for those whose story is too horrible to hear

[mudpuppy]

Hi seastorm,

Threads sometimes go in directions we don't intend.

Anyway let me tell you a little story. My wife was married twice before. Her first husband, her high school sweetheart, developed mental problems and got hooked on drugs. He became violent. She tried to stay with him but the last time he put her in the hospital for a week with broken ribs. She was forced to divorce him.
Her second husband wasn't violent. He was a con man/probable N who after a couple of years of marriage abandoned her and his teenage daughter for some floozy.
She always tells me that the pain of being tossed out like a piece of trash by her second husband was far more painful than the physical abuse of her first.
They manipulate and coerce and bully people into thinking there is something wrong with their victims. They even make us think there is something wrong with ourselves. When its still fresh, part of us wants to blame ourselves for what is entirely someone else's doing.

Somebody else will have to enlighten you on the desire to still love the guy as I have never been involved romantically with an N.
I do believe however that you are not close to being destroyed. I believe the pain of betrayal makes you feel that you are, right now. But time and distance will let you look back and see that you are stronger than you think.

mud

[Debkor]

Sea

CB is right.  Very well said CB.


You want to call him and beg him to reassure you because he has been your drug.  You are calling it love, but it really isnt.  It's really your addiction.

He was going to destroy you, Sea.  He still will destroy you if you give him the chance.  That's what he does. 

So very true.
Thinking back still gives me shivers.

Deb

[moonlight52]

Sea,

There will be a time you will have passed  thru the gaslighting and look back and it will be OK.
When you are in the middle of it it is two steps forward and one back .

Feeling confused and not understanding that you can trust your own judgments all normal reactions after being manipulated by an abuser.
They will lie with there last breath and enjoy your struggle.Do not give your power away.

Much love to you sea
Hold on and it will pass.
Deliberate cruelty is not acceptable

Moon

[Hopalong]

Hear, hear, CB...amazing post. Dittos Deb and Moon...

Sea, I am waving my arms madly in front of you telling you I have the book that will help you NOW,
is written for what you're going through RIGHT NOW...

Truly. Escape from Intimacy by Anne Wilson Schaf.

I think it would help you.

Deliberate cruelty is not an option -- yes ma'am, Moon!

That's from him to you. Deliberate cruelty from your sick self to your inner whole self isn't okay either.
That would be you exposing and re-exposing yourself to his sickness, and exacerbating your own.

Keep breathing, keep posting, and understand that despair feels deadly, but it will move you through.

Try to be sweet to yourself tonight, Sea, genuinely kind.
Love yourself, really focus on sending compassion like a warm searchlight into your own chest.
Visualize it.

When I have been heartbroken like that, I have held myself, wrapped my arms around, and said in the most loving voice,
"It's okay, honey. It's really okay." I would repeat it as long as it took.

love to you,
Hops

[seastorm]

IF ANOTHER N TRIED TO GET MONEY FROM ME AND MAKE ME WORK HARD, I WOULD SAY NO, NO, NO.

IF I HAD ANOTHER N BOSS I WOULD NOT STICK IT OUT, I WOULD LEAVE FAST. THE PRICE IS TOO HIGH ON HEALTH AND WELL BEING.

IF SOMEONE WAS LEACHING OFF ME LONG TERM I WOULD HOPEFULLY CUT 'EM LOSE. My exN now blames me for the time he didn't work and said that I enabled him.

Sea storm

[seastorm]

Thank you for the  kind words and the insights. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is helping me get through this.
There is a blueprint for rebuilding a personality that has been torn apart here. The blueprint is for a fortress that is light and beautiful and strong. I hear that it needs a good foundation and I cant keep building on sand. There is Family of Origin work to be done.

I will get that book HOPS.

I want to reply to all of you and I will. I am so tired though. You have all taken me to a better place.  I love you guys.

Sea storm

[axa]

Seastorm,

i have been feeling so bad the past few days, lots of pain and terror.  Went online and read this thread.  While your story is different to mine in some ways.  The constant giving, hoping, appeasing, which was met with coldness and cruelty is very familiar.  You sound as if you were a very independant, together woman when he met you and now that he is gone you have been left in a pile in the middle of the floor.  Familiar to me also.  How does this happen.

Yes, the gaslighting but there is something in us that gets pressed around being the GIVER, the good person, the understanding one.  The boiling frog is so smart.  It happens so slowly.  I had a flash back the other day to the guy I met and said out loud where did he go and when did he leave?  It was all so slow and slippery until the real N emerged then it was complete war.

I guess in a nutshell your story is like so many others here.  He lied, cheated, took everything he could from you, tried to break you and took great pleasure in it.  You gave and gave and gave.  The more you gave the less you got.  He projected his madness onto you and walked away feeling like he was the victim trying to deal with the crazy woman.

