Need suggestions

[gl]

My N parents are being manipulative and are talking to my neighbors and family playing the vicitims.  One well meaning neighbor keeps asking me for my dad's cell phone number.  This last time I lost it and just glared at the man.  This time he asked if I knew dad's cell phone number by heart.  This "well meaning" neighbor has been trying to be a peacemaker but he is just playing to my parents need to Always be right no matter the cost to me. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE FOR ME.  I HAVE LEARNED THIS FROM 35 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.  I AM ANGRY AND TIRED OF PEOPLE TELLING ME HOW MUCH MY PARENTS LOVE ME.  When you are loved no one has to tell you, you know it, you feel it.  I am ready to start telling the whole truth about my parents.  God help me.  I hate how I feel.          

[Anonymous]

Hi GL,

Why don't you just tell these neighbors and family membersw that you would appreciate their not getting getting involved in the situation between you and your parents.  It truly is none of their business.  After saying that, if they bring up your parents in any way, remind them of what you asked and request that they respect your wishes.   If they don't, just walk away.  You owe them no explanation, and nothing you say about your parents will make any difference, you will just come out looking bad, which feeds your parents (good N supply).

Lizbeth

[Lizbeth]

Sorry, that was me above, Lizbeth.  I logged in and it did not take!

[sjkravill]

I think that is great advice from Lizbeth.
I recently had to ask a family member who I love dearly not to get involved with my relationship with N.  (She was also telling me how much he loved me).  It was very difficult and painful for both of us for me to ask her to stop without explaining.  But explaining only fuels the fire. Will she still love me?  I don't know what our relationship will become, but it really felt right to me, to set boundries.  

You said it GL, "When you are loved, no one has to tell you, you know it, you feel it."

You have articulated something that has been very difficult for me to understand with my N. What he does is use me to feed his ego under the guise of "love."  Everyone tells me how much he loves me (I wind up thinking I am crazy).  
Alas, his actions speek louder than all of words.  And, it's okay to quiet their words.  Maybe sometimes it is good to quiet all of the other voices because we have to strain so much to hear our own.
Good for you, for hearing your own voice!
Peace, sjkravill

[mrt]

Hi GL,
I feel for you and I understand your anger and frustration perfectly.

Just tell your neighbors/family members bluntly "We aren't getting along - I don't want to talk about it  / or about them" or " I'm mad at them - I don't want to go into it" or "I'm angry at them and they are manipulating you to get me to come around. I will come around when I'm ready."  

To family members who try to tell you that your parents love you ( you know better 'cause with family like them who need enemies - huh)
Tell them "So they say - they need some major therapy before I will interact with them anytime soon!"  or "So they say - but you know I'm just not seeing it. Love is a verb. They can say it all day long but I just don't believe it." or " Thanks for your concern - can we talk about something else?"
 Just let people know that you would rather not waste your life discussing how your parents "feel" - You've cared for too long already (and it got you nowhere) That  their "feelings" are not a priority anymore because they have so many and you just can't keep up with them. That you have your own life to lead and they just need to grow up.

To the guy asking about the cell phone. Tell him "I'm not speaking to him right now - I don't want to discuss it.  his cell phone number is: xxx-xxxx - do you want me to write it down so you'll have it from now on?
 

 Stand firm. Keep on being strong. Refuse to be manipulated anymore. You've given enough. Don't let them take anymore.

[Nic]

