times and its been touch and go. The last time it happened my daughter was only 3 and my MIL couldnt come and see how she was because SIL had needed to go to the doctors with a suspected appendix so MIL had to babysit her kids. She came back from the docs and told her mum that the doc had said that an appendix could take months to get worse!!!! what a load of bull!
the stories could just go on and on.
By the way i havent been to her country house yet and that annoys her!

[janey]

oh just an update sinse last post!
she has turned up tonight with eggs that her chickens have laid this morning! why? she just does this to antagonise me! wanted to throw eggs in her face!

[janey]

all i want is for her to leave me alone why am i such a target for her why does my life matter she makes it clear she hates me  by doing these things! im so mad and so angry and so peed off why does my life matter??????? she has everything she wants! a family that give a shi*t mine dont even contact me for weeks! my MIL has her kids ever weekend so she can "have a break" she doesnt work and all her kids are at school! what have i done in my life that deserves this?
i have been through hell before i came into her family. i was raped when i was 20 and have never been counselled about it. i had to have abortion! god she wants a dramatic life? then she can have mine yeah! so sorry for going on but so angry!

[Hopalong]

"Don't take anything personally."  Clearly, her behavior has nothing to do with you in its origin.  Though obviously it effects your life.  But if you can look on her with pity or sorrow for her emptiness then you can begin to detach from her emotionallly.  As you detach, you will react with less emotion and the less you react the less hooked in you will be 

Hi Janey.
I couldn't agree more with what GS has said. It does seem that you are taking it very personally ... as though it's aimed at you because you are you. (And on some level, you know it's not about you, right?)

It's not punishment, it's not a special customized torture the universe has dreamed up just for you. It's not revenge for anything you've done in the past. It's not proof that whatever you lacked in your childhood you didn't deserve. It's not payback for your abortion, it's not another rape. (I am so sorry you went through both those agonies. Terribly sorry.) It's not life rubbing in your face what it could've been like to have a caring mother who'd watch your kids and care about what's happening to you.

It's a neurotic, competitive woman who doesn't know how to relate to other people except by competing with them like a jealous child. How sad! Really. Try to think about this... This woman doesn't know how to be a friend, or how to make a friend. What a lack in her life! Maybe she's friends with her chickens?

Try not to hate her, it won't help. Try not to let her become a symbol in your mind of everything you
DID DESERVE in terms of luck and love and support and caring (that she has, but can't appreciate). She doesn't know. She doesn't know what you've suffered or what you've lost.

She's going to just keep on being her witless self.

Can you find some peaceful spot inside yourself where you can park her? When you see her, can you think of her as a story, arrived at your door, with eggs that she longs for you to admire...?

(You know, what if she, in her own confused way, really was trying to give you some eggs? What if in her own backward way, bragging and bleating, what she's really trying to say to you is, I wish someone liked me?)

I think the only thing that will relieve you, Janey, is compassion.

(That's not the same as rolling over and doing whatever she wants or not setting boundaries.) But if you can look at her as a hurt human being who acts inappropriately and insensitively because she doesn't know how to do otherwise...maybe it'd be easier.

That, plus...get call waiting!

hang in there,

Hops

[pennyplant]

all i want is for her to leave me alone why am i such a target for her why does my life matter she makes it clear she hates me  by doing these things! im so mad and so angry and so peed off why does my life matter??????? she has everything she wants! a family that give a shi*t mine dont even contact me for weeks! my MIL has her kids ever weekend so she can "have a break" she doesnt work and all her kids are at school! what have i done in my life that deserves this?
i have been through hell before i came into her family. i was raped when i was 20 and have never been counselled about it. i had to have abortion! god she wants a dramatic life? then she can have mine yeah! so sorry for going on but so angry!

hi Janey,

I'm glad you found this place.  It's okay to "go on" about things and very much okay to feel your anger.  It's good for you as a matter of fact!

