How I feel on a bad day.

[Nic]

I'm feeling better today, but I had a horrible day Monday.
I woke up feeling terribly oppressed, almost uncontrollably so.  My N Parents ,who I am quarrelling with at present, ( well in reality eversince I can remember, more accurately to this extent since about 1.5 years) returned from a few days away.
What do you mean Nic? Yes forum participators My wife and I live next door to my parents.  * expecting to receive a shoe each from all of you* OUCH!  They left, without telling us for the second time this year.  Understand, I do not care where they go or who they visit. However, my passive N father is 80 years old and my fully active N mother is 76, and without needing to know their comings and goings, my wife and I believe that a note (AT LEAST!) in the post box would be a responsible thing for them to do when they go.  BUT NOOO!
The last time they did this, they left in a horrible storm and it was very cold outside for several days.  When they returned, their hot water heater had exploded and there was water everywhere..( I'm still given to laughing hysterically about that one!)   Because they had begun telling everyone that my wife and I were no longer being nice to them, they had an alarm system installed in their addition to the house making it impossible for us ( they did not give us the combo of course) to check on things while they were away.
This time they just left.  A word about them being away from me physically.  I don't know if any of you have ever experienced this, here goes.  For some reason, I can sense it when my parents are within 100kms radius of me.  Don't laugh, it's true!  Even as a child and whether or not I was aniticipating their return, I could feel it when they were about to come around.  I get uncomfortable, i begin to feel "me" receeding,  I begin to change.  I feel uneasy, I begin to feel as if I were being silenced ( losing my voice- as in voicelessness) .  That's how it felt when I was a child particularly.  Now as an adult- I'm forty- I still feel when they're on the way, getting closer, and inevitably there they are.  I don't know if it's catching but my wife seems to be developing the ability as well.  She describes it as " them and all their demons coming back".
Whenever they leave our country home, the place livens up.  It's like even the land can't stand their presence!  Everything is brighter, more lovely, lighter in atmosphere.  My wife and I are both more relaxed, and frankly enjoy EVERYTHING more.
My parents returned on sunday night.  I woke up Monday morning knowing they were there, eventhough I had worked until midnight sunday.
I woke up Monday morning feeling horrible.  As if ,again ,they had taken my life energy away.  I felt dirty (don't know why) I felt shame ( don't know why) I felt like I shouldn't be in my own house ( don't know why) I felt awful! As I lay in bed I thought, " I'm stuck with these two until they die! I'm trapped, how could I have allowed myself, ESPECIALLY after a life-time of struggling with them,to have purchased a property with them?"
How could I have permitted myself to promise I would take care of them in their old age?  How and why did you do this Nic? Because you're nice and generous and such a joy to be around?
Almost immediately after these thoughts plus a few others such as, " How could you have done this to your own wife?!", I had a suicidal thought.  It sprang out at me from the pit of my being.  I pictured myself caught, trapped, couldn't breathe.  I felt like a hostage. I know that psychologically, hostages feel trapped and once released often suffer from depression and lack of motivation.  But this was new.  I felt embarrassed that I wasn't just thinking about suicide but actually feeling about suicide.  I thought Oh my God, i'm scared just now!  And then the feeling went away.  I pushed the thought right out of my mind, in a flash I could see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I wondered, could it come back?
You see, after having allowed myself to buy a property with my parents, I thought I had covered all bases.  I have been to therapy, ( mother is a pill popping alcoholic-once in therapy-off the pills but can't give up the alcohol) I have established boundaries.  I thought they could build a small granny hut type addition to the house my wife and I live in, with a neutral zone in the middle so nobody would step on anybody's toes.
The way it turned out is, they built a huge addition to our house and have taken over the neutral zone!!! PLUS, as expressed in the old message board, they are taking my wife and I to court because they no longer wish to live there ( we're not being nice) and they want to force a sale.  Like classic Ns they are no longer worshipped enough and can't take responsibility for anything.  My wife is an outsider who has changed me horribly from who I was " before I married that woman"!  Get the picture?
So, Monday I felt I couldn't handle it anymore.  I feel horrible that i'm in this situation in the first place.  Can absolutely not believe this is happening to me.  On monday I was exhausted at fighting with them and having them twist everything to their advantage.  Past angry at them for deciding they weren't playing anymore 'cos I'm not.
I hope this is clear enough for you all.
Several issues are present here.  Narcisim, is the central one.  Enmeshed relationship with my N parents another, anger,frustration, having to actually get and pay for a lawyer to fight my own parents..It's all so incredible, imagine my disappointment when I pinch myself!
Imagine the embarrassment of having to tell people that my parents are taking me to court.  The thought actually made one of my colleagues gag for heaven's sake!
This has been ongoing for two years now.  Why don't you move Nic?  Because I put all my ressources into this property, and extra money is going toward paying the lawyers.
My wife says that my N parents cannot accept that I have as good a life or better one than theirs.  They naturally hate my wife, mainly because she was brought up in a "normal" family.  Plus she's a Scot, and you don't pull the wool over a scot's eyes easily i'll tell ya!  My wife is my greatest support, nothing I say or do makes her think I'm weird.  She is a normal person, not perfect just normal.  She never EVER berates me, she never EVER says anything unkind to me.  Quite the catch for a survivor of N parents, quite the prize for a voiceless person I think!.  Kind of like getting the cure before you know you've got the illness. A miracle.
But the shame of having these horrible days, like this monday.  The shame of her seeing how I was raised.  They tried to get her to play their game and she never has in almost ten years now.  Even when she says she'd like to shoot them and throw them in the river ( yes we live on a river ) I look at her and almost say: " don't be so mean!"
It's horrible and it makes me feel even more ashamed.  Like Mr. Ronsenblum protecting Adolf Hitler.  Like the victim wanting to spare the perpetrator.

