What do I do?

[skidz]

Hi,
obviously I am new here. I am dealing with the new knowledge that my mother is a N. I have actually known for years but lived in denial up until yesterday. My mother who is 65 had a stroke Jan 1. I have three other siblings but they have ran the other way.... I have been taking care of her since the stroke. Every other week she is at my house for three or more days. She lives a great distance from me and refuses to stay with me. Which is probably best for my son. This last visit was horrible. My son came to me and told me that he cant take the way she talks to him anymore and wanted to go to his friends house. I encouraged him to go and the truth is I wanted him to stay so bad so I could have someone in the house to laugh with. He usually stays in his room when she is here and I always end up in his room playing video games with him or I go to my room to sleep. I had a miscarriage two days before my mother had her stroke. I almost bled to death from severe hemmoraging. I stayed with my mother the week she was in the hospital being the hospital was an hour away from where I lived. Not that it mattered at the time because she was so ill and couldnt help herself. The NICU nurses let me stay the entire time because she was so much of a handful and needed constant attention I helped with everything that I was able to do without interfering with the nurses. She stayed with me for two weeks after she was released from the hospital. Each and every day she gained strength and her sight in her left eye. She began preparing meals to prove that she could live independantly. I gave in and took her home the day she verbally attacked my son because he and his best friend were laughing at each other while they were fake burping. I was laughing with them and got in trouble myself for encouraging such rude behaviour. I did tell her that he is raised so more differently than I was and doesnt understand why you yell at him for having fun. (He does mind his manners out in public....) This last visit was once again full of verbal attacks I finally tried to talk to her. Big mistake because she blew up and said some bad words at me and stomped. I took her home the following day of the blow up. On her insistance. It was snowing horribly and she lives 2 1/2 hours from me in the mountains. She showed no concern for this drive.... I drove her home stopped to get her groceries and proceeded up a very snowy mountain.  I just found out last monday that we are pregnant again. Yeahhhhhh... but she showed no concern for the fact that I am a high risk pregnancy and insisted I drive her home in the snow. My daughter also died at her home in 1995 from a dog bite, My mothers dog...I hate going to her house and have expressed this many times over. The only answer I get is she has dealt with it and doesnt understand why I havent.... I held her up when my daughter died. I held her up when I was growing up. My siblings left the house by the time I was 10. If she wasnt sleeping she wasnt home. I raised myself on the streets but I am a survivor of this all or so I thought until yesterday. I dropped her stuff off and told her I was going home. She didnt say thank you or have a safe trip. She didnt say I love you and call me when you arrive home. I sat in my car dumbfounded and then got so angry. For the first time in my life I got angry with her. It felt good but also a huge betrayel. On the way home I was going over some of what little converstation there was because she was pouting about my telling her to leave my son alone. I discovered that three different times she inadvertantly threatened suicide. This is a pattern of hers and I have always held the end of responsiblity. I am my mothers therapist, Yesterday I found that I no longer want to be in the role she placed me in as a child. So many things have and still are going through my head. Fear is the biggest because there is going to be ramifications if I dont contact her or try to run suicide prevention. In mid Jan. I had a breakdown. I hit "The Wall". I couldnt process thoughts and barely knew who I was. I did what I could to hide it from my son, he is the reason I had to fight to emerge back into life. The only concern I have right now is for my unborn child and my son. I dont think I have the strength to take care of my mother anymore. I dont have the courage to say so to her either. What do I do? Do I let her go off and make herself so ill again that she winds back up in the hospital. Do I ignore her and fear that she will attempt suicide and succeed? I woke up at three this am finding all these questions running through my head. I feel like a horrible monster that is leaving her elderly sick mother to defend herself. I then find myself so angry with her and myself for letting it get this far. Then I go to thoughts of suicide. This is just the tip as most of you probably already know that... I am so confused and at a crossroads. Thank you for reading and letting me vent.
Skiddlez

[Anonymous]

Hi skiddlez and welcome welcome welcome.