So much of it is addiction Sea.  I know this.  I am so grateful to CB because this morning my addiction kicked in and I was feeling quite desperate.  Reading this post has pushed me back to a place where I want to be healthy again and not stuck in the madness.

You are right building on sand does not work.  I used to say to XN that being in a relationship with him was like trying to build a house on shifting sand.  So sad for your pain Sea really feel it myself today so I can empathise.

Sending you lots of love and hugs.............. and do what hops said about holding yourself it does help.


axa

[pennyplant]

The addiction thing holds true for me.  And Ns can sense whatever it is you are addicted to.  And they take the easy way in.  I think most of the time the way in that they take is related to sexuality.  That is the drug of choice often enough.  I have read several stories here of married ones whose N will flirt with them to the point of bringing out desire and them leave them cold and alone.  They are the ultimate tease.  They know how to trigger that sexual chemistry and tension.  And those are real chemicals coursing through you.  And I believe that is one of the simpler ways they do it.

I watched a co-worker of mine over a period of two years and that was how she operated.  She was able to find a way to "arouse" nearly everyone in the building at one time or another.  Males as well as females.  It was subtle sometimes.  Occasionally people caught on.  Then she stopped hanging out with them.  The way I caught on was I noticed that she made a point of complimenting me on a particular pairs of jeans I own.  She said things about how they looked on me that I would have expected a guy to comment on.  It got to where I felt funny wearing them because she invariably made the same comment every single time about my body.  And it did make me feel, hmmm, bashful maybe is the word.  It struck something in me.  And it also reminded me of something I have done and still occasionally do.  If I'm feeling vulnerable I will purposely wear something clingy.  I call it wearing my "power shirt".  And it works nearly every time.  It gets attention when I do this.  Not always good attention, though.

Do you see what I'm getting at?  Sexuality is tied to power.  Ns are into power and they are primal enough that they would know to use the easiest power tool there is--sexuality.  Which, when it is used on others, draws out a chemical reaction.  And one can get addicted to that.  Once the addiction sets in, you're really, truly going to struggle to break it.  Meanwhile, they can play with your head all they want and that makes it harder to break it.

This may sound off the wall, but that is how I explain to myself how I got sucked in.  Yes, the lack of boundaries made me very suspectible.  The kind of childhood training I received made me susceptible.  But the not so secret ingredient most often is sexuality.

Pennyplant

[axa]

Penny,

Interesting post.  Our initial sexual relationship was about XN having intercourse and he getting his pleasure.  There was nothinng shared from his perspective.  I tried to talk to him, bought books, blah blah blah but he had absolutly no interest whatsoever in having a loving shared sexual relationship.  Needless to say I found this frustrating.  Somethimes when we were in bed he would behave as if he was going to initiate some foreplay but as soon as I got hooked he would "fall asleep".  I learned to not respond to his hand on my thigh because I knew that as soon as I engaged in any way he would stop.  It did not take long for our sex life to end.  He would joke that he was an estite (sic) dont know how to spell it!  I was aware from early on that there was a sense of "nobody there" when we did have sex.  I often wondered if he was gay which he denied.  His main interest sexually, if he was not looking for supply, was porn and mastrubation.

As time went on he would tease, taunt, lead me on, cuddle, always hold me when there were others around but would almost never follow through.  I asked him how he would feel if I had sex with someone else (had no intention of doing so) and he said what would that make us then, what about our relationship.    He told me he had an aversion to me because I had undermined him so much sexually and he could never recover from that.  he told me his xwife did not expect him to please her and could not see why I wanted.  Oh God just writing this bull makes me ill.  Of course it was all about power, the cat playing with the mouse, what sickos they are.

I think Sam V is very good around this stuff.  I do believe they are terrified of intimacy and so sex is just another tool in the armoury

In the beginning he told me one morning in bed that it was just like being a child and being in bed with his mother. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  I MUST HAVE BEEN ON DRUGS OR SOMETHING

Axa

[Gaining Strength]

Seastorm - I don't think you have finished grieving.  This loss is no different from loss due to death.  You have not come to terms with the death of your relationship much less the unbearable betrayals.  And you must come to terms with these excrutiaing losses before you can begin to see what changes you need to make in yourself.

Look for some groups to join in your community where there are other people who are dealing with the loss of a relationship.  Often churches will have a "re-singled" group.  These can be very healing groups of people where you can find support and understanding for what you are going through. 

When you have gotten some healing from this terrible loss and betrayal then you will be ready to address what part of you was drawn to such an unfeeling human.  Set a goal - I will get over this man.  Make it more positive, "I will heal and become a person drawn to a kind, adoring, caring man."  Try something like, "I am too valuable to want to be with this N."  Change the words until it feels right.  Maybe, "I still hurt but I know that I am too valuable to for a man like Nh." or "I deserve much better than the treatment from Nh and I will grow strong inspite of him."

