extended family issues grrrrr.

[Anonymous]

I have very little contact with my extended family until today I called my sister. It's been weeks since we spoke, and getting less and less over the past two years since I cut my father out.
She has called me twice in this time, I called her about ten times.

The contempt and lack of understanding she revealed today floored me for a while, I didn't know what to say.
There were long periods where neither said anything, I could hear her angry sniffing though, and though she says she feels the same about our father she would never be so cruel as to tell him ( in case he commits suicide- he's borderline pd we think & often threatens to )treat him as I have ( telling him not to telephone us ) and she just listens to him rambling on occasionally and switches her phone off the rest of the time.
BUT SHE SAYS HEDOESN'T MAKE HER STRESSED- well he does me!

She says then I have an obligation to let him know exactly how I feel about him ( she didn't mention whether she has the same obligation! )

So she knows the effect he has on me, she knows I have tried to deal with it as calmly as possible without a big family row, and she thinks I should be more 'up front'.

Is this game-playing, resentment because I don't have to listen to him? I don't know, but looks like there goes another relationship in my extended family.

I'm just venting really, I know she has no more right to stir things up than I have to say she should tell Dad exactly the same things she feels/ does.

But I snapped at my little boy earlier, and so I wanted to put the bad feeling somewhere quick before they take hold of me yet again!

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't write off your sister so quickly. She may be having a hard time with your father. Maybe she feels the entire burden is on her. It could be that your father is nagging her about you, demanding to know why you aren't talking to him. And she has been making excuses for you and listening to a lot of complaining. She may have a harder time setting boundaries and is basically taking out her frustrations on you. That's my guess.

bunny

[surf14]

I guess I'm confused; sounds like your sister humors your dad and yet is suggesting that you be more up front  and tell him how you really feel which is something you've done in the past by telling him not to phone.  Doesn't sound like this went over too well back then and I don't see how being more up front with him now would be any better tolerated.  Are  you being set up?  Borderlines are notorious for splitting and it sounds like this is what your dad has done with your sister; now she sounds like she is speaking on his behalf.  Be careful!

[Anonymous]

To Guest with extended family issues, hi.

I'd like to express a different take on this, leaning closer to bunny's comments and asking some questions which I don't need you to answer, it's just food for thought.

You said you rang her.
 
Who bought dad into the conversation? If it was you then it's possible she was reacting, feeling like the ham in the sandwich, and maybe was threatened by feeling like you expect her to take your side against dad's. You say she's doing things to try to control his contact with her, things which she shares with you. By doing these things, like not answering the phone, it seems she may feel she's setting some boundaries.

If she bought dad up first, and then criticised you for your feelings and attitudes and comments, is it possible to discuss with her the option of you 2 sisters having contact and a relationship where dad is excluded from the conversations. Setting some mutually supportive boundaries which include placing no expectation on each to relate to dad in each other's way. Can you ssk her to not bring dad up when you ring her, because it just drives a wedge between the 2 of you and causes you grief. Can you ask her if she thinks it's possible that the 2 of you can relate separately as sisters and have a relationship and conversations where you mutually agree not to talk about dad and develop your own relationship.

I've done this type of thing with my family members who used to often bring up my estranged parent. Whenever it happened it would bring memories back that I wanted to leave behind and we would sometimes end up having unpleasant disagreements which left me feeling even more isolated and misunderstood. But since requesting, for my peace of mind's sake, for them not to bring the parent up to me, I have on the whole received good cooperation with understanding. The benefits have been that we have so much more to talk about that's interesting and enjoyable and don't get into the dramas we used because of mixed up feelings of loyalty.

As far as your little boy goes and how bad you must feel for snapping at him, you're human and sounds to me like you're sorting through a lot. I'm glad you recognised it was inappropriate and found somewhere more appropriate to vent. That's what happens sometimes, isn't it, when we're confused by what hurts us. And feeling misunderstood. It's so important to look within and get an understanding of our weaknesses inherited from unhealthy parenting. This way we can stop passing on our own particular family's illness to the next generation. We can be different and so much healthier than how are parents were. Wishing you and your son happiness.

Guest.

[Anonymous]

thanks for your replies/ thoughts.

One line stood out
Are you being set up? Borderlines are notorious for splitting and it sounds like this is what your dad has done with your sister; now she sounds like she is speaking on his behalf.

because I felt during the conversation two or three times that she was holding up the telephone for someone else to hear, I could tell the background noise level changes somehow ( though I did wonder if I am getting paranoid! )

I felt like something had definitely switched in our relationship, and that she now identified with Dad more, whereas before we always seemed to agree, and to support each other.

She is afraid he'll self-harm.
I see that as his responsibility not mine.
She says I am cruel.
I haven't been, and I write regularly and send gifts and photographs.

I still don't get why I have less integrity by ignoring him and why I have to be the one keeps confronting him, seems like a resentment has built up because she doesn't feel able to do the same.
She kept saying today 'this is where we go wrong' ( in our dealings with him ) and 'you need to write and let him know exactly how he stands'

Maybe he's putting her under pressure to take sides, but we've discussed & experienced this often enough for her to know yes, that's what he does!

I feel calmer now, and have written him a letter. But I'm not going to send it until I feel it was my choice to do so not a manipulation by my sister- who seems to get more like our parents every year...

I don't like passive-aggressive people very much.