I don't know what to say after reading your story. So many here are better equipped than me. But first, you must take care of yourself and your son and your yet to be born child first and foremost. This mother of yours (I'm tempted to call her an old crow) will survive. She has this far. And from what you've been through, she's survived at your expense. Have you had counselling? You need somebody there on hand to help you work throught his. Here is good too. When you are pregnant(especially) the best thing you can do is avoid situations and people who cause you anxiety. It just increases risks, as you would know. Now is not the time to worry about her. Yes she's had a stroke but by the sound of it she' recovering enough to give everybody a hard time. The local maternity doctor or hospital you would be visiting would have a counsellor available for their patients. Most do nowdays. I'd speak to them about the enormous stress you are under. Also, I'd keep your child as far away from this person till you've worked out which way is up.

Keep in touch, and keep talking

Guest

[Anonymous]

Just bringing this to the topic.

[Anonymous]

Hi skidz, I came back to your post because I have been thinking about you and wanted to bring it back to the top also. I got so angry re-reading your post. Your son is right in how he feels. Listen to him. He doesn't like her being around for good reason. He can't take the way she talks to him. He's a smart boy. I'd say he hates the way she treats you to. You are not your mother's mother. Your responsibility is to your own children. She has got your head all confused with her making you, and you trying to her 'parent and protector.' You aren't. You are her child. If she can't fit that role of mother/guardian/caretaker/friend she has no right to try to create another role for herself, like behaving like your child and expecting you to care for her like one. I don't know how serious her suicide threats are, but if they constantly have you running after her, looking after her and excusing her crap, then I'd say they are a 'tool' and 'weapon' in her arsenal. Your siblings were right in cutting her out. She has lost any 'rights' to the 'priviledges of the aged parent' if she neglected her children so woefully. This priviledge to be cared for by our children in our old age is earned by good and healthy our parenting of our children. And by our obvious best endeavours. I think any parent who has consistently or inconsistently abused their children loses those rights and many others. Like they also lose the right to have anything to do with their grandchildren if they are emotionally destructive with them and cause chaos in their homes. In some situations they have to be 'blacklisted.' Your mother sounds like one of these cases to me. Only you can make these types of decisions of course. And it takes time and revelation and eventually guts. Have you ever read about the 'Stockholm Syndrome.' Plug it into a net search, it's very interesting reading. I eventually cut my parent out, but I was in my 40's. It wasn't easy but I felt my responsibility to my children was the only priority in the end. And I'm glad I did and so are my children. I nearly miscarried due to 'constant put-downs, lies, crap hysteria and nonsense stress' my parent went on with, and it was then I realised that my parent didn't love me, but was addicted to controlling me and demeaning me and enjoyed watching me squirm. When I saw my parent was also doing it to my children I used to try to deal with it by keeping contact to minimum, but it just got worse. So bad that one child would go under the bed whenever the granparent was around. Skidz, your story is a horror story, where your mother plays centre stage. I encourage you to share here and read many stories here. It is a learning experience that will help you. Once again I urge you to seek out counselling for yourself and maybe even your son. It is available through community centres and reputable churches. The other forum here has excellent reading recommendations and web links. You have experienced so much pain and grief and with this new life (baby) coming into your family it's time for a new beginning for you and your family. I wish you well in your journey.

Guest

[rosencrantz]

Hi skidz and welcome.

A boy is a boy is a boy.  Fake burps and rude words are what boys thrive on!  He's a great son!!  

Has your mother ever taken responsiblity for YOU??  I thought not.  So why do you have responsibility for HER???

You're in a transition at the moment - this feels lousy but is A Good Thing!!  

It is healthy to feel angry!!!  You have good reason to BE angry!!

Your daughter died - dog bite - mom's dog - get over it  - YIKES!  Horror story.  My anger, rage and emotion about that would be too overwhelming to get anywhere near in twenty decades!!!

Pregnancy is a great excuse to put yourself first.  You just had a miscarriage - tell her the doctor told you not to move out of the house!!!  You can't even move out of the armchair to answer the phone.  Doesn't matter what you say, just get her off your back so you and your baby can commune good things to each other.