And so I must live with this situation until it has passed.  I've mentionned before that I no longer have a relationship with my parents.  We don't casually say hello anymore.  How could we?  My father AND mother still wave to me when I'm alone in the hope that i'll return to " how things used to be" and they turn their backs on me when I'm with my wife.  Not to mention how they turn their backs on her and hate here for spoiling their plans for themselves...It's so sick.  I'm in the process of getting out.  I wish I could snap my fingers  and be a million miles away sometimes..
Luckily I have faith.  I realize I must go through the fire holding God's hand.  But this past monday brought me very close to the edge.  I was upset at myself for thinking about suicide.  I said to myself, " come on Nic, you've got enough problems..don't make things worse by spooking yourself on top of it!"

Also, please, don't be alarmed, I'm not thinking about throwing myself in the river with cement overshoes.  I WOULD NOT manipulate,or attention seek by bringing up suicide.  But I wanted/needed to express to you just how I feel when I have a bad day related to my parents and my horrible history and situation with them.  I need to have your comments and or need of clarification.  Please tell me if you've felt this way yourselves.
I've been walking around thinking that although we all have our parental horror stories mine have got to be the worst!  Honestly I have.

I'm rather very tired of the roller-coaster ride i've been on for nearly two years.  I am going to remove myself from my parents ASAP.  I've said it before here, it's easier to get away from a religious sect ( having done just that at one point! ) than getting away from my parents.

AND, i will return , i can't wait to return with positive,whitty, friendly, loving posts. Soon I hope.
Nic.

[Neko]

*nodding head in agreement*

I have suicidal feelings when around my parents too. Not looking for pity, support, whatever either - I know deep in my heart and being that I love life and always will, it's just that being around my parents fills me with such hopelessness, emptiness, that death seems to "naturally" perk its head up. Maybe because being dead would get about as much attention from them as being alive, but without the pain? The black feelings only come when around them, which I recognized a long time ago, thank goodness. It can be worrying when you know that you really love life!

The first time my husband met my parents, he also met a "me" he'd never seen before: a panicked, hyper-sensitive and defensive me. I'd told him that my parents were abusive, and he understood that, but was genuinely surprised at their rottenness. Likewise he was surprised to see quiet, gentle me (as he puts it) turn into super-strong defense woman, and then fall into pieces when my parents weren't around because the defense had sapped all my energy. His outside viewpoint has been key in my healing. His words from that first meeting with them: "you have the right to not be treated like that, and if it means not seeing them, so be it. I was shocked, worried to see you like that - you felt awful, it was so obvious. How can your parents not see how terrible you feel??" were like saving grace. It was then that I started looking for websites like this one, to see if others had similar experiences and what they'd done to heal.

