Author Topic: Addiction Me and Ns  (Read 2742 times)

axa

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Addiction Me and Ns
« on: February 01, 2007, 08:52:36 AM »
I have noticed that addiction has come up on so many posts over the past while that I would like if others would share their thoughts on addiction.  I realise that some people have written before on this but I find it very helpful because I am only now, coming to terms with the fact that I have an addiction to N relationships.  That I have been in there because of my "codependant" addiction to save, be the good one, etc.... you all know the story.

I have been having fleeting thoughts about intimacy.  The question in my head right now is "Why have I always chosen relationships with men who do not want to be intimate - I am talking about real intimacy and to some extent sexual intimacy -"  Is there something here about the addiction  to the drama keeps ME away from real intimacy. 

I think of people I know who are in deeply intimate relationships........ maybe some friends who are married for a long time.  And you know what, while I envy them there is something which is almost boring about their relationships.  I have never admitted t his before.  Sure boring sounds wonderful right now but the reality is that I choose the drama ALWAYS.

Really appreicate thoughts on this one.

axa

Bones

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 12:19:56 PM »
Ohhhhh, there are so many facets to this issue!!

Right now, I need to step back as I am dealing with a lot of emotions at the moment and I no longer feel safe to share them anymore.

Bones

isittoolate

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 03:10:43 PM »
(axa)))

Perhaps it is not so much an addiction, but a way to mend any dysfunction in your past, with your FOO, or some other area.

You cannot fix, your father, so you look for a  man to fix, and you cannot fix him either.

An ongoing battle?

xx
Izzy

debkor

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 03:37:29 PM »
Axa,

I know what you mean.

I think I know now why I was attracted/addicted to an N.

I grew up in an Irish/Catholic family.  My mom came from a very abusive family.  I believe that her dad was the biggest N walking.  She was born in the 20s and grew up in the depression.  They were very poor.  She had 6 siblings.  My mom was the oldest.  She took on the role of mother for her brothers and sister since her dad was such a bastard and her step mom was a brain dead fool.  Her dad was always out boozing it and gambling their money away.  Her step mom sat there and let it happen and let my mom take care of the rest of the kids.  She resented them both. 
I never was allowed to see my grandfather alone.  I didn’t know why?  Till this day I still do not but I have some thoughts why. 
My dad’s family I really don’t know much about.  All I know is that he left when he was 15 years old. 

My mom and dad got married.   They had my sister and me.  My sister is five years older then I.  My dad was one of the boys.  He hung out much later then he should have.
My mom would fight with my dad about this.  Sometimes well a lot in front of us and if not in front of us we would hear it.  I would hear her say GET OUT!  He never did leave though and she really never wanted him too. 

My dad was a good provider and we had a lot of money.  My mom also worked which was unusual in those days.  Most people were staying at home moms.  So she was kind of a rebel.


Now I can see the roles we all took on.

My mom and dad took on healing her (inner child) and her issues with her own mom and dad through my father.  She rebelled, She fought, and She wanted him to hear her Voice that she never had as a kid. Yet I don’t think she knew it.  They didn’t have the resources we have now.  Things were not talked about or it was so painful that my mom buried way deep inside herself.  My mom was very aggressive.

My dad took on the role as the provider and the man.  That’s what men did. He would he hear my mom and let it pass.  My dad was a very passive guy.  I guess like when he was a kid he just let it pass and life went on. 


Like I said in the top part.  My mom and dad would argue.  Mom would tell dad to get out.  I would cry and scream and be terrified that my dad would leave.  I would yell at my mom.  I would become hysterical.  My sister was quiet and tried to comfort me.

I took on the part of becoming aggressive very little I WANTED MY VOICE HEARD.
My sister kept quiet and worried about me.  My sister was the passive person.

Life went on.

I now know it was a learned behavior for all of us.

