Author Topic: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"  (Read 17956 times)

liberty

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2007, 10:58:01 AM »
One method I use is to ask people: "Who is the most toxic person you know at work or in a social setting? Could you imagine having to live with this person? Then I ask: "Does this person have a child?" Then I say: "Well if you (an adult) find this person to be so toxic, could you imagine being their child?"

Every murderer, every thief, every criminal or toxic person is either someone's parent, or child. So who are people trying to fool when they pretend that all parents are good and loving. Saying all parents are good and loving is just as foolish as saying that all people are good and loving. Because all parents fall under the subset of all people.

People who hold on to these beliefs are delusional and perhaps should instead be looking for pink spotted donkeys and striped unicorns. We are not the irrational ones. They are!

Lib


Stormchild

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2007, 11:03:33 AM »
Woooooo lib!

I LOVE the clarity of your vision.

Yes yes yes yes yes.

Every murderer, every thief, every criminal or toxic person is either someone's parent, or child.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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Bones

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2007, 12:05:18 PM »
How awful, Bones. That poor little girl. That is what happens when everyone turns a blind eye and platitudes and denial rule... it's always the innocent who pay the price... so sad.

And what made it worse for me was the TV program showed the last school picture of this little girl, where both of her eyes were clearly blackened from abuse, and those who had the power to report this and save her life let her fall through the cracks until she was murdered by her own parents!

Bones

Dazed1

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2007, 01:37:13 PM »
Stormy,

I don't mean to hijack your post, but since we're talking about Bad Moms, I thought this article on "Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers" would fit in.

I found this through a link on another board: http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/memberspages.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=378870&LastModified=4675607009435008034

It's very long and I'm exhausted from reading it and processing it. 

It's too large to post here, so read characteristics 7- 24 at http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

dazed


 
It's about secret things. The Destructive Narcissistic Parent creates a child that only exists to be an extension of her self. It's about body language. It's about disapproving glances. It's about vocal tone. It's very intimate. And it's very powerful. It's part of who the child is.

- Chris
 
Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers
 
1. Everything she does is deniable. There is always a facile excuse or an explanation. Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts. Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is best for you. She only wants to help you.
 
She rarely says right out that she thinks you’re inadequate. Instead, any time that you tell her you’ve done something good, she counters with something your sibling did that was better or she simply ignores you or she hears you out without saying anything, then in a short time does something cruel to you so you understand not to get above yourself. She will carefully separate cause (your joy in your accomplishment) from effect (refusing to let you borrow the car to go to the awards ceremony) by enough time that someone who didn’t live through her abuse would never believe the connection.
 
Many of her putdowns are simply by comparison. She’ll talk about how wonderful someone else is or what a wonderful job they did on something you’ve also done or how highly she thinks of them. The contrast is left up to you. She has let you know that you’re no good without saying a word. She’ll spoil your pleasure in something by simply congratulating you for it in an angry, envious voice that conveys how unhappy she is, again, completely deniably. It is impossible to confront someone over their tone of voice, their demeanor or they way they look at you, but once your narcissistic mother has you trained, she can promise terrible punishment without a word. As a result, you’re always afraid, always in the wrong, and can never exactly put your finger on why.
 
Because her abusiveness is part of a lifelong campaign of control and because she is careful to rationalize her abuse, it is extremely difficult to explain to other people what is so bad about her. She’s also careful about when and how she engages in her abuses. She’s very secretive, a characteristic of almost all abusers (“Don’t wash our dirty laundry in public!”) and will punish you for telling anyone else what she’s done. The times and locations of her worst abuses are carefully chosen so that no one who might intervene will hear or see her bad behavior, and she will seem like a completely different person in public. She’ll slam you to other people, but will always embed her devaluing nuggets of snide gossip in protestations of concern, love and understanding (“I feel so sorry for poor Cynthia. She always seems to have such a hard time, but I just don’t know what I can do for her!”) As a consequence the children of narcissists universally report that no one believes them (“I have to tell you that she always talks about YOU in the most caring way!). Unfortunately therapists, given the deniable actions of the narcissist and eager to defend a fellow parent, will often jump to the narcissist’s defense as well, reinforcing your sense of isolation and helplessness (“I’m sure she didn’t mean it like that!”)
 
2. She violates your boundaries. You feel like an extension of her. Your property is given away without your consent, sometimes in front of you. Your food is eaten off your plate or given to others off your plate. Your property may be repossessed and no reason given other than that it was never yours. Your time is committed without consulting you, and opinions purported to be yours are expressed for you. (She LOVES going to the fair! He would never want anything like that. She wouldn’t like kumquats.) You are discussed in your presence as though you are not there. She keeps tabs on your bodily functions and humiliates you by divulging the information she gleans, especially when it can be used to demonstrate her devotion and highlight her martyrdom to your needs (“Mike had that problem with frequent urination too, only his was much worse. I was so worried about him!”) You have never known what it is like to have privacy in the bathroom or in your bedroom, and she goes through your things regularly. She asks nosy questions, snoops into your email/letters/diary/conversations. She will want to dig into your feelings, particularly painful ones and is always looking for negative information on you which can be used against you. She does things against your expressed wishes frequently. All of this is done without seeming embarrassment or thought.
 