Hi Gl,
I can't tell you how much I can relate to your post..and the answers you've gotten so far.
When it comes down to it, the conflict both you and I have with our N parents can sometimes be unfathomable to neighbours and friends and even family members..for a variety of reasons.
Don't forget  your parents live on the "outside" and on the periphery of reality..Ns loathe themselves deep down..if anything they are to be pitied for their inability to express anything but the need to control others, especially their children.
Like me, i'm sure you caught on to their game very early on...I know I did..and i'm not their biological child, perhaps that helped me all along since i could absolutely not relate to them..although I wanted to..Lord how I wanted them to love me and be normal..oh well, I'm glad to say i'm almost ready to state that it's all water under the bridge.
Your parents have been building this incredible wall around themselves to protect their virtually non existant self esteem.  Try to understand and repeat to yourself that they have THE PROBLEM! not you...
God knows how difficult it has been for me to come to terms with my Nparents' disability.  ( see...it's easier when you treat them and think of them as the very sick people they are!   I sometimes still forget to do this...and whenever I do, i've become able to step back and forgive myself for hanging on to what can never be..indeed what never was..
My parents have basically gone from family member to family friends to total strangers, destroying ( or so they think!) my reputation...like sharks in a feeding frenzy!
  They are so unable to conceive that I'm seperate from them..they're desperately hanging on to the status quo because their twisted and crazy way  has become their haven, their familiar fantasy..and neither you nor I can dislodge them from there at this point....the only alternative is to stick to the truth and move on...
Like you, i'm sure, i never thought I would get to this point in my life..I never imagined my parents would so turn on me.  And yet, looking back, ( flashbacks help!) and because i've really put in my time as far as healing is concerned, I now see that it has always been this way.
I'm celebrating the fact that I'VE changed rather than wait on THEM to change, like i'd always done up til now.
Although this crisis of mine has been ongoing, i'm beginning to see how it has enabled me to change for the better.  Because I feel better, i'm in a better position to give myself value and more disposed to receive validation from others.  Like that little bird that's fallen out of the nest, that's how blatant cutting contact with my N parents has been.
Surprisingly, ignoring my N parents and their antics have not stopped many of their so-called friends from greeting me here and there..they haven't been able to pull off a complete shunning.  
Normal parents and people are never impressed with other parents causing trouble for their kids...sooner or later they get bored with the N parent who's "lost a troublesome child"..To the balanced thinking and moral mind, N parents are ultimately repulsive..it's a matter of time..and it doesn't matter what you say to these other people as long as you say what you want to say.
The other day, a client who has been asking me how my parents are( for weeks now ) finally got an answer out of me..
He was asking over and over again about where they live now...I had been ignoring his question for some time..enough I guess for him to have figured out for himself that is! This elderly gentleman was obviously prying, and I didn't care...he asked: Where does your father live now?  and I answered point blank," I have no idea Monsieur..."  and before I could continue, he finished my sentence for me " and you don't care to know either..." said he..to which I added: " Voila!"  Our conversation ended right then and there!

Allow yourself to not care! It's ok..your parents have taken up much of your time already..TOO MUCH!  It's your life...YOURS..lead them out of it!  YOU show them the door! ( when you're ready of course and at your own pace...this is a pep talk i'm giving here not an order!   )  Walk them out of your life..take a break from them and then you can decide whether they will ever come back in.

The hardest thing for me to accept was coming to the realization that my parents never loved me, they "loved" me.  I can say that now that I know what love is and how it should be manifested.  My parents said they loved me often, believe me..but they didn't mean it and I didn't realize it.  I've forgiven myself for buying into that illusion.  They're Ns..how could they know?  It still boggles my mind and I thank God i've the capacity to grasp that concept without having gone completely bonkers!  I'm more thankful to the Almighty for having given me the ability to accept it...

This is getting rather long...I hope you understand what is intended here by me.. Ns are center stage, ACONS are backstage..and the rest of the world are just the audience.

Perhaps you could answer those buggy little people who keep insisting your parents "love you.." " I'm sure they do..in their own way.." and leave it at that for now.  You would satisfy their need to believe they do without getting them involved...you would satisfy their curiosity and as you know, when curiosity has been satisfied in someone, there is no need to pursue the topic and it goes away..
Just my thoughts
best of luck to you.
Love Nic

[mrt]

Hi again,
I re-read Lizbeth's reply and she is right on.

 "You owe them no explanation, and nothing you say about your parents will make any difference, you will just come out looking bad, which feeds your parents (good N supply)." Lizbeth

Gl,

My suggestions were for the occasions where you didn't feel like being silent. To let people know that their is a problem without going into details.

I've been there. I bear my cross alone. Certain people would never believe what my parents have done, said, behaved. ( It's unbelievable anyway)  so I to those people I stay silent and avoid the subject. Then there are people who care about me, but I don't want to go into details so I tell them the short and sweet. I'm mad at them / don't want to talk about it.
Then there are people who care enough about me to want to know why. Then I give them as much as they can handle , but not so much as to wished they hadn't asked.  

You can tell us. I would like to hear. I will believe it if you say it. Nothing is unbelievable if an N did it.
 

[DesolateFox]

I've been there. I bear my cross alone. Certain people would never believe what my parents have done, said, behaved. ( It's unbelievable anyway)  so I to those people I stay silent and avoid the subject.
You can tell us. I would like to hear. I will believe it if you say it. Nothing is unbelievable if an N did it.
 