My sister dealt with this a lot earlier then I did.  In her 20’s she sought out therapy.
She helped awaken me and look deep into myself.  I was very resistant to this although.   She helped me become brave enough to take a good look at myself and I was setting my own destiny.  She did not let me make excuses for my behavior.  She made me face them and it set me free. 

I was addicted to drama.  I didn’t know anything else but drama. 
So what did I do?  I married into drama.  I picked up both my mom and dads ways of dealing with things.  I guess I became passive/aggressive. 

I was very aggressive with my feelings with my ex.  You did this, and you have to stop, and I will do this, and you won’t do this to me.  Blah, Blah, Blah.   
I would scream GET OUT!   Then fear of him leaving would set in.  I would get very passive then. Fear of Abandonment then like when I was scared my dad would leave.

I was repeating my childhood.  I was addicted. 

I realized it, I faced it, I went through withdrawal and I changed it.

So axa, I was addicted to drama also.  I felt that my friend’s good marriages were boring also. 
I will always be drawn to drama but know enough of my weakness, where it came from, how do deal with it and to stay away. 
Drama is truly a drug although it took me many, many years to learn this.
I got caught up in some drama again with my friend I speak about but was wise enough to know this is (the drama drug) coming back and put it to a dead stop. 
So yeah I guess I will always have the urge to go back to drama I just won’t anymore.
I just look at my scares I have and it reminds me NOT TO GO THERE. 
So I guess I’m just a recovering addict. 

I had the opportunity to sit with my mom when I was in my 30’s and discuss what I’m taking about.  She acknowledges what happened, embraced it dealt with me and admitted to her wrongs and vice-versa.  I was able to forgive, be heard, and apologize for my own wrong doings.    I was at peace.

I have never spoken about this before to anyone.  Only with my sister.

Love Deb.


axa

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 04:17:53 PM »
Bones,

So sorry you feel so vulnerable right now.  Do take care.


Izzy,

I have been aware of this issue with my father for years.  Xn reminded me so much of my Dad but I thought that XN was honest and trustworthy, sure he was a bit selfish, unaware etc but then so was my dad.  I thought that I could work through MY issues in the relationship with XN and in turn this would free me up from my father.  It was like I had given up on having big expectations with men and was goiing to settle for a bit of a boring not too eventful relationship.............little did I know.



DEB

Where do I begin.  Thank you for sharing this so private story with me.  It remeinded me so much of me as a kid.  I spent so much of my childhood trying to keep the peace between my parents trying to be heard, trying to get to raging adults to be reasonable.  The cycle of the passive moving to aggressive and back to passive is so familiar also.  I can be reasonable, adult and tried to communicate with XN on this level but when he would just throw in confusion I would get so dammed aggressive and scream at him.  My aggression came from being not heard.  The level of frustration I would feel was unreal.

I have worked so hard over the years on my issues, have known about the drama.  In fact I thought that XN's life was the antithises of drama.  It was mostly about not communicating and watching tv.  I honestly had no idea it would all turn out this way.  I had been in relationship with Ns before but he seemed different.  Well I was watching out for N signs and the fact that he was so "loving " to his daughter seemed to me that he could empathise.  Not so.  Anyway it is all very sad.

I wonder what are your thoughts on what I wrote about intimacy.  I am not clear about where I am in all of this.

Thank you for your post.  It is very very helpful to me.  Irish Catholic also!!

axa

mudpuppy

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 04:29:10 PM »
Very, very happily married seventeen years this summer. In all those years i have never had a fight with my wife.

