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signs?

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pandora:
At the risk of over-posting I thought I would start a new thread.

Do any of you believe in signs?  from God or otherwise?   I ask because I find myself intently looking for signs as to whether to stay or go.  A few things have happened that I can't help but see as very significant.

First, several months ago my husband and I joined a girlfriend and her family for thanksgiving.  N and I had had a very odd confrontation the evening before.  At the gathering, he was very physically affectionate toward me in an over-the-top way - almost groping.  Fast forward to a few weeks ago.  I have talked a lot to my girlfriend about my situation, and she happened to mention to her mom that a friend of hers (she did not say it was me) needed some recommendations for a divorce lawyer.  Her mom's first response was "is it the couple that was over here at thanksgiving?"  This from a woman who had only seen me and N together once for a few hours.  Obviously she noticed something!

Second, my dad, who is the most conservative person on the planet and who is a strong opponent of divorce, told me that given what I had told him about N, his actions,and what the therapist says about the N-trait being unlikely to ever change, I should seriously consider whether I want to stay married.  To me, this was almost the equivalent of God himself saying that it's OK for me to leave.

Third, I talked to N's mother. who is herself a very sweet and understanding person.  She is well aware of her son' s self-absorption.  I just felt that I had to let her know how things were going, and I told her that I love N, but that I don't know if I can stay married to him.  Her response was that I should make taking care of myself my first priority, that no man (not even her son) was worth putting up with bad treatment, and that she would always regard me with love and affection no matter what.  

what do you think?  Did any of you have similar things happen as you were trying to evaluate whether to stay with or leave an N spouse?  

Thanks again to all for listening! PAndora

Anonymous:
my first thought is that you should learn to trust your own evaluation of what's best for you ( which I know takes time )

Sure, it's great when people you love whose opinion you value support you and look out for what's best for you. It's great when people realise and acknowledge that despite your best efforts, your n-partner is impossible.

But be prepared for if they didn't, or if N sweeps them off their feet with the same eloquence he often bewilders you.

It's your life. Do what is best for YOU. You only have to answer to yourself.

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: pandora ---

Do any of you believe in signs?  from God or otherwise?   I ask because I find myself intently looking for signs as to whether to stay or go.  A few things have happened that I can't help but see as very significant.

I have talked a lot to my girlfriend about my situation
Second, my dad, Third, I talked to N's mother.

what do you think?  Did any of you have similar things happen as you were trying to evaluate whether to stay with or leave an N spouse?  

Thanks again to all for listening! PAndora
--- End quote ---


Pandora, you really got me thinking with this post of yours. The first thing I noticed is that you are obviously comfortable in being able to talk to your and his family and your friends. I was wondering if this makes him comfortable or uncomfortable. I think it's healthy, by the way, so long as there is  due consideration and respect when confiding in others, for our spouse's dignity. There are problems that can result from this, as was the case with my spouse, where my spouse accused me of, and felt that I didn't accurately represent both sides of the story to family and friends, and I decided finally that it wasn't my job to present any view but my own. This caused some conflict and withdrawal for a while. I encouraged my spouse to do the same, talk with others, friends and family, and when this happened I finally understood how my spouse felt. So that was a dificult period to navigate.

As far as looking for signs from God or people, I don't know? I feel it very much hinges on the interpretation we place on it. Sort of like dream analysis. I've thought at different times maybe I've had signs, but more in the concrete than the abstract. Like when people say things like, "How can you live with someone who does that!" I take that as a sign, a sign that I am de-sensitised to abuse. And that I need to continue the work of construction in my life, of constructing better expectations for myself in my relationships. So that before any outsider comments, I've said to myself and to the other party first, "I will not tolerate that. It's not, or no longer unacceptable."

In the end Pandora, it comes down to knowing yourself. Learning about yourself, the you that maybe wasn't fully developed  when you entered this relationship.

My spouse and I as part of marriage therapy did an on-line Keirsey personality test. My spouse and I came up as the same in some major ways. My spouse is a Guardian ISTJ (Introvert, Sensation, Thinking, Judging)and I'm a Guardian (Extrovert, Sensation, Feeling, Judging). We have a lot of common ground but tended to have major conflict over methodology. Like your dishwasher incident. Arguing over how things should be done. Understanding our personality types/temperaments has been invaluable in reducing conflict and stress in our relationship. Now we have boundaried the way we go about things in the home and with the children. Interestingly, we have both found that so much of our conflict sprang from our different personal styles.

In your situation I'm sure you will find your way, because you have an enquiring mind, and you are willing to share. I think learning about our true selves and who we 'really' are is the doorway to our freedom. Once we know who we are, we then know where we are 'meant' to be, and what we are 'meant' to be doing. Knowing who we are, we experience a newness of life that energises us from the inside, and so much of what once confused us and caused us tremendous pain simply ceases to exist.
This is the road I'm on, because for so long 'voicelessness' was my middle name. I hurt so much, and in experiencing this hurt, I also hurt others. That's changing, and I'm so glad about it. It's harder I think when we  discover this in a relationship. Because so much needs to change, and the other party has to try and work out what the hecks going on, and we sometimes don't even know ourselves. All the best to you Pandora, and this post of yours has helped me immensely. In putting my ideas down I feel clearer on certain personal issues. Thankyou.

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Anonymous:
I would prey honestly

I presume this was a typo!

But I have to say its how I've truly felt after most dealings ( however apparently trivial- and especially in the US) -encountering religion (there is a fanaticism of right-wing religion and accepted inequality in America which I have yet to meet the equal anyplace else )

Fortunately I am an atheist and completely devoid of superstition, this frees me to make my own informed choices in judgement, recovery and politics.

Anonymous:
My spin on God's involvement at this level is similar to the one in the movie, 'Francis'. This was the true story about the actress Francis Farmer played by who the heck was it. Oh yeah, Jessica Lange. Poor Francis was just a woman ahead of her time, that's all, with a complete control-freak mother. That was such a good movie about how control-freak mother's can cause so much devastation. Frances was a free thinker and she ended up, because she was totally misunderstood, being lobotomised. Anyway, in the beginning of the movie she's young and in school and writes an assignment and in the assignment she argues about God's level of involvement in our everyday lives. She reads it out to the class and infuriates her teacher, the class, her parents, everybody. It went something like this, "Today I prayed for God to help me find my red hat." Then she poses the argument that how come God can get involved at that level detail in her life, by helping her find her red hat, but then He, the very same God, doesn't bother to help starving children or stop atrocities and cruelty from happening in the world. She was accused of being a communist, I think.

Anyway, coming from a heavy christian background this affected me, and has stuck with me. People praying for God to help them find their car keys, or to win the lottery. This aspect of the movie changed my views somewhat, so even now I may believe in a personal Higher Power, or possibly even be a pantheist, but in the end I have realised this. I have to live with my life's choices and so do my children. So my particular religious observance in choosing which direction to take is this, it's a case of the old WW11 saying,  "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition," or the other one "Pray for the best and prepare for the worst." In other words, we have to take responsibility for our own lives and futures to the best of our conscious ability, and don't wait for anyone or anything else to do it for us. Don't wait for mystical experiences that may never come, or may not even be real, or may just be the reult of wishful thinking or a misinterpreation.

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