People like your sister-in-law tend to be able to "sniff out" the people they can have such an effect on.  I honestly don't see it ever improving much between you and her.  She's not healthy for you.  Those kind of people you just don't need.  Period.

It sounds like it would be good to be able to talk about the things in your past that are still hurting you.  Big violations and terrible hurts.  They will keep coming up when selfish people like SIL come along.  It is very important to deal safely with those things.  Maybe a rape hotline could refer you to someone or someplace that can help.  I have had friends who were raped and they couldn't deal with it all by themselves.  It's just too big.  So, I want to encourage you to call someone about it.

I haven't posted much the last couple of days but I have been reading your story and supporting you from afar.  Hope it's helping you to be here.  It is a place I'm very grateful to myself.  It has made a huge diffference in my life and I hope it will do that for you too.

Pennyplant

[janey]

hi
im so so gratefull for the wonderful replys you guys have given me
you have all answered the questions that have always been there about this girl sinse i met her!
i do retract from her, like i said she has had this house which i know wont be complete till i have to be shown around it (and the chicken coop im sure!) but i knew the one thing that would annoy her would to be to show no interest in her life or her possessions and i have done this for 2 years. Like i said on an earlier post that doesnt matter i still have to have phone call updates. my husband knows i go mad when i hear the latest episode and he kept quiet about the chickens for several weeks before i actually knew.
My son had been there for a play date with his cousins and had come home and told his dad that his aunt had got the chickens and he didnt want to tell me because he knew that i would be so upset.
he said to my SIL "oh you have chickens? i didnt know you wanted any... my mummy has always wanted them.."
she replied to my 8 year old son... "well i know all about that... but ive always wanted them more and i can afford them and your mum cant so thats why i have them and she doesnt!"
what an awful way to talk to a small boy about their mum!
i try to see her with pity and compassion but shes just so alien to everything and everyone i have ever known!
how at the age of 36 can she still act like a screwed up 3 year old he never got her own way?
maybe because im doing psychology at uni part time i tend to over analise(sorry cant spell and doing degree....ooops!)
anyway hope to win lottery and by a massive chicken farm!haha
cheers to all tonight from windy and wet england!

[gratitude28]

Hi Janey!!!

(((((((((((((((((((((((welcome)))))))))))))))))))))))

I think one other thing you can do is start limiting what information you give this woman. Do not talk to her about anything besides the weather and benign subjects. Do not tell ehr anything about your life, dreams, hopes... ANYTHING. She is like a child who wants to be just like big sister... and upstage her. I guess on one hand you could say she really idolizes you... but she also wants to suck the life right out of you.

Getting away from ehr would be high on my priority list.

And please, vent, vent away!!!!

Love, Beth

[Plucky]

Hi Janey,
welcome to the board.  Please just go ahead and get your anger out.  Please.  I really understand your feelings towards this woman. 

But what you have to recognise, is that she is an empty shell. She always has been and most likely always will be.    Who on earth has to steal someone else's dreams?  She wants to be you, so badly.  And she cannot.  You will always be on top.  That kills her.  You don't really have to do much to irritate her beyond all meaning.  Just your happy, healthy existence is enough to do that.

When she got the chickens, you know for sure that she did not actually want the chickens.   She is keeping chickens without wanting to, just to get your goat.  How long is it going to last?  It was not her dream.  She has no dreams, other than trying to hurt others.  How sad.

As far as MIL 'giving her a break', think of it this way. The children need a break.  The less time they spend with her, even if they are spending it with an enabler like MIL, the better.  On paper, you need more help. But in real life, she does not sound as if she has anything inside to give her children.  So she must be spared the experience of being with her children.  And they with her.

If you are going to move, just don't tell anyone until it is very close and a done deal.  Even and especially your MIL.  When your SIL pulls her tricks, just act as if you have Alzheimers.  Oh!  You got chickens?  I didn't know that, or 'I forgot.  Well, how is it going?  I decided not to get chickens - you know, with the avian flu and so forth.  Didn't want to rsik my children's health.'