As far as your mother is concerned - yeuch!  

50 million times, you are not a monster and you are not responsible for somebody else's suicide attempts.  

It seems to me that if it's possible to be  responsible for somebody else's suicide, you'd have to have spent many hours mentally and emotionally actively torturing, toying with and tormenting an imprisoned victim.

Nobody is responsible for the way other people decide to 'act out' their petty ways.  If you feel responsible, it's probably the result of guilt induced by her manipulative ways.  I'm sure you'll spot them much better from now on!!!  
R

[Anonymous]

your mother is a pretty vile person, and you are not going to get the support you need and deserve there no matter how long you hold on.

You've helped her when you could, now your boundaries need to change to protect your unborn child, yourself and your son.

She'll be angry as you withdraw, I'm tempted to say tell her you've dealt with it, so should she!

My father is borderline, and he kept us all on the hop for years with his angry suicide threats, now I see that as his business and his responsibility. But my sister and I rowed about it just this week, she thinks I am cruel. I feel much as Rozencrantz says- if you neglect your kids when they're young don't expect them to love and take care of you when you're old, if you make life unpleasant for people, don't expect them to visit etc.

Put yourself first now, you deserve it. Good luck with the pregnancy.

[skidz]

Thank you for the support.
I have always believed that if you dont take care of your children they will walk away and in the end they are all you have. I have a bumper sticker that says take care of your children... They choose your nursing home.  My father is also an N and I walked away from him years ago. He told my brother that he thinks fathers should have sex with their daughters to introduce them to that world.... My father has never seen my children. He also bought a rottwieler after my daughter died. Needless to say that was the final straw and I havent seen or talked to him since. Today I am so overwhelmed with so many emotions... Hate and anger are the main but guilt has a tendancy to creep in.....
My mother e-mails me everyday at my request to make sure she is still ok. She is secluded in the mountains. I have always checked with her everday.  I havent heard from her. This time I dont care... A part of me does and this brings angst but at the same time what she has done to my son is unforgiveable. Oh my goodness, thank you for opening my eyes to the harm she is causing him. I thought I did what I could to protect him from her harsh guidance and superiority. I talked to little man  a little about this last night and apologized profusely about what she has done and my letting her do that to him because I am to much of chicken to stop her. I usually end up smoothing the rough spots after she leaves. He unloaded so much last night. I told him how proud I was of him telling me about his feelings. I also told him how proud of him I was that he left and went to his friends house. He is the smartest person I know... He thought that was great when I told him that. He is in therapy. So much has happened to him in his short life. I cant stand the thought of him ever being the mental midget I am... I told my husband last night about what is happening at this moment. He said the same thing you guys are saying. He is reading the same things I am reading and says she is a classic N. That I am in no way shape or form responsible for her. He stood by me during the time she was in the hospital. He said that he was so worried about me because of the blood loss and the mental strain of losing the baby and her being so ill. In turn I was worried about him. He was so happy that we were pregnant. The only thing I remember when I was in the process of miscarrying was the devesataion and worry on his face. He told me that he lost respect for my mother when she was in the hospital and after. Not once did she ask how I was after our loss. Nor was she concerned about the fact that I almost died. He said he told her what happened and she didnt even blink...I made an excuse for her that it was the stroke, but ultimately it wasnt the stroke she was very lucid. She made the comment in the hospital, that now her children would have to stand up and take notice of her. This one comment began to open my eyes to her. What kind of person says that I thought to myself. Did she work herself into a frenzy to make her blood pressure go through the roof so her children would rally around her bedside? She did it again in less than a month... She is now refusing to take her antidepressants because of the expense. She will spend hundreds a month on her cigarettes but not for something that will help...  I know, I have to just walk away.
 Now for the hard part. Getting through this unscaved and guiltless. I am my own worst enemy.
  I have read some of the posts here. It is amazing to me how many people are going through this. Thank you for the support.
Skiddlez

[Anonymous]

Did she work herself into a frenzy to make her blood pressure go through the roof so her children would rally around her bedside?