Any attempt at autonomy on your part is strongly resisted. Normal rites of passage (learning to shave, wearing makeup, dating) are grudgingly allowed only if you insist, and you’re punished for your insistence (“Since you’re old enough to date, I think you’re old enough to pay for your own clothes!”) If you demand age-appropriate clothing, grooming, control over your own life, or rights, you are difficult and she ridicules your “independence.”
 
3. She favoritizes. Narcissistic mothers commonly choose one (sometimes more) child to be the golden child and one (sometimes more) to be the scapegoat. The narcissist identifies with the golden child and provides privileges to him or her as long as the golden child does just as she wants. The golden child has to be cared for assiduously by everyone in the family. The scapegoat has no needs and instead gets to do the caring. The golden child can do nothing wrong. The scapegoat is always at fault. This creates divisions between the children, one of whom has a large investment in the mother being wise and wonderful, and the other(s) who hate her. That division will be fostered by the narcissist with lies and with blatantly unfair and favoritizing behavior. The golden child will defend the mother and indirectly perpetuate the abuse by finding reasons to blame the scapegoat for the mother’s actions. The golden child may also directly take on the narcissistic mother’s tasks by physically abusing the scapegoat so the narcissistic mother doesn’t have to do that herself.
 
4. She undermines.  Your accomplishments are acknowledged only to the extent that she can take credit for them. Any success or accomplishment for which she cannot take credit is ignored or diminished. Any time you are to be center stage and there is no opportunity for her to be the center of attention, she will try to prevent the occasion altogether, or she doesn’t come, or she leaves early, or she acts like it’s no big deal, or she steals the spotlight or she slips in little wounding comments about how much better someone else did or how what you did wasn’t as much as you could have done or as you think it is.  She undermines you by picking fights with you or being especially unpleasant just before you have to make a major effort. She acts put out if she has to do anything to support your opportunities or will outright refuse to do even small things in support of you. She will be nasty to you about things that are peripherally connected with your successes so that you find your joy in what you’ve done is tarnished, without her ever saying anything directly about it. No matter what your success, she has to take you down a peg about it.
 
5. She demeans, criticizes and denigrates. She lets you know in all sorts of little ways that she thinks less of you than she does of your siblings or of other people in general. If you complain about mistreatment by someone else, she will take that person’s side even if she doesn’t know them at all. She doesn’t care about those people or the justice of your complaints. She just wants to let you know that you’re never right.
 
She will deliver generalized barbs that are almost impossible to rebut (always in a loving, caring tone): “You were always difficult” “You can be very difficult to love” “You never seemed to be able to finish anything” “You were very hard to live with” “You’re always causing trouble” “No one could put up with the things you do.” She will deliver slams in a sidelong way - for example she’ll complain about how “no one” loves her, does anything for her, or cares about her, or she’ll complain that “everyone” is so selfish, when you’re the only person in the room. As always, this combines criticism with deniability.
 
She will slip little comments into conversation that she really enjoyed something she did with someone else - something she did with you too, but didn’t like as much. She’ll let you know that her relationship with some other person you both know is wonderful in a way your relationship with her isn’t - the carefully unspoken message being that you don’t matter much to her.
 
She minimizes, discounts or ignores your opinions and experiences. Your insights are met with condescension, denials and accusations (“I think you read too much!”) and she will brush off your information even on subjects on which you are an acknowledged expert. Whatever you say is met with smirks and amused sounding or exaggerated exclamations (“Uh hunh!” “You don’t say!” “Really!”). She’ll then make it clear that she didn’t listen to a word you said.
 
6. She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something she’s done, she’ll tell you that you have “a very vivid imagination” (this is a phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your experience of their abuse) that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or that she has no idea what you’re talking about. She will claim not to remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will she ever acknowledge any possibility that she might have forgotten. This is an extremely aggressive and exceptionally infuriating tactic called “gaslighting,” common to abusers of all kinds. Your perceptions of reality are continually undermined so that you end up without any confidence in your intuition, your memory or your powers of reasoning. This makes you a much better victim for the abuser.
 
Narcissists gaslight routinely. The narcissist will either insinuate or will tell you outright that you’re unstable, otherwise you wouldn’t believe such ridiculous things or be so uncooperative. You’re oversensitive. You’re imagining things. You’re hysterical. You’re completely unreasonable. You’re over-reacting, like you always do. She’ll talk to you when you’ve calmed down and aren’t so irrational. She may even characterize you as being neurotic or psychotic.
 
Once she’s constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she’ll tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn’t do anything. She has no idea why you’re so irrationally angry with her. You’ve hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she just doesn’t know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she wants to do is help you.
 
She has simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for your obvious antipathy towards her, implied that it’s something fundamentally wrong with you that makes you angry with her, and undermined your credibility with her listeners. She plays the role of the doting mother so perfectly that no one will believe you.

Leah

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2007, 02:44:27 PM »
Dazed

Thanks for posting "Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers" - painful but it will be beneficial once I can begin to digest it fully.

wow, being on here today has been truly remarkable.