(I never thought I'd find SUCH similar experiences! )

Currently, I'm on the opposite side of the planet from my parents. With the phone, sometimes that's not far enough, but your post reminded me of how wonderful it really is. The zing has been removed from their attacks and I honestly have a hard time remembering the constant stress and depression that being around them causes. Take hope from that: just like you described, there is happiness and light outside of NPD parents The hard part is getting out, but in my opinion, the separation attacks and pain are worth the ensuing normalcy. My parents have been surprisingly willing to heed my boundaries, but only when access is controlled. As soon as they have unlimited access - like when they do their "oh by the way, we forgot to mention, we bought plane tickets four months ago and will arrive in three days" thing - they constantly try to get a foot in the old "control" door.

[rosencrantz]

Nic - I'm really sorry for how you are feeling right now.  But this is what close contact with them DOES TO YOU.  All the literature says 'Get out and stay out'.

I've ended up with Power of Attorney for my 80 year old mother.  I was amazed that she let that one through but now she does everything to thwart my attempts to handle things.  She duplicates everything I do.  She makes the phone calls and fills in duplicate forms - so we're both doing the same things!!  She's actually competing with me...

NOW, of course, I understand all the whys and wherefores.  I didn't understand soon enough.  

I, too, was very good on boundaries when we started to have contact again (ie when my father was ill in hospital, and after he died, too).  I was very, very nice to her but very clear on what I could and wouldn't tolerate.

But in just a few short weeks, she gradually wore me down.  She reeled me in like a fish!!!  My husband kept looking at me in a worried way and saying to me 'Don't let your mother destroy you' - and I'd say "How can I be indifferent to someone so recently bereaved?" yet knowing that she'd got me over a barrel and was taking advantage of it (unconsciously)!!!

I advise you not to fight them.  If you fight them, you're giving them that ol' supply which they love. They love the drama.   Let 'em do what they want.  Loosen your grip.  Don't let them frighten you or bully you financially or otherwise.  Be indifferent to their lawsuit.  Call their bluff.  Otherwise they'll use it to manipulate you for years.  I decided to let go of a lot of money in order to retain my sanity.  Think 'What's perfect in this', have faith in your own healing and go with the flow...

(The trouble is it's all rather exciting and I think we get drawn in because it's exciting in some way - when it stops being exciting, we get rather depressed!!)

R

[rosencrantz]

Neko -Thanks for your post - by getting my husband to read it, I've just been able to reassure him that he's just the regular husband of a regular daughter of a regular Nmother!!  
 
I asked him to write down the changes he saw in me so I could try to focus on what was really happening.  He's not seen this person before and I regret he had to discover 'her'.  Just in case it helps anybody else, here goes...
 
Obsessed, Dependent, Emotionally masochistic, Intimidated, Indecisive, Insecure, Distraught, Preoccupied, Unfocussed, Self-despising, Guilt-ridden, Depersonalised, Weak, Vulnerable, Reclusive, Unstable, Hysterial (occasionally).  You can add suicidal to that, Nic.
 
Fun, eh?!  That's certainly not the person he met and married 15 years ago. And I feel ashamed to 'reveal' this new person.
 
I've had several weeks of 'energy' healing and it's now seven and a half (don't forget the half!!) weeks since I've had a telephone conversation with her.  And I feel normal again.  Well, I feel I can 'act normal in the world' except I feel I'm totally self-absorbed in doing things like reading and writing in order to understand and work through it all.

(Sharp intake of breath - perhaps I'm an N after all!!!   Yeah, well - some of the time)

 R

[rosencrantz]

Nic - My mother enters my 'psychic' space in a similar way.  And when I'm with her, she uses me as a dustbin for all her rubbish so I become the 'her' she's rejecting.  That's what some of that rubbish in that list (above) is about.  Try Children of the Self-Absorbed which has some information about this and some suggestions for how to protect yourself psychologically)

Except I think self-protection is almost impossible because (I think) somehow, being the child of an Nmother seems to make us hyper-sensitive to 'atmosphere' and we become almost 'psychic'.  We've learnt to do that to protect ourselves.
 
Some while ago, I started to get books about 'psychic protection' because, in general, I seem to be too 'open' to other people's energy or feelings or something!!  
 