There's a lot to be said for boring. 8) :D

mud

debkor

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 05:19:15 PM »
Marshall Hodge wrote a book called Your Fear of Love. In it he says, "We long for moments of expressions of love, closeness and tenderness, but frequently, at the critical point, we often draw back. We are afraid of closeness. We are afraid of love." Later in the same book Hodge states, "The closer you come to somebody, the greater potential there is for pain." It is the fear of pain that often drives us away from finding true intimacy.
I was giving a series of lectures at a university in southern Illinois. After one of the meetings, a woman came up to me and said, "I have to talk to you about my boyfriend problems." We sat down, and she began telling me her troubles. After a few moments, she made this statement: "I am now taking steps never to get hurt again." I said to her, "In other words, you are taking steps never to love again." She had thought I misunderstood, so she continued. "No, that's not what I am saying. I just don't want to get hurt anymore. I don't want pain in my life." I said, "That's right, you don't want love in your life." You see, there is no such thing as "painless love." The closer we come to somebody, the greater potential there is for pain.
I would estimate that you (and around 100 percent of the population) would say you have been hurt in a relationship before. The question is, how do you handle that hurt? In order to camouflage the pain, a lot of us give people what I call the "double-sign." We say to a person, "Look, I want you to come closer to me. I want to love and be loved . . . but wait a minute, I've been hurt before. No, I don't want to talk about these subjects. I don't want to hear those things." We build walls around our hearts to protect us from anyone on the outside getting in to hurt us. But that same wall which keeps people out, keeps us stuck inside. The result? Loneliness sets in and true intimacy and love become impossible.

Axa,
I did not read this book. I found it on the net. I do not agree with all of it but I take what I need from it.   I can make some sense to this.  I think I looked for people who (I never could get true intimacy with and love became impossible.)  I think  I built a wall around myself like he says to protect myself from the outside cause I didn’t’ want to get hurt again.  (Like when I was a kid),But the wall which kept (the boring people out the good marriages) let the so learned drama in.  Like he says. The result? Loneliness sets in and true intimacy and love become impossible.  Like the loneliness in my childhood of not be heard.  This is why I sought out more people that just made me feel more and more lonely. 
I said, "That's right, you don't want love in your life." You see, there is no such thing as "painless love." The closer we come to somebody, the greater potential there is for pain

So I think for me axa I didn’t want to deal with my pain for a long time and it was a lot easier for picking people to keep it on going rather then get rid of it.   I had made it impossible for myself to find love. If I was going to I would have to deal with my pain and that was so hard to do. 
 I don’t know if it helps but I can see from this why I did some of the things I did and why I was repeating the cycle. 
Do u relate to anything in this like I do?

Love Deb.

axa

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 08:16:00 PM »
Mud,

I envy you and your wife.  Well done to both of you.  May I add that due to my crazy childhood I had no idea what "normal" was and now recognise that "boring" is normal and what I have experienced is anything but.


Deb,

Printing off your reply as I need to read it.............. thank you for all the time with your response.


axa

axa

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 05:00:45 AM »
Hi

Took some time out to think about this.

Marshall Hode wrote we about drawing back at the critical moment.  I am not sure about this.  I think I am ready to move into the intimacy and closeness.  I think my motivation is different now, less needy than it used to be.  This is where I felt I was when I met XN  I think of Muds posting about being married for 17 years.  There is something about the other making it safe.  I have been open to love especially with XN and I trusted but there is something about the lack of trust that I cannot put my finger on.  HELP

I do think it is the fear of pain that stops Ns from finding true intimacy with themselves or others.

Maybe we should look at what does LOVE mean.  For me it means respect, care, support, being able to see the other person as seperate.......... why should this involve pain.  It is I guess our expectation of the same from the other which causes the pain.  Wonder if we loved with no expectations how that would be.  Do we continue to love once we realise that there is nothing coming back or is it attachment we feel and desire.  OPINIONS PLEASE

How do you handle the hurt........... this is a good point.  The more whole I think we are the easier it is to move on and walk away.  I dont know if it is common to most people on this site but in relationship I let everything slide so that the man becomes the focus of my life.  I think keeping a very healthy balance of other things in you r life has to make it easier to handle the hurt.

I think the Ns have built walls, as many of us have, I know I have in the past but somehow the walls keep allowing the NS in. 

Deb I think there is something significant about boundaries.  the walls that let the drama in means that there is not a clear boundary there.  To walk away from the drama is so hard for me.  I need to practise this all around me.