This is very true.  I feel like since I posted here last a few weeks ago, I have gotten sucked in again.  I have been emailing with my Dad, and sure enough, he started with the lies again.  And then asked me for my Aunt's email.  Like I want the mother and the father families to talk again or something.  I am extremely vulnerable, been very ill, having trouble with my doctors, and my marriage is in very, very bad shape, and then my mother emails me with one or two lines here and there (she hasn't called me once since she hung up on me in October when I told her I may be considered terminally ill- she told me "we all are!" and hung up on me).  Then last night, she emails me to fill me in on my step-sister, who has been dealing with a very painful illness that I have had for 20 years, and drops the bomb in the email that my step-sis has nodules on her lungs.  Just like that.  In an email.  

I am so enraged at my mother especially.  I think that because I cut my dad off for 5 years, and he treats me okay now even if he does paint a more perfect picture of himself than anyone else sees, I can handle him better.  But even after posting here a few times, I found myself backsliding almost immediately.  I am just in really bad shape and vulnerable, and my life is so messy everywhere, that I am finding that my old inability to react immediately back in full swing.  In other words, it takes me perhaps 3 days to really comprehend how someone has hurt me before I respond, which is usually too late.  I just can't believe that my mother just drops a bomb like that in an email about my 34 year old step sister, who has two small kids.  Like she was talking about the weather or something.

Frankly, I am glad she doesn't call me anymore.  I wouldn't answer the phone for her anyway (thank God for caller ID, eh?).  But that she never once tried after being so cruel to me is just unbelievable.  I am very isolated right now, my husband has a serious spending problem that is impacting my physical (and emotional) health, and these kind of cruelties are eating away at me.  So I can relate to what you wrote.  It is all unbelievable to those who have not experienced it, but to us, it is a frightening reality that we only wish we could forget or think our way out of.

[Dawning]

gl,  Isn't it funny that these neighbors/"peacemakers" know your parents, but they can't ask your parents for their cell number?

You have received some right on target replies already.  However, I would also like to say that I share your frustrations.  It is like we are supposed to love our parents no matter what they do because they have our "best interests" (one of my mother's favorite lines) at heart.  That is not true.  They have their best interests at heart.  It is like trying to relate to a 6 year old .  So, when family/friends who don't see their Nism come to/at us with their questions/comments, they are likely bringing to the situation a complete lack of awareness of what it is like to be an ACON.  

Idea no. 1: I read recently that N's are very good at being polite and wonderful in front of people they think are judges.  But they don't see us as a judge.  They often see us as a kind of doll - a doll that breaks, but doesn't get hurt.  So, these friends/family see this wonderul person and don't understand - or want to understand - what it is like for us.  

I lived with this for a very long time.  My family scapegoated me and I was the target for everyone's hostility.  I was hit and slapped by my Aunt and judged by my cousins as being weird and crazy.  I think my mother took some unconscious delight in this because it meant she didn't have to take any responsibility.  Finally in therapy in 1999, I started realizing the dynamics of Nism.  Nowadays, my Aunt and one cousin will not speak to my mother and have cut her out completely.  The other cousin speaks to her only in a chit-chat kind of way.  But does that erase the scars their actions have had on me when they couldn't see mom's Nism?  No, it doesn't.  And I am trying to reoncile with them as best I can but it has to be a mutual reconciliation.  One cousin and I are pretty much reconciled and she has been SO supportive recently.

My mother also seems COMPELLED to buddy up to my friends and leave me isolated.  She has done this since I was a teenager.  Now I won't introduce her to any of my friends.  I just can't go through the grief anymore.

How long has this been going on with these "peacemakers"  (if I may ask?)  

In my case, until around 34, I thought I was deformed in some way - a "social idiot" as my ex-husband said once.  Guess who got on his good side right after we met?   She has to be better friends with my friends than me.  

This "well meaning" neighbor has been trying to be a peacemaker but he is just playing to my parents need to Always be right no matter the cost to me.

I think you have uncovered a dynamic here.  Your parents have likely suckered up to him and he can't see your point of view.  You know your point of view.  I think the suggestions of what to tell him (or not) are excellent.

I had to sever a connection with a friend of over 20 years recently because he was asking me to tell him how my mother felt.  I said, "I don't know, you would have to ask her."  I remember years ago how my mother buddied up to him  and got on his good side.  He sees her as a charming and wonderful person and me as the ungrateful daughter.  He doesn't know the terrible things she has done and said.  He just screamed at me on the phone so I stopped listening and put the phone down.  He hung up and I didn't call back.  

