What's the difference between Voiceless and Speechless?????

[rosencrantz]

       

[Anonymous]

[/i]Too mucha red wine

Ahhh... so that's what your prob. has been all along...   It all makes perfect sense now.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

That is so funny made me think of a joke,

Q. "What's the difference between Rosencrantz and Portia?".
A. "Nothing, they're both the same person."

H      

Sorry guys bringing this thread to the top, but just had to share it.

[Guess]

Everytime you reply, you let us (all who are here seeking healing and solace) know who YOU really are. So, keep on posting. Your words, your manner, your tone they speak to who you really are on the inside

[rosencrantz]

My, my, you ARE having fun at our expense, aren't you!!

Enjoy it while you can - cos we'll be leaving you behind one day.  Those of us who have used the Board to find truth, health and strength will be off having a wonderful and fulfilling life but you, dear sad ones, will be stuck in the same place of hurt, pain and loneliness.  I'd offer help and solace if I could but you're so busy avoiding real connection (to avoid the pain), you're too much of a moving target for love, too. Ta,ta.

"In the end, those who are likely to have more knowledge; who have more ability to analyze carefully as well as to imagine creatively and rigorously; who have been strongly tested and held to high standards; and who have engaged seriously with the activity and energies of [this forum], such individuals are likely to lead, not only lives of personal fulfillment, but also effective lives in the service of others and of society as a whole."

R

PS Just for the record, the quote is attributable to Neil L. Rudenstine, 26th President of Harvard University - and he knew a thing or two!!!

[rosencrantz]

Now, where was I...oh yes - the difference between being voiceless and speechless.  

I've been quite speechless this week seeing all the poison being distributed amongst the different threads by guests but I was aware that, although the ultimate EFFECT was the same, it didn't FEEL the same as being voiceless.

And this morning I realised what the difference is.

Voiceless is when you don't exist (so ACONS and spouses of Ns will be voiceless)

Speechless is when someone takes your breath away.  

Voiceless gets cancer of the throat (vocal chords); Speechless gets asthma and emphysema (lungs).

We all of us certainly 'exist' on this Board (a pause here to send a mega hug to all of us working through the issues relating to voicelessness) but some 'guests' are so terrified of this fact (others...EXIST!!!????) that they are determined to crush the life out of us.

Of course the clever thing about 'N's is the way they distort the truth.  There's always a grain of truth behind what they say which makes them so believable and gives them the power to create such hurt, such pain and such terror in others.
 
Yes, very intelligent (IQ vs EQ).

Yes, great power trip.

Can't quite see the joy in it myself.  But reminds me that Scott Peck called them the people of the lie.  And he defined them as evil.

We softies might have a sharp intake of breath at that word - but don't worry, it makes THEM feel more important.  "Cor! Me? Evil!!! Wow!!!!!"

But it's a warning to the rest of us to keep out of their way.

Spitefulness is a sign of narcissism; unrelenting spite is a sad way of life.  

But they are in much deeper trouble than we'll ever be.

Love to all
R

[Discounted Girl]

erase

[lynn]

Hi friends,

This message board has been a life saver for me.  A way for me to see my life in a clearer way through your experiences.  It is a way for me to feel less alone in my own skin.  

I value your thoughts and ideas.  I value that you care enough about me to write a response.  I value that you have been through a life experience and you are willing to share your perspective with others.  

I acknowledge that by posting my thoughts in a public forum, I may get supportive responses and I may get unsupportive responses.  While I prefer a safe, caring response... I'm willing to take whatever I get.  There is value in both types of posting.  I can compare, contrast opinions and through that process, I gain insight.

You see, I am not voiceless if someone is listening.  My guess is that there are a whole heck of a lot more kind, caring and supportive people in this bit of cyberspace than most anywhere else.  My input is to not focus on the unsupportive posts and instead encourage and nurture the folks who really need a place to talk.

Thank you (to all of you) for being here for me.  

lynn

[rosencrantz]

Spats are part of what goes on here, but the relentless pursuit of individuals across and between threads is quite astonishing. We've never had that before.

I've been very fed up that there's been so much nastiness on the forum recently as it makes it a very unsafe place for people who are feeling particularly vulnerable - and ACONs are traditionally particularly vulnerable to the negative opinions of others.  Perhaps our guests are not ACONs and don't understand the damaging impact of what they are doing.

This is certainly not a 'huggy' forum - it's a very rigorous one - and we have no rules - that's OK - we can create and re-create our own community as best we can - but, sadly, too many people are taking potshots whilst well hidden by the freedom of their anonymity (road rage rules behind the anonymity of a  steering wheel, doesn't it) and for that reason I think guests who wish to post should be required to register.

We have a right to our individual voice, but with rights come responsibilities - and I think we have a responsibility not to use that voice to pursue and bully others.
R

[Anonymous]

Spats are part of what goes on here, but the relentless pursuit of individuals across and between threads is quite astonishing. We've never had that before.

We have a right to our individual voice, but with rights come responsibilities - and I think we have a responsibility not to use that voice to pursue and bully others.
R

I have to agree with you, you have a valid point. And yet at the same time when I read the latest posts, a lot of which are by you, I feel you are doing this exact thing that you denounce, to ALL Guests, without due consideration or placing yourself under the same set of rules. As this forum isn't just about voicelessness, it's also about emotional survival and as you don't know why the person posts as guest it then becomes a matter of what they are saying, and then if what they say is encouraging or sympathetic which is expressed to offer support to help someone else's emotional survival then that's positive. Thanks Lynn for expressing your acceptance by addressing us all as friends.

