It happens to men too.....

[chris]

Hi All,
 I am struck by how common it is for narcissists to be men, or perhaps it is just easier for ladies to open up about their experience?

However in my case (as a man) I have found out to my horror and disbelief that my wife (soon to be ex)of 4 years meets and exceeds all the criteria for NPD very well. She has always been such an acheiver

It has taken me nearly four months (with her in a different country) for me to slowly remove the spell or enchantment she has woven over me. I had to find out the truth the hard way, and it was not pleasant at all. In the end I confronted her about her behavior (on the phone) and as per normal her lies and denials were incredible, despite all the concrete evidence I had.

I fail to understand why she kept me around for so long, while she had other relationships and even worse how I managed to delude myself into believing everything she told me. I like to consider myself reasonably intelligent, however this entire sordid and disgusting story has made me question my intelligence and sanity at times.

In the end I realize how terribly she treated me, and even now on a daily basis I realize more and more of the things she has done to me in the past.

I guess the point is that I want the ladies out there to know that it happens to men too, and we definitely do suffer as well.
I have gone through the worst few months and years of my life thanks to this person, and it will take me a long time to truly recover and find myself once more.

All the best,
Chris

[Brigid]

Chris,
I'm sorry for what your stbex did to you.  I'm sure there are many n women out there (I certainly know a few and there are many here who have mothers or sisters who qualify(ied)), but I think that men are not as likely to seek out a support group to deal with it.  They are probably also less likely to go to therapy or find other means of identifying the behavior they were living with.  I would never have known my ex was n if my T had not diagnosed him (my T saw both of us for 6 weeks before my ex bailed out).

It is good that you have figured her out and moved far away.  The pain and grief will be with you for awhile, but eventually it will get better, you will get better and be so glad to be rid of her and that you did not have any children with her. 

The most important thing for you is to find out why you chose such a woman to have in your life in the first place, so you know how to avoid making that mistake again.  There is always a reason we allow these people access to us and our emotions and why we remain in the relationship while denying the abuse.  Those are the questions you need to work through, so you can ultimately be healthy and have the potential to find a healthy companion.

All the best,
Brigid

[gratitude28]

Hi Chris and Welcome!!!!
I think it is very true that men seek help less often. I have to tell you that my father has been married for almost 40 years to a raving N. I have realized lately that he has a modicum of understanding that something is not right... I am not sure how much of it he already knows. He grew up with a plainly evil mother who was an N. As long as he buys my mother stuff and plays her little games, she leaves him alone to do his hobbies and such. Fortunately for me, he protected me as a child and young adult to some extent and I escaped the cycle and married a wonderful man.
Rather than be mad about the situation, try to be grateful and realize that you are escaping it. Do you have children together???
Please feel free to vent here and explain and ask for feedback because this initial period will be a bit rough!!! Likewise, I agree with Brigid, you need to find out WHY you chose her...and keep youself from repeating the mistake.
(((((Chris))))))))
P.s. There are other men on this board!!! Hang around and I am sure they will chime in.
R/Beth

[Hopalong]

Welcome, Chris.

My mother is the Nish person in my life. My father was kind, self-effacing, endearing and honorable.

I think there are probably just as many N women as men (but you won't find them here seeking help). But perhaps in some cases (short of the violent rageful ones whose stories we also sadly hear here)...N women may be more covert or manipulative in the way they act it out, rather than the aggressive of many N males?

Glad you're here. Very sorry for what you've been through, but congratulations on your freedom and your awakening. Now you have a chance.

Hopalong

[seastorm]

Hi Chris,

Welcome!   Discovering the lies and betrayals of an N partner is devastating. Many of the people on this site can attest to that. So sorry you are going through this.
Just because the exN was dastardly does not stop the grief and loss from happening to you. This is a good place to come to vent and get support. You can tell your story here.
I went through three months of helll after separating from my N partner after seven years. I have been in therapy the whole time fortuneately. Let yourself have all the feelings that you will have over this. Ns can destroy people's spirits and  their trust in everything.

Don't blame yourself. They are predators who feed on kind and gentle people.

Sea storm

[mudpuppy]

Hey Chris,

Nice to see another guy here again, good to get a little balance in the hormone department.
Being fooled isn't a matter of being intelligent, in fact some of the biggest dopes I've ever met had brains the size of a pretty stout pumpkin. Being fooled is a matter of trust and betrayal. Smart people and idiots both want to believe others when they say nice and wonderful things to us. They prey on that desire and they're professionals at it. We're mere amateurs by comparison. Sounds like you didn't have kids, so if you can, count your blessings and hit the road, older, sadder and hopefully much wiser. Believe me every person here has looked back and kicked themselves hundreds of times for the stupid things we did and the now obvious signs we missed. All you can do is pocket the lessons and let time do the rest.

mud

[chris]

Hi Everyone,
Thank you for all the replies, it is great to get the support.

Luckily I do not have any kids, so it is a relief. I cannot imagine how tough that would be...
It has been very tough, but I am recovering. I have been seeing a therapist and it has helped.