I have had this too- my father will stop taking his bp meds or go on a drinking binge.
Its attention seeking big-style, typical borderline pd behaviour.

Did you say your mom received a diagnosis of narcissistic pd? Was this in the hospital last time?

[skidz]

Did she work herself into a frenzy to make her blood pressure go through the roof so her children would rally around her bedside?

I have had this too- my father will stop taking his bp meds or go on a drinking binge.
Its attention seeking big-style, typical borderline pd behaviour.

Do they not realize the self destruction? Why.....

Did you say your mom received a diagnosis of narcissistic pd? Was this in the hospital last time?

No, but I could  see the look of dread on the poor nurses in the hospital. They were so supportive of me and I couldnt understand the lack of real empathy towards my mother. The took very good care of her medically but basically ignored her rantings.  my sister in law is a therapist and recommended a book for me to read. The title escaped me so I began to search the net. Hence my finding this site. My brother and his wife have been  supportive thus far but keep their distance from mom.  My sister runs the other direction and hits the bottle. My oldest brother doesnt come around or tell her what is going on his life...

[skidz]

Hi skidz and welcome.

A boy is a boy is a boy.  Fake burps and rude words are what boys thrive on!  He's a great son!!  

Has your mother ever taken responsiblity for YOU??  I thought not.  So why do you have responsibility for HER???

You're in a transition at the moment - this feels lousy but is A Good Thing!!  

It is healthy to feel angry!!!  You have good reason to BE angry!!

Your daughter died - dog bite - mom's dog - get over it  - YIKES!  Horror story.  My anger, rage and emotion about that would be too overwhelming to get anywhere near in twenty decades!!!

Pregnancy is a great excuse to put yourself first.  You just had a miscarriage - tell her the doctor told you not to move out of the house!!!  You can't even move out of the armchair to answer the phone.  Doesn't matter what you say, just get her off your back so you and your baby can commune good things to each other.

As far as your mother is concerned - yeuch!  

50 million times, you are not a monster and you are not responsible for somebody else's suicide attempts.  

It seems to me that if it's possible to be  responsible for somebody else's suicide, you'd have to have spent many hours mentally and emotionally actively torturing, toying with and tormenting an imprisoned victim.

Nobody is responsible for the way other people decide to 'act out' their petty ways.  If you feel responsible, it's probably the result of guilt induced by her manipulative ways.  I'm sure you'll spot them much better from now on!!!  
R

I am getting there. My life has been full of NPD's... Scarey thought but you attract what you are..... arrrghhhh...
Yep my son is all boy... He is independant and is full of expressions. He is not afraid to tell me what is on his mind. I am just happy that he can laugh and enjoy his life. I was never able to laugh. He is an amazing person. I cant wait to see how great of a man he is going to be. He was in a musical on thurs. He had the lead. He stole the show. Before he came on to stage the poor kids on stage were so frightened and stiff. Once little man came into the spotlight they all let loose and had a great time. I wish I could relay how cool it was to see how the audience reacted to him. He had us all going and participating. He has been doing that since he was in kindergarten. Just his presence and smile is mind blowing to most adults. Sorry I could go on for hours about little man.

[Anonymous]

skidz,

I think you've sacrificed enough for this battle axe. She will make life miserable for everyone around her, if she's given the chance. I find it interesting that she lives secluded in the mountains and expects others to dash up there to take care of her. Forget it! She needs to get a grip on reality. Maybe if she receives less catering, she will start showing more respect for others. I really hope you can draw some boundaries with her. Your son is showing you the way. You're a great mom.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I could see the look of dread on the poor nurses in the hospital. They were so supportive of me and I couldnt understand the lack of real empathy towards my mother. The took very good care of her medically but basically ignored her rantings.

wow, that must have made her real mad!

Do you feel ready to separate your lives?

With my father it happened by degrees, over a couple of years. until now he's only allowed to write to us; periodically he tries to change this but I resist.