I quote Nic now "Shields Up"
Preparing for impact.

Guest

[Anonymous]

Rosencrantz wrote:

"too many people are taking potshots whilst well hidden by the freedom of their anonymity (road rage rules behind the anonymity of a steering wheel, doesn't it) and for that reason I think guests who wish to post should be required to register."

-----------------

Why should I not be able to post as "guest' because a small group of frequent message posters cannot control themselves emotionally?  Not fair.

These are the trials and tribulations of unmoderated groups. They are just like usenet.   The person responsible for creating the board needs to impliment rules and each board should have a moderator/s to uhold the rules.  

Arguments break out on moderated boards as well, but the difference is that they are stopped in a good amount of time, and disagreeable parties who won't let up are stopped from posting.  

It is *mostly* peaceful on moderated groups, and the same predictable fighting consistently happens when groups are not moderated...

Sad what it says about humanity and our ability for natural tolerance and compassion, especially in groups like this whose topics are such that the  participants have already been treated badly in their lives....  But if the shoe fits...

[/b]

[Lizbeth]

Unfortunately, because of these "guest" posters not being identifiable by a consistent nametag, they can't be stopped so they can go on posting in an abusive and N manner.  Other, non-abusive guests are risking being lumped in with the bad guest posters and will eventually be ignored because named posters run the risk of being abused for taking time to post a response.   This will be the last post I make in response to a Guest because of that very reason.  The only way to deal with an N is no contact, and there is no way to know which guests are N or not.   The very guests who seem so reasonable could also be posting in the continually abusive manner we have seen here lately.

----------------------------------------
Why should I not be able to post as "guest' because a small group of frequent message posters cannot control themselves emotionally?  Not fair.

These are the trials and tribulations of unmoderated groups. They are just like usenet.   The person responsible for creating the board needs to impliment rules and each board should have a moderator/s to uhold the rules.  

Arguments break out on moderated boards as well, but the difference is that they are stopped in a good amount of time, and disagreeable parties who won't let up are stopped from posting.  

It is *mostly* peaceful on moderated groups, and the same predictable fighting consistently happens when groups are not moderated...

Sad what it says about humanity and our ability for natural tolerance and compassion, especially in groups like this whose topics are such that the  participants have already been treated badly in their lives....  But if the shoe fits...

[/b][/quote]

[rosencrantz]

And yet at the same time when I read the latest posts, a lot of which are by you, I feel you are doing this exact thing that you denounce, to ALL Guests, without due consideration or placing yourself under the same set of rules.

I am not - and have never - pursued individuals across threads and bullied them - what nonsense!  

On the other hand, I note that YOU are making generalisations - about my posts - rather than responding to them individually. The posts I have made over the past 24 hours are very varied in content and purpose.  (YOU think it's OK to lump all the Rosencrantzs together!!!    )

'Guests' expect the rest of us to work really hard at sorting out who's who and who's posted what and yet we have no context for them.  How can we know who they are and give them due consideration?  It's simply not coming from a rational and healthy place to have that kind of expectation of others.  Especially when they are then unhappy to be 'lumped together'.  If you share a name, you are inevitably 'lumped together' - it's rational, human and normal!!!

If what they say is encouraging or sympathetic which is expressed to offer support to help someone else's emotional survival then that's positive.

 

I'm sorry - but just because somebody thinks they mean well, doesn't mean that their input or impact is positive.  I take my support from people I trust whose opinions I've listened to over time - and I know that even when I listen to their advice,  I'll still have my antennae open for their own 'unhealthy bits' (because I know where they are coming from) and make sure they don't harm me.  If 'guests' don't want to be sufficiently involved to build trust, then it makes their advice, albeit well-meaning, ineffectual.

I do understand where you are coming from but you can't have it both ways.  You may want it both ways but it just isn't a reasonable/rational expectation.  And if you can't turn it around to put yourself in the other person's shoes...

(In case you didn't notice, I just played the empathy card!)

Sorry - however much I attempt to neutralise it,  it is inevitable that my response to you will be coloured by all the voices that 'Guests' have expressed on the forum recently.  
R

[seeker]

Dear Rosen, Lynn, and all,

Rosencranz, I think your comments here are wise, with one of your points being (I think...if I may rephrase) "Use this board and read messages at your own risk, "  sort of a caveat emptor.  This is my policy also.

Lynn, this is so wonderfully concise and on target:

I am not voiceless if someone is listening.

I'm tempted to put it in my profile as a little signoff quote   .  Hooray and touche!  

Seeker

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, because of these "guest" posters not being identifiable by a consistent nametag, they can't be stopped so they can go on posting in an abusive and N manner. Other, non-abusive guests are risking being lumped in with the bad guest posters and will eventually be ignored because named posters run the risk of being abused for taking time to post a response. This will be the last post I make in response to a Guest because of that very reason.

I think the silly or abusive posts are pretty apparent at first glance, they are just plain old babyish attention seeking, and the answer is indeed IGNORE THEM!
There are plenty of genuine ( guest or named ) posts to keep the flow of the board.
I guess most boards attract internet parasites from time to time.