Set a goal and believe it.  Write it down and look at it every morning, several times during the day, and at night before you go to sleep.  When you start to sink, repeat your goal to yourself over and over until the sting of your grief is softened.  Having a goal and having a battle plan for when the dark feelings come over you can be a lifesaver and can carry you through to better times.  These have pulled me through in a way that I am daily amazed by.

My heart is with you - your friend - Gaining Strength

[seastorm]

Gaining strength and all,
Thank you for your help.
One thing that is playing in my head and I am saying it over and over is, " I will get over him". I could not even conceive of this even a week ago. So I say it to make it so.

I find myself reaching out now. In a store I talked to a woman about her paintings and she told me the story of her cancelled wedding.  Then I went for coffe, a latte, and the man made a beautiful tulip on it. I told him how lovely it was and then sat down and started to talk to a fellow reading a magazine about boats. He ended up telling me about a year he spent as a llighthouse tender.  So I am opening up a lilttle. This is a big change. They did not know I was broken hearted and the normalcy of the talking was healing.
I have been getting ideas too. I thought of subdividing my property so I could pay it off and live in a smaller portion of it.  I am not making leaps and bounds but at least I am not completely paralyed.
I need to get on with the divorce but every time I do I just spin out of control with grief. I will try again next week.

Love to all of you,

Sea storm

[Leah]

In the beginning he told me one morning in bed that it was just like being a child and being in bed with his mother.

For about the last year or so, I have had a niggling thought in the back of my mind, that to my now xNh, he regarded me more like a mother.

Leah

[Leah]

Gaining strength and all,
Thank you for your help.
One thing that is playing in my head and I am saying it over and over is, " I will get over him". I could not even conceive of this even a week ago. So I say it to make it so.

I find myself reaching out now. In a store I talked to a woman about her paintings and she told me the story of her cancelled wedding.  Then I went for coffe, a latte, and the man made a beautiful tulip on it. I told him how lovely it was and then sat down and started to talk to a fellow reading a magazine about boats. He ended up telling me about a year he spent as a llighthouse tender.  So I am opening up a lilttle. This is a big change. They did not know I was broken hearted and the normalcy of the talking was healing.
I have been getting ideas too. I thought of subdividing my property so I could pay it off and live in a smaller portion of it.  I am not making leaps and bounds but at least I am not completely paralyed.
I need to get on with the divorce but every time I do I just spin out of control with grief. I will try again next week.

Love to all of you,

Sea storm

Seastorm,

Well done you!  You really are doing so well with lots of positive small steps in the right direction.

Leah x

[pennyplant]

Well, axa, your description of a sexual relationship with an N makes a lot of sense if I apply it to the N I knew.  I sure would hate being treated that way.  And the N I knew always complained that his wife wouldn't have sex with him.  Now I can see why.  More power to her.  The thing is, I think he only complained about it because he sensed he could gather a lot of sympathy for himself.  He too was mainly interested in porn and imagining sex in his own mind.  It all makes so much sense with what you say.

Pennyplant

[seastorm]

How a person behaves sexually says a lot about them. I have been reading voraciously about narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths.  Before I thought they were labels that were pretty cut and dried but they are more like a continuum where a person can fall withing the mild, medium and extreme areas. I also think that a person's personality can deteriorate under stress and then then the sociopathic or narcissistic parts of them really come out. Often people say that they did not see the characteristics of narcissism in their partner and maybe they weren't blatantly there at the time but came out with gusto when the partner was under stress. This makes sense to me.

One characteristic of all three disorders is a preference for auto erotic sex. This is a sign of a seriously disordered person. And the only way they can rationalize their behaviour is to say it is their partners fault.  It seems that if they prefer auto-erotism (masturbation) then they get up to some pretty deviant stuff if they actually do want to participate with a partner.
The other thing that all three have in common is pathological lying.

I am often tempted to write to XN and tell him that I know about how he swindlled me out of tens of thousands of dollars but I know it would be useless. He has no conscience. He really doesn't.  As soon as I started to have boundaries and say that he had to contribute money to the mortgage etc. He was gone. This signalled the end of the relationship to him. Now I am seeing a man who is so infantile that he can't see himself sharing responsibility for a house and home.

The systematic undermining of my personality over years and years will take quite a while to undo. Hmmmm that sounds so rational.  Right now I can barely get out of bed. I take little trips out into the world. I am still in a trance like one of  Bluebeard's brides.
Up unitl now I was sort of hoping that he would come crawling back to me and apologize for all the misery he had caused. However, I think he is on vacation in Mexico and much too busy for that. Now, I think every once in awhile that I am lucky that he is gone. He feels very gone and not coming back. Furniture everything is gone. Yard still has stuff in it. No word from him.

Today is the first day that I did not cry.  Wow. My body still feels like it is in shock and I wake up in the morning and think, "Oh my God, the worst has really happened" but then I just keep going.

It is horrible when someone has hurt you badly but doesn't feel a thing about it. It is really ghastly.

Sea storm