Overall I think the three biggest elements that have helped me have been the distance from her, being able to distinguish fact from her version of the truth and an old and very close male friend who I can truly talk to.

It is amazing how these N's weave their amazing spells over you. I really lost my confidence, self esteem, you name it... I was a terrible wreck when it all happened.

One thing I did which I am not too proud of, but it definitely made things very clear (and awfully painful) was to gain access to her e-mail. It was an eye opening experience to contrast what she told me and what and who she was e-mailing to her friends and boyfriends.... It really opened my eyes to the painful truth of who she is. 

I can only recommend if you have doubts, or feel something is wrong, follow your intuition and check up on your partner....
I guess everyone here is already beyond that step, but perhaps there is someone who needs that final little push to do some checking.

Many thanks,
Chris

[axa]

Hi Chris,

welcome.  This is a good place and I am sorry you have had to suffer at the hands of an N.  I am glad she is out of the country, so is my XN now and somehow that feels better for me.  At least I know that I am not going to run into him somewhere.  I also think the distance can help your brain sort out fact from fantasy.  Nothing like distance for giving you perspective.

I can relate also to the bit of losing my confidence etc.  I am a smart, capable woman who ended up unable to make a decision about almost anything I felt so undermined.  Also what has really struck me is that so much of my energy went into trying to make sense of madness that I had no energy left for myself.  I do believe they are like vampire who suck the life out of their victims.

The good news is that I have not had any communicatoin with Xn for one month and two days and I feel alive, for the first time in such a long time.  My sense was I was always waiting, waiting for him to hear me, see me, things to get better, but it never does.  I am so pleased that you have seen the truth and have decided to save yourself.

I find it interesting your remorse at reading her emails.  I used to read XNs messages on his phone and felt like such a bad person for invading his privacy......... perspective....... he invaded my heart, head, life in such a destructive way.  I think that their behaiour is so nuts that one needs some concrete evidence of what is going on and even then it is hard to accept that you have been living with a sadistic, cruel, shallow person.

There are times when you will remember the "good times" and wonder if you had done this or that differently could it have been better...  not so.  The reason I am posting right now is because I have just had a bout of "maybe it was not so bad".  Came on the board and got it touch with reality.  IT WAS

Keep posting

axa

[Brigid]

Chris,

One thing I did which I am not too proud of, but it definitely made things very clear (and awfully painful) was to gain access to her e-mail. It was an eye opening experience to contrast what she told me and what and who she was e-mailing to her friends and boyfriends.... It really opened my eyes to the painful truth of who she is.

Please don't spend one more second feeling badly about doing this.  N's are consummate liars and sometimes it is necessary to stoop to their level to get to the truth.  I had to resort to tactics that I, too, am not proud of, but they got me the answers I needed to prove his secret behaviors--both sexual and financial.

CB,

Being a rescuer, I thought that I could make up for that damaging relationship by loving him enough.  Those of us who have had long term N romances know that that will never happen.  The healing that is done by anyone damaged by an N has to be done by THEM.

This was me, too.  In the case of my xnh, it was his father--but the result was the same.  I protected and tried to rescue him for 22 years, but nothing ever changed. I was always the bad guy who didn't appreciate his father and understand that underneath the drunken behavior, he was truly a great guy and father.  Hardly!

It was just a repeat of my role in my FOO, where I tried to rescue my mother from my father, only to have her take his side and cut me from her life.  After he died, she wanted me to be close to her once again, but the damage was done and I could never truly forgive her for abandoning me.  Both of them are dead now and I do not miss either of them.  Sad, I know.

Brigid



 

[axa]

Brigid,

i feel the same about my dead parents.  Dont miss them at all......... there was so little to miss once I stopped allowing them abuse me.

The rest of your story is so familiar also.

xxx  axa

[GAP]

Chris,

Welcome, I find writing about this stuff really helps you make sense of it all.  I was never in my life a jealous person.  Although I lived with rage and abuse my entire marriage I thought the one thing about my husband was that he was honest and truthful.  He convinced me that even a little white lie was wrong.  He was always accusing me of lying which use to drive my crazy since I was honest to a fault.  I think they want to get caught and want us to dig into their lives.  My husband had been on a business trip.  He said he had gone along and got stuck out of town an additioinal night because his plane was canceled.  A couple days later he asked me to bring his clothes to the dry cleaner...(that was the one job he wouldn't let me do because he felt I messed it up)...he left all his travel documuments in his pocket....he had traveled with his secetary and spent an extra night with her.  It is amazing how someones bad behavior can turn you into an insecure, snooping, jealous person overnight.....their low life behavior drags you to places and makes you become a person that you don't want to be.  How nice for you she has left the country.  I've been divorced for over a year and feel so much better when my exN is out of town!

They truly believe their reality therefore they hold all truths. 

GAP

[axa]

Gap

Funny really, I knew xn was eccentric but the bottom line was that I KNEW he was honest and trustworthy................... imo truth to them is something to distill so that they retain a meagre portion of it and twist the rest to suit their tastes.