Ever thankful with warm wishes to all

Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

retread

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2007, 04:30:31 PM »
an interesting book along lines of bad mother
that might be worth googlin
 The practice of psychosomatic medicine as illustrated in allergy
by baruch and miller...
it was copyrighted 1956
about dominant mothers of various types
who force the father out of the picture

Dazed1

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2007, 04:55:03 PM »
Liberty and Leah,

Re: the toxic person being our mother, I so agree.

While my mother was raging at me for no reason, I would think to myself "would I accept this crap from anyone else?  Hell, NO!!  So, why do I accept this just because it is my mother raging at me?"

During her rages (which left me in emotional turmoil and wasted so much of my psychological energy), I would also remind myself to not forget or minimize how badly she would make me feel when she raged at me.  I didn't want to forget those feelings later on when she became nice again.  I didn't want to minimize the emotional damage she did to me just because later on, she would be nice to me.

I guess I needed to remember and be my OWN witness.

dazed

Stormchild

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2007, 07:02:32 PM »
Hi dazed

been away for a few hours. Hijack? What hijack? That's an incredibly relevant and useful post and wasn't this just the perfect place for it!

thank you. Holy shlamoley, that post describes my mother to a T, especially the furtive vindictive nastiness she loved so well.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

Stormchild

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2007, 07:03:48 PM »
retread, thanks. I'll look for that book. The impact of this kind of toxicity on our immune systems is real.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

Dazed1

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2007, 10:00:10 PM »
Thanks Leah & Storm.
dazed

Stormchild

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2007, 10:56:16 AM »
Yes, my immune system was effected, caught every flu and cold virus going round, and, also had to have my thyroid tested and had to take thyroid medication.  I was blamed for being ill so much and folk would ask me why I was ill so much!!  So more guilt.  Folks can be so thoughtless in their speech sometimes.  Especially as I was rushed to hospital Christmas 2005 with a very high temperature and in a dreadful state with rashes all over my body.

((((((((((leah)))))))))) Honestly, this blame the victim stuff is so tiresome. I'm sorry you had to deal with that, on top of everything else.

Quote
No contact with Nmother since spring 2006, when she trashed the bouquet of flowers I sent her for a gift.

Now I am so very happy to report that no virus or cold infections so far this winter!  Best Christmas 2006 gift!

Leah

Ouch, Leah. How about flowers for yourself, instead, this year? :-) Send them to someone who truly deserves and will truly appreciate them.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

Gaining Strength

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2007, 11:38:29 AM »
Wow Dazed - that is so painful  can't finish it in one sitting.  Much of it applies to both of my parents but what really shook me up is the part about taking over your life.  I suddenly realized that I am caught in that experience right now.  My mother wants us to buy a house together.  Part of that would be helpful to me and that is how I have gotten caught up in it.  I need to continue to build up my own power.  It is only in powerlessness that an N can have any power.

retread

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2007, 05:37:39 PM »
by the by
those interesten in my earlier post
about maternal rejection and psychomatic medicine and allergies,
here is a link to an online article that covers aspect of the book...
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/reprint/10/5/275.pdf

in the above article mention is made how some mothers
openly get into how they never wanted child
but some mothers will claim despite how
they showered the child with attention
that the child did not appreciate such
and thus it was the child's fault
as the mother did all she could in her mind ....
such methinks was more my mom....

Dazed1

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2007, 07:50:00 PM »
Hi GS,

Thank you for validating my experinced and being a witness.  I'm sorry you experienced similar stuff.

About the house, please really, really think this out:

Can you handle doing this?  Would buying a house togther give your mom power?  Probably would.  Do you think that by imposing strong boundaries with her, her power over you could be minimized?  Can you maintain your sanity and your beautiful progress if you buy the house with her?

Can you buy one on your own?  Are banks in your state required to give mortgages to people who have trouble qualifying on their own?  Please check your state law and see if there are mortgage loan programs that could benefit you.  Go to your local bank and talk to the loan officer.

You're saying your mom could help you financially, but please think carefully and truthfully about what the cost and price of her help is to you.

love,
dazed




Bones

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Re: The "Bad Mommy Taboo"
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2007, 08:50:56 PM »
Hi GS,

Thank you for validating my experinced and being a witness.  I'm sorry you experienced similar stuff.

About the house, please really, really think this out:

Can you handle doing this?  Would buying a house togther give your mom power?  Probably would.  Do you think that by imposing strong boundaries with her, her power over you could be minimized?  Can you maintain your sanity and your beautiful progress if you buy the house with her?

Can you buy one on your own?  Are banks in your state required to give mortgages to people who have trouble qualifying on their own?  Please check your state law and see if there are mortgage loan programs that could benefit you.  Go to your local bank and talk to the loan officer.

You're saying your mom could help you financially, but please think carefully and truthfully about what the cost and price of her help is to you.

love,
dazed



GS,

With an N, there's usually strings attached to any "help" that they offer so I would proceed with EXTREME caution and check things out before taking that final leap!

Bones