Idea no. 2: I read recently that, for many people, dealing with the ACON is much more palatable than *taking on* the N.  Also, read that N's scare people so they would rather try to *fix* the ACON.  Maybe that is an unconscious dynamic that is happening in your situation.

I feel for you.  As mrtraced said, "stand strong."

God help me. I hate how I feel.

I know the feeling in the sense of how exhausting the whole thing is, particularly when you have finally put your foot down and said, enough is enough.  

Nic wrote:

Like me, i'm sure you caught on to their game very early on

I didn't catch on mainly because I had the rest of the family scapegoating me, and all my friends thinking what a wonderful mom I had.  I would often hear her remind me that since my friends thought she was so great then why didn't I?  And, again, that I was ungrateful.  So I grew up thinking there was something wrong with me and, that because I was ungrateful, I was unworthy of her love.  

Anyway, gl, let your heart/mind ignore those neighbors/friends/whoever and open your heart to support and true love.  One thing I have generally noticed about ACONS, we are usually more understanding than others and have a deep realization of what love truly means.

Be honest with yourself and trust your judgement about how to deal with this.  One thing I would caution against, and I think someone else brought it up, don't lose your cool around people who can't understand what you have been through.  Write on this board, join a support group, find that support somewhere.  Losing your cool to the whole world might leave you even more misunderstood.  But I want to understand your point of view, if that helps.  Keep sharing here.

Good Luck and be cool/calm/collected to those who don't understand especially now when you are in the fed up stage.  I'm there too.

Once I stopped trying to explain (or, in younger days, act out) what my mother was doing to me, she started her Nism around other folks -neighbors included - all by herself.  And I am not taking resonsibility for her actions around anyone - anymore - be they neighbors/friends or family.  


Hugs,
Dawning.

[Lizbeth]

Took me a long time to realize I don't owe people answers to things that do not concern them.  I was raised to be Miss Goody Two Shoes and always felt I had to explain everything I did, answer every question, etc.  My husband kept telling me, you don't have to explain yourself to people unless you want to.  Often people are just nosey or being manipulative, and even if they aren't and have good intentions, most of the time it is just none of their business.  He was very right.

Abused children don't know how to set boundaries, and we grow into adults with the same problem.  It is OK to say No, I don't care to elaborate, etc.  If people don't abide by your wishes or cut you off because you dare to set boundaries, you don't need them in your life anyway, even if they are family.  THEY ARE NOT LOOKING OUT FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST WHEN THEY TRAMPLE ON YOUR RIGHTS AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

Why are these simple things so hard to accept?  Why are we so afraid?  Because we were raised to be compliant and obedient. When I wasn't, I was tranquilized (at the age of 2) by my schizophrenic mother's doctor.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself.  Standing up for yourself will make you feel better about yourself and will become easier and easier the more you do it.

Good luck.

Lizbeth

[bunny]

gl,

Your parents are boundary-crossers and so is their neighbor. My suggestion is to avoid these buttinski neighbors altogether. If the neighbor asks you a question, just say, "I've got to go. Bye." You don't owe them even a conversation, let alone a cell phone number. Hang tough.

bunny

[Wildflower]

buttinski neighbors

     

Bunny, I just want you to know that I just let out a big laugh and made my cube neighbors wonder...

Thanks,
Wildflower

P.S. - gl, These are such great, wonderful, amazing suggestions on this thread.  Really nothing to add on my part but I hope all the advice helps you navigate your tough situation.

[Lizbeth]

I laughed at that buttinski item too!  I used to love that word when I was a kid.  Glad to see it used here, it's so appropriate!

Lizbeth

[Anonymous]

Hey how about, "nah, don't wanna!"

or

"No, I won't give you there number, but I can see you really care about the situation so here's my number. Why don't you give me a call some time when I'm free? Wednesday nights are good for me!!! And I'll fill you in on the real story, (you need to wink and smile here   ) Thanks, Bye, I must run darling," Dash of quickly then stop, turn and shout  back from a distance with a big smile and wave, "Don't forget, Wednesday night."

CG

[Wildflower]

"No, I won't give you there number, but I can see you really care about the situation so here's my number. Why don't you give me a call some time when I'm free? Wednesday nights are good for me!!! And I'll fill you in on the real story, (you need to wink and smile here  ) Thanks,  Bye, I must run darling," Dash of quickly then stop, turn and shout back from a distance with a big smile and wave, "Don't forget, Wednesday night."

     

I like that one .

Wildflower