Here's an example that's pretty obvious which happened a couple of years ago : I was driving along and suddenly felt totally overwhelmed by grief.  Whoosh!  Tears. I suddenly realised there I was about to drive through a patch of road where people on the pavement on both sides were dressed in black.  They had just come out of the local cemetery!!  
 
I'm also aware that the more I think about her and these problems, the easier it is for her to invade my space.
 
Well, I don't know.  Nic - all I'm saying here is that I believe you, it's happening - they are invading your space and your psyche - your psychic space.  I believe that.  That's my experience.

Perhaps there are better words for it that I haven't discovered yet.  I don't expect to be believed. My own experience, truth, reality, makes me voiceless and vulnerable because it's not accepted or acceptable as a likely truth by those who hold 'power' in this situation (medical profession, psychiatric profession, legal profession, social services).  

R

[rosencrantz]

Rob - According to some writers, we are all surrounded by an energy field which some say is linked to our spiritual life.  It's what makes Kineseology work and energy healing possible. (Power and Force by psychiatrist David Hawkins is a good introduction - http://www.veritaspub.com/).

Yes, I think we experience them as evil - and I have wondered if all the literature on evil and demons and possession actually comes originally as a primitive understanding of this kind of personality disorder...

But I honestly don't believe that they are less human than any of the rest of us.  Just with more pain and a much lower pain threshold.  Is a scorpion evil for protecting itself - or a wasp or a bear???  I know they don't have the same kind of consciousness but maybe they haven't either!!!

I honestly believe these N people are hurting just as much as we are.  But they have no ability to come out of their own personal hell.  We can choose to leave - they can't!!

The pit of shame is mega huge for me and when I come close to it, it prevents me seeing the world, being in the world, relating to the world.  I believe that their pit of shame is set off at every moment of every day in every experience that brings them in connection with the outside world.

And they flail around to control the world so that it won't gobble them up and hurl them into the pit of shame, never to be seen again. And shame is very close to rage (I think).

That's why your mother has said those things - of course the family 'went to hell' when your wife came into it : it became hell for your mother because your wife TELLS THE TRUTH - and gets in the way of you being your mother's garbage can!! (It's a compliment LOL)

Rob, don't let them tie you up in knots!  Indifference has to be our mantra.  Indifference and maybe a little arrogant contempt - not fear or loathing (that keeps alive the ties that bind you!).  Like my mother used to say about spiders, they are much more frightened of you than you are of them!!!

Your mother doesn't do the yelling to embarrass you - she does it to make herself look better than you.  Try doing this instead! : See, I bet you don't feel embarrassed any more!!!

I had to talk to a variety of people today that my mother had got entangled in her latest drama (pensions, taxes, that kind of thing).  There was no need for any of it - but I got things like - "She's not happy with you".   It was fascinating to watch it all - I have no idea how I managed not end up in a tangled guilt-ridden mass feeding everyone else's need to dump my mother's 'garbage' on me (It's all of you being there, that's what it is!!!).  I was more calm than I've ever been, smoothed things over, didn't panic or put blocks in the way - and everyone became totally helpful sweethearts.

What I SAID was "Oh, that's nothing new" "She was probably in a tizz again" "Don't worry about it - it happens"!!!  No guilt, no shame.  There's probably another rake lying in the grass for me round the corner but for the moment I'm having a good day.

Not that this means I am ready to give her a chance to tangle ME up again.  I'm keeping 'schtum'.

Thanks for letting me share and speak (and speak and speak!) and find a voice through writing.

[Nic]