You talk about the loneliness of your childhood.  I know this, also when I was with XN I became so aware of how lonely I was.  Not being seen/heard cut off is such a lonely place and yet we would walk down the street holding hands and to the outside we looked like mr 7 mrs happy.

Deb I relate so much to what you said.  The cycles.  But I am getting better.  Sure I ended up with another N shit but I did not end up catatonic like the last time.  I am getting better on some level.

I see some of my sisters who are in very loving relationship and their love is not painful.  I really do see this.  They have pain and difficulty in their lives but their partners are caring, loving men who support them. It does not have to be about pain.

I think looking at love and desire and drama may give us more clarity on this.  I went for drama, desire and called it love.......... it wasnt it was playing out old stuff.  I still can feel the excitement when I think of Xn, but that is not love.  I loved what he projected which was very much a copy of some of my charateristics, honesty, trustworthyness............. I was loving something in myself that he took on.  One of the other posts today was amazing about this.  The N becoming a reflection of you to lure you in.  We did not love the reality of the Ns we met. 

I would really like to talk more about this Deb but gotta go now maybe we could start another thread on the meaning of love/desire/drama/attachment.


Thanks for your thoughts,


axa

axa

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 09:07:10 AM »
CB

Good to have this validated.  The more time XN spent with Xwife the more he sounded like her.  He did tell me at one stage that whoever he is with he feels like he merges with that person and takes on their characteristics...................


axa

CB123

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2007, 09:14:17 AM »
He did tell me at one stage that whoever he is with he feels like he merges with that person and takes on their characteristics

Yikes, Axa.  He admitted it. 

I'm glad you're free of him. 

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

axa

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 09:27:00 AM »
cb

Chamelion Man or what???????????

axa

Hopalong

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 12:00:35 PM »
Hi all,
Wow, what a great thread.
I take issue in a mild way with Hodge just because I want to fool with his words' meaning...
I think it's kind of black and white, the way he expresses, love = allowing pain, no love = no pain.
And, walls around the heart.

I think there's a lot of confusion with fusion. IOW, I think what I used to think love was, was actually not intimacy at all but a total collapse of healthy flexible boundaries that should ALWAYS be in place because they are simply the natural container of a healthy self.

So when I love again, I do want to be very close and affectionate and listen deeply and allow my heart to be moved. But I never again will drop ALL of my boundaries and let my self flow away. If it's become sturdy enough to stand there like a little Jello thing, quivering some but not melting, then I'm fine. But if it's going to go all oceanic woo-woo, it's not fine for me.

I have a huge capacity for loyalty and devotion, and considerable empathy, and lots of intuition and verbal stuff to bring and share in a love relationship. But I no longer have the ability or desire to drop all the containing walls around my heart and let someone else's disturbance become my own. I can be a partner's ally, tenderest friend, lover, and mate. But I won't be feeling their pain FOR them. I'll feel my own in sympathy, but I will not try to take theirs into my deep self.

Hope I'm making sense...

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

mudpuppy

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2007, 02:44:57 PM »
I think love is simple but takes many forms.
At it's most basic I believe it is commitment to the support and well being of another. I believe in it's ideal form it does involve sacrifice of oneself for the other. If the sacrifice is mutual  then you have a wonderful, loving relationship.

The problems arise when it is not mutual. When one sacrifices and the other merely takes you have misery and, potentially, abuse.
At that point, if the other is rigid and will not compromise, we have to decide if love is better expressed from afar. We don't have to hate a taker or abuser but neither do we have to stay with them. We can do as CS Lewis described love, hoping and praying for the best for someone, from a very great distance. A distance from which they can no longer harm us.

mud

Leah

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Re: Addiction Me and Ns
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2007, 03:25:21 PM »
Quote
We can do as CS Lewis described love, hoping and praying for the best for someone, from a very great distance. A distance from which they can no longer harm us.

Mud,

Absolutely, pure wisdom in those words.

Leah
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