XN I believe is a pathological liar and nothing, just nothing, that comes out of his mouth is worthy of belief.  At least I am not listening to the twisted sick lies any more.  He did tell me in a moment of rage once that his life was a series of smoke and mirrors.  Guess he was truthful about that to give him credit.

axa

[DivineSunshine]

Well, speaking of the N women in MY life---It seems like most I have seen fit into the "actress/histrionic" catagory of Nism.  They get away with a lot more without people even realizing what is going on. 

Until the evilness of it all finally sinks in.  You always feel weird or wrong, but can't put your finger on it.

I found an amusing checklist at:http://albernstein.com/id28.htm

I will copy and paste a little--it may fit your x or maybe another one there fits better.  Anyway, sorry you got involved with one.  Some of us have N mothers who society scorns us for not having a relationship with them.  No matter how they act.  Maybe that's why we hear less about it.  Although I agree with others about men not having their voice to express their utter frustration and confusion with this disorder.  Lack of a safe place to do it and again, social pressure, I suppose.

A perfect description of my sister and Mother-in law below.....  Makes ya laugh or makes ya sick--either way it makes ya think.  Enjoy. 

                                           LIVING A SOAP OPERA:
                                  THE HISTRIONIC VAMPIRE CHECKLIST
                    True or false?  Score one point for each true answer.
1. THIS PERSON USUALLY STANDS OUT IN A CROWD BY VIRTUE OF LOOKS, DRESS, OR PERSONALITY.
2. THIS PERSON IS FRIENDLY, ENTHUSIASTIC, ENTERTAINING AND ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS.
3. THIS PERSON TREATS SUPERFICIAL ACQUAINTANCES AS IF THEY WERE CLOSE FRIENDS.
4. THIS PERSON MAY BECOME VISIBLY UPSET WHEN FORCED TO SHARE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION.
5. THIS PERSON FREQUENTLY CHANGES HIS OR HER STYLE OF DRESS AND OVERALL LOOK.
6. THIS PERSON LOVES TO TALK, GOSSIP, AND TELL STORIES.
7. THE STORIES USUALLY BECOME MORE EXAGGERATED AND DRAMATIC WITH EACH RETELLING.
8. THIS PERSON HAS A GOOD FASHION SENSE, BUT PERHAPS A BIT TOO MUCH CONCERN WITH HIS OR HER APPEARANCE.
9.  THIS PERSON CAN BECOME VERY UPSET OVER RELATIVELY SMALL SOCIAL SLIGHTS.
10.  THIS PERSON SELDOM ADMITS TO BEING ANGRY, EVEN WHEN HIS OR HER ANGER IS QUITE APPARENT TO OTHER PEOPLE. 
11.THIS PERSON HAS VERY LITTLE MEMORY FOR DAY TO DAY DETAILS.
12. THIS PERSON BELIEVES IN SUPERNATURAL ENTITIES, LIKE ANGELS, DEITIES, OR BENEVOLENT SPIRITS WHO REGULARLY INTERVENE IN EVERYDAY LIFE.
13. THIS PERSON HAS ONE OR MORE UNUSUAL AILMENT THAT COMES AND GOES ACCORDING TO NO DISCERNABLE PATTERN.
14. THIS PERSON HAS SOME PROBLEMS DOING REGULAR CHORES LIKE PAPERWORK, HOUSECLEANING, OR PAYING BILLS.
15. THIS PERSON HAS BEEN KNOWN TO GET SICK TO AVOID DOING SOMETHING UNPLEASANT.
16. THIS PERSON FERVENTLY FOLLOWS SEVERAL TELEVISION SHOWS OR SPORTS TEAMS.
17. THIS PERSON'S COMMUNICATION, THOUGH HIGHLY COLORED,  IS OFTEN INDIRECT AND VAGUE.
18. THIS PERSON REQUIRES MORE MAINTENANCE THAN A RARE ORCHID, BUT BELIEVES HE OR SHE IS THE EASIEST PERSON IN THE WORLD TO GET ALONG WITH.
19. THIS PERSON OFTEN SEEMS SEDUCTIVE, WHETHER HE OR SHE WOULD ADMIT TO IT OR NOT.
20. DESPITE ALL THE PROBLEMS, THIS PERSON IS ALWAYS IN DEMAND, AND MORE POPULAR THAN I COULD EVER HOPE TO BE.

Scoring: Five or more true answers qualifies the person as a Histrionic Emotional Vampire, though not necessarily for a diagnosis of Histrionic Personality.  If the person scores higher than ten, be careful that you don't inadvertently join the cast of his or her soap opera. 

[retread]

hi chris....

about why she might have stayed around so long with u...

i believe that negative entities of the other side can often
see a narcissistic personality as a kind of open door to increase evil in the world...
not that the narcissistic personality recognizes that such is happening
and might think of them as helpful spirits or not recognize how negative entities
are giving them power that of course serves well to test
the resolve of good people 
in confronting and handling evil...

when many are amazed at how narcissist can pull off certain things,
i think part of the explanation might be the negative entities
that see a channel in narcissistic people to work their evil...

[DivineSunshine]

Interesting thought......anything is possible!  Sometimes I really wonder, cause they don't make any human sense to me!!

So...where's chris??

Sunny D