Hi all!
Thank you so much for your comments.  I feel so strange *laughing* for what i'm about to say.  It's comforting to know I'm surrounded by people whose parents were as crazy as mine!*hahahahahahahaha!* *really laughing* I've never said that to any body of people before! *laughing hysterically*.  If we were having a soiree at a grand hotel, on arrival we'd ask for the Mad hatters tea party suite please!*hahahahahahahaha*
Oi! I needed that.  And you know, I've always managed to laugh through all this crap!  Lord, may I never lose my sense of humour! Thanks for thatparticular defense mechanism! Denial is not a river in Egypt! hmmm.
Rosencrantz, absolutely! You are absolutely correct. That iswhat being around my parents does to me.  The child in me is afraid..no no..wait a minute..I am afraid ( that's better) to risk it completely.  I'm afraid to "call their bluff", not completely though but partially. Yes I have alot of money to lose as well, but I much prefer peace of mind.  Thanks for sharing that with me...money...may I enjoy it one day.  But i'm getting better at being indifferent to them.  My wife is and has always been totally indifferent to them.  Sure she minds the inconvenience of having to pay for lawyers and going to court but she absolutely doesn't give a you know what about them.  I admire her for that! Of course they absolutely hate her for that!  I will endeavour to be indifferent knowing that it drives Ns totally batso!
Rob, I tell ya we could be brothers.  Until my parents came out, that is until they openly hated my wife, both her and I had to listen to them criticize my brother and his wife.  Years actually..How the boy was constantly talking about his genitals, how my sis in law dressed her young daughter like a slut, how weird the boy and the girl's relationship was..always insinuating incest, and things of a sexual nature..  I feel for your wife and you..I told my wife last week I would perfectly understand if she left me and never returned after all my parents have put her through since about two years.  Not a manipulation on my part but a statement of fact.  I couldn't blame you I said..she more or less invited me to leave with her..that said it all! And I will..
I had a thought this week Neko, today actually while mowing the lawn ( four bloody hours in the humid hot sun! whew!) There I was sitting on the mower and this thought came to me.  The more you criticize others, the more it reveals about you...I'm still pondering what that means..more on that later.. So good to know you've had these thoughts too, so refreshing to hear that you are a safe distance away from your parents.  I'm a bit jealous they've agreed to your boundaries..the minute I say Boundaries to my parents they answer: "where do we cross?" and they end up again right where they're not supposed to be.
Rosencrantz, I,like Rob pay no attention to the occult.  I do believe it's a no no..God doesn't like that.  So I can't relate to literature on evil spirits and "energies".  Don't take it as a put-down please, I understand what you mean and what you're  saying, however, demons and demonic forces I can relate to.  No doubt these are operating in my parents.  And yes, I do believe my parents and people like them are very insecure and unhappy.  Caught in a prison-behind emotional bars if you will. Far unhappier than I've ever been or ever will be.  I've tried for what seems to be a lifetime to get them to see the other side..to no avail, therefore although I pray for them constantly I must leave them to God as an oblate father said to me a few days ago, and let Him do the work.  Major restoration I say!
Kind regards,
Nic

[rosencrantz]

Wow - Not quite sure what I said, but I need to share that I don't believe in evil spirits either!!  And I wouldn't touch the occult with a bargepole.  I wouldn't be able to relate to the word demonic because it sounds the same kind of thing to me.

Using imagery for healing is something I learned about some 20 years ago when I was involved in the Human Potential movement - co-counselling, six category intervention analysis - things like that.  As for the rest, I guess I'm talking about the field of alternative and complementary medecine.  I'd include things like reflexology, aromatherapy, homeopathy, flower essences and bio-energetics.

Think about all our self-talk : it's really difficult to find the truth - but the body never lies.  Holistic healing involves mind AND body.  Kinesiology is based on these energies and is used, for example, to test for allergies.  Much more effective than patch tests or dietary exclusion especially for young children.  If it wasn't presented in such a 'low key' way, I'd say it was cutting edge and very exciting.  

I suppose it's a bit like the effects of being brought up by a narcissist - no-one believes you unless they've experienced it for themselves!!  LOL  But David Hawkins' book shows just how important to our well-being it is to practice acceptance and forgiveness - In a way, it's the science behind the scriptures...

The result is that my life has stopped being 'compartmentalised', and everything is gradually getting 'joined up'.  Whole!

However, I ended up feeling rather depressed last night - I realised I'd spent the day doing my 'eager puppy' routine.  'Let me help, I can help'.  Bounce, leap, lick, pant.  Pat me on the head.  Sigh.  Well, at least I know that eager puppy IS 'me' and not my mother invading me again.

BTW Nic - if it helps, the psychoanalytic literature doesn't call it 'invading someone's psychic space', it's called 'splitting' and 'projective identification'.  But they both mean the same thing : We are a dustbin (one writer uses the word 'toilet'!) for all the things about themselves that they don't like - and it makes us sick. People who don't get hooked up into their dramas just get bored with it all (like your wife).  

That reminds me of the 'excitement'/depression factor.  I think we're addicted to them!!!!!

Great to experience all that laughter, Nic!!!  

Toodlepip
R