[skidz]

Hi everyone,
In so many ways I am so ready to just say no more to her. But and this is the big one. She has made no contact since fri and I am truly getting worried about her and the possiblity of another stroke. Is she holding off to see my reaction? I wake up in the wee a.m so worried about her. I work on an ambulance by profession and I know the early hours is when most people get the sickest.... My husband wants me to ignore her. He thinks it is just a ploy to suck me back in. Deep down I know it is but she is not that spring chicken she used to be either... I see sick elderly people all the time and wonder where their family is. I am beginning to understand. At the same time I feel a human being should never be left to feel alone. I have felt this way since I was a child. Perhaps it is just engrained because I was alone and hated it. I am so confused right now I dont know which way is up. I look at my son and know that I cant have her behaving the way she does towards him any more. I called my brother to see if she had checked in with him and he said no. He told me that I was in no way shape or form responsible if she does attempt suicide. I know this. He said that is just her way and always has been. He got sick of the drama. I told him that he has no idea how lucky he is that she never helped him out when he first moved out of the house. He is free from that wrath. He still is very bitter about going hungry and living in his car, after he was kicked out of the house for expressing his feelings towards her. Now that I think about it she kicked us all out of the house.
I guess I am just waiting for the other shoe to fall. I dont know when or what but I know it is coming.
Skiddlez

[seeker]

Hi Skiddlez,

I join the others in saying My Lord! what is she doing to you?!  

I just want to (gently) put this on the table: what's the worst thing that could happen?  What do you fear?  My guess is that perhaps you are concerned that your mother will die on "your watch" and you will feel a tremendous amount of guilt.  Is this it?

Your mother can take measures for contacting people in the case of emergency (there are various systems, etc.).  If these don't work and she chooses to remain where she is, that is her choice and her responsibility.  And she does not have to live with you.  There are other choices.  And they are hers to make.  

He unloaded so much last night. I told him how proud I was of him telling me about his feelings. I also told him how proud of him I was that he left and went to his friends house. He is the smartest person I know... He thought that was great when I told him that.

I loved this.  The fact that you were able to listen, hear, and acknowledge your son's anger showed so much love.  Peace, Seeker

[skidz]

you know seeker she can be a very intimidating woman. Yes I know I am 38 years old and if she tried to punch me in my stomach or slap my face off I can defend myself. BUT and thats the big one even my brother is afraid of her. Yep I just answered that she still has that power. Scarey huh? Her tongue is the meanest that I know. Oh man, I dont know why I cant just walk away...I had a dream that she was banging on my door and the fear oh man. I was runnng around my house like a lizard who just had been seperated from his tail.
It took alot of courage and time but I walked away from my father. I held no reserves in telling him why either. My siblings hold nothing back when he asked why. Mom is a whole mess. She and I were alone since I was 10. It was hell yes but she was also my mother.
Up until three years ago I have stood by her and have defended her. Slowly but surely I am emerging. The one time I stood up to her about being so terrible to my son, she did go into our guest room and pouted. She never apologized to my son and in turn made the house a violent silent storm. That is basically my life with her in a nutshell. Everyone is out to get her and I am the one who she hid behind. All the while making it look like she was the protector. She is so paranoid that she has almost shot me twice in the middle of the night. Once I was just going into her room after a nightmare, you know how you are still in that dreamstate but aware? The click of that 38 woke me up fast. The other incident I was getting up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water. Again that click of the 38 just made me freeze in my tracks. In her words "I" was lucky that she woke up and realized it was me. Yeah I was the lucky one. Waking from this is overwhelming but a very good revelation for me. It is good in a sense that I no longer have a choice but to create those boundaries for the sake of my son and my unborn child.
I dont consider myself a "good mother" I consider myself what a mother is supposed to be. I only want my son to grow up knowing he had a safe and healthy childhood. Life is hard after you leave the house and fighting the demons of your past along with the world is something I would hate to know he was going through. Thank you though, I wear my mommy badge with honor...
Skiddlez