Oh!  You redid the house?  I forgot.  Well, we'll have to come out.  No not this week-end, we've got so much on.....I'll phone you Monday.  And then forget. And forget again.  And again.

If you are able to see her with pity and hold her at a distance. you will be fine.   If you resent her for having things easy and not having the trauma you have had, I truly understand that. I started a thread on the very topic of resenting others for not having the roadblocks I have had.  But then again, look at who she is. Would you want to be her, for a trillion dollars?

Plucky

[Hopalong]

Ditto everybody...dittos!

Janey,

What if you got just one chicken? And hand-raised it? I was just reading that they can be affectionate, can be taught to come and hop into your lap when called, and can really make sweet pets!

I can't help but wonder how it would be if she came by one day and you introduced her: SIL, this is my good friend Henrietta. (Straight-faced.) Henrietta is my dearest companion. Aren't you, Henrietta?
And just go on and on about Henrietta, patting and fussing over her.

I think SIL might lay an egg right on your porch.

hugs,
Hops

[Plucky]

Hah ha hoppy!
Janey, I forgot one thing.  Since the cold war is supposedly starting again. I got an idea. Disinformation.    Tell her your dearest wsh. Only it is not your wish at all. Confide in her and tell her you are not telling anyone else.  Then send her off on a wild goose chase.
Ok, I should stop.   Maybe you can find it in your heart not to be rude to her at all.   Because she is really a sad person.
Plucky

[moonlight52]

Welcome Janey.

I think people that live on 'Planet Competition " are not experiencing what is really satisfying about being alive.
Is it not more wondrous to share love of a sunset and supporting each others sweetness of souls .

When ever we experience disrespect in what ever mode is it not about the other person ???
Some people make it very difficult to have kind feeling for them
Some people can make it almost impossible.

love and hugs to you ,

moon

[janey]

hi all and once again thanks so much for taking the time to reply all of you!
i rushed home from work to see if i had any replys!
i will take all of the above advice. However it was some time ago that i did begin to distant my self from it all because it really started to affect my marriage 5 years ago. in fact sinse day one it has always been part of our life and i think no matter where i live it always will be. its just how i deal with it that will change.
i wouldnt really let it bother so much but when i first met my husband we had a baby preety soon later. and i didnt really know her that well when i had first child. then literally weeks after having him my confidence when right down which i know is normal for a new mum who was young. Im very different now. However, she was at her worst then and looking back on it i will never forgive her for the way she was with me.
she used to barge into the house without knocking and just sit down and say to me "god you look rough" and things like that . now i would smack her one!
but the worse thing was around that same time and she came round to argue with her brother about something and i disappeared out of the room, but she continued to raise her voice so i could here her and she was saying things like.."god she never goes out ,when was the last time she went out with her friends...she hasnt got any has she? she has no life... she just stays with her baby all day...etc etc"
me and my first born had a wonderful two years together before i had my other child. i was not a recluse. but i enjoyed being with my child it was the best time of my life. and now looking back on her behaviour then i am so appalled that someone could be so vicious especially as i could hear her! and the sad thing is my husband didnt really defend me then. and i dont think he really does now.
i dream of taking the kids and just going off on my own so i can get away from the whole family. but easier said than done.
i find it so hard to forgive her for the early years and oh by the way she once offered to introduce me to her "friends" so i could have some!!!!
now im much stronger and a different person and its amazing that i matter so much to her as we have never ever been anywhere near close.
slowly through the years the "friends" that she had years ago dont seem to be around anymore except one. who is so meek its unbelievable! explains alot.
anyway its quite healing rambling away like this because i have never had anyone to really sound off about this too.
my sister thinks shes a prat. but doesnt understand what its like having this persons life rammed down your throat.
I dont always answer the phone but MIL will always pop round to let me know the next installment! so i cant really escape.
On a second note...if she wants to be like me..why doesnt she get a job!!!!! shes not done that one for years!!!!LOL