[Anonymous]

When your sister says, "You need to do XYZ," you can respond, "No, I don't need to do that. Maybe you would like me to do it, but I don't see it that way. I have a different view on it." Set boundaries with her as well as with your father. You don't have to buy into whatever she says.

bunny

[surf14]

Yes, trust your gut instincts.  If you think you smell a rat there is usually a rat in the house.  You can tell immediately when someone shifts their support and suddenly you are out on a limb.  The boundary setting will continue to create discomfort for you but its important to do that or you'll be swallowed up.
Good luck!    

[Anonymous]

thanks.

Isn't it strange how your birth family can push buttons no one else can?!

Most people I know don't seem to think my sister is a very nice person, but I've always defended her and I know part of it is I wanted an ally within our family and she was the closest I got to it.

But she's definitely never been on my cheerleading squad!

[surf14]

Evaluating that more closely now is very important for your own sense of empowerment; look at the patterns of behavior that have been in place for a long time and become very clear about them.  Family of origin's will push buttons like no one else can; just don't let yourself be victimized by it anymore.   surf14

[Anonymous]

something hit me hard tonight: how much my desired self-image shapes my behaviour.

I always want to be the sensible, sane member of the family who finds answers and helps the others. Why? there has to be a big ego- reward for such thankless output.

Have I projected myself in my mind to sacrificial parent role in all these relationships? Am I always on the lookout for someone to 'save' me?

I KNOW one of the reasons I frequently do not let go is because I already have an image of what SHOULD be.

I love
Wendy Cope's poem:


Defining the problem

I can't forgive you. Even if I could,
You wouldn't pardon me for seeing through you.
And yet I cannot cure myself of love
For what I thought you were before I knew you.


********

required reading for n. people?!

[Discounted Girl]

yep --- mourning the loss of something you never had sure is difficult. You can't reach out and grab anything, not even an essence left over from something that vanished.

That is quite a wonderful poem posted above, thank you.  I have also often wondered how it could be that a lot of us turned out to be so sensitive and attuned to the feelings of others, paying attention to their comfort levels -- quite a lovely set of attributes if practiced in moderation. Maybe it's the result another quote I saw on another thread last week. Pardon me, but I cannot remember who posted it, but thank you. It said:

Suffering nourishes compassion.

[surf14]

Hi Discounted Girl and Guest;  I had posted the quote by Thich Nhat Hanh which states "suffering nourshes compassion". It came from his book "Peace is Every Step"  He talks about having compassion for the ones who abused us as they were also abused.  Intellectually  I know this is true but emotionally I have trouble with it because one still has free will to choose how to act and if you know how painful the abuse was for you, why pass it on?  I think Thich's quote explains tho for those of us who were abused, but developed sensitive and caring dispositions,  how this comes to be.

 Guest; "I always want to be the sensible, sane member of the family who finds answers and helps the others. Why? there has to be a big ego- reward for such thankless output."  I really don't think its the ego reward you're looking for but more likely a desire to take the misery and dis-ease in the family and make it right and healthy; isn't that what love and caring are?  There is always the fantasy, that our families and those we love can really change and finally be healthy the way it was lt meant to be.  You're probably the healthiest one in the family so how could you not want to save then from their illness?  The unfortunate thing is to realize that you can't do this for them;  ultimately if one is to bow out of the dance I guess it requires acceptance of the way things are and the fact that you can't save them.  So unfortunate!!!     I empathize more than I care to admit.  Aloha

[rosencrantz]

I always want to be the sensible, sane member of the family who finds answers and helps the others. Why?

Why?  Because there's nobody else around to take that role in your family - and then it becomes a habit.  Your're making an unsafe world a safe place for others and, ultimately, yourself.

Try not to use this awareness to put yourself down (eg criticise for ego trip).  I think this kind of realisation is an important 'stage' in moving on.  It can be a skill and you can still use it if you can bring in some 'humility'.

Take care.

R

[Anonymous]

You're probably the healthiest one in the family so how could you not want to save then from their illness?

thanks. no one ever stated that before.
It's true, the irony being that they think I'm mad! for not seeing things as they do.

It can be a skill and you can still use it if you can bring in some 'humility'.

yes, I do use it all the time, here's an example. I made a new friend at a conference recently, she was giving a talk and made that common mistake of handing out papers then reading them to us, it was clear she was nervous. I decided to help her out & threw out several questions I knew she was passionate about ( we had met before ) then everyone joined in a fantastic discussion instead of sitting feeling bored and patronised at being read to. She thanked me afterwards.

Someone once said to me years ago that I 'build bridges' and its true, and I have friends all over the world for it, its brought many things to my life.

The reason maybe I call it an ego-trip is because if I told that story to dad, h or sister they would see it as one, I clearly haven't got their negative feedback out of my head yet.

I have friends who give me great feedback, but not a family member and not so far a partner.

When I do occasionally meet a man who wants to get to know me in ways my partner doesn't I still feel obligated to the marriage. So more work there, my therapy sessions are very busy!

[sagepilon]

My mother has Borderline, Narcissistic PD.  My brother is always telling me that I'm mean to our mother because I choose not to deal with her.  I don't talk to her anymore or let her see my son either. I totally understand how you feel.

I think my brother deals with her because he feels guilty.  I no longer feel guilty.  I agree with you- she also stresses me out.  I think it's more healthy to set boundaries for my own emotional survival.