Author Topic: Have you experienced stalking?  (Read 18625 times)

cindy

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Have you experienced stalking?
« on: August 15, 2003, 01:16:51 AM »
Hi.

I'm an older college student studying psychology, on my way to law school.  I'm working on a senior thesis, qualitative, and will be interviewing victims stalked by former intimates.  I'll be looking at what victims have observed about their stalkers' behaviors, past and present.

I've become more and more interested in seeing if there is a correlation between former intimate stalkers and cluster B personality disorders.  My ex-husband stalks me, and I believe he would be diagnosed as a narcissist.  His behavior is passive-aggressive and very dramatic.  The most telling thing he ever said to me was after he smashed a finger.  He was making a lot of noise but looking at me sideways.  I said, "Why don't you just say ouch when it hurts?"  He said, "I don't know when it hurts."  Other than a few similar flashes of insight, I think he has no idea who he is.

I belong to two stalking boards, and they have been an immense help.  The people there seem to observe the same traits in their former intimate stalkers.  I keep qualifying stalker as I believe people stalk for many reasons, most but not all about control.

I'm here for two reasons.  First, I am still reeling from finding out that my husband of 16 years had a secret life, almost from the start, and I need to find peace with that; and I believe I will be safer if I can understand his motivations better.  Although they make some sense to me, the way he must think is still so illogical and foreign to the way I think.

Second, I am hoping that anyone who has a stalking story would share it with me.  I have not yet met with my committee about participant selection, and so may not be able to include stories from a board dealing with narcissism, but if I can, I would also like to include you in my research.

Nic

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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2003, 01:59:08 AM »
Hi Cindy!

Thanks for dropping by. Stalking is about the only thing I haven't experienced!  Good luck with your  research nevertheless. It'll be interesting to see if anyone has experienced stalking in the context of a N relationship.
Kind regards,
Nic :wink:

rosencrantz

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2003, 07:06:13 AM »
Hi Cindy - to understand deeply his stalking behaviour, I'd recommend Patricia Evans 'Controlling People'.  It doesn't 'specialise' in stalkers but it really does take you through step by step the process by which they arrive where they do.

But I don't think of narcissists as passive-aggressive.  They're too outright aggressive with their raging and paranoia for that.

That story about not knowing when it hurts...wow!  He sounds totally disconnected.  What kind of abuse did he go through as a child??  The disconnection might also explain the 'secret life' - well, it was secret from you - was it secret from him, too??  I mean, did he see himself as living  both lives at the same time or was he disconnected in each of them, too???  I'm not suggesting he's got a split personality, but have you read 'Sybil'???

R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anika

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Stalkers Suck!
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2003, 09:09:58 AM »
I have been stalked many a time. I don't know what it is about me (I blame it on universal pheromones) but I seem to attract AAAALLLLL kinds! :lol:

My first stalker was an older boyfriend that I had no business with in the first place. I was 16 and he was 21. It all started with controling and posessive behavior. He used to tell me that someone saw me with another guy and told him about it. Of course, it wasn't true. He was just trying to get me to admit to something even though I wasn't doing anything. In fact, HE was cheating on me!

Anyway, I attempted to end the relationship on several occasions but I was completely out of my league. I had no idea how to handle him. He began waiting in our garage for me to get home from school. I was afraid to take a ride home if it was offered because if there was another male in the car I knew I'd be in trouble and so would the other guy - just because he was in the car with me!

After I finally got rid of him, I had a series of other stalkers - three I think - who were also either astranged lovers or suitors. They would follow me and spy on me. One of them actually tried to hire someone to beat up my boyfriend at the time! He also put dead roses on my car and hung up signs along roads that I frequently drove along begging me to be with him. One night he called me claiming that he had a gun in his hand and he was going to shoot himself if I didn't go out with him. I hung up on him!  :lol:

All that was while I was still in high school. I have only had one other stalker since then and he too was an exlover. He howled outside of my window for hours wailing and crying for me to come back to him. I had left him because he was cheating on me! Go figure!  :roll:

As far as criminal behavior goes, the first stalker is the only one that I know for sure got in trouble with the law. The others I don't know about, but I'm sure it was only a matter of time.
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

CC

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2003, 10:04:30 AM »
I am certainly not an expert, but generally I would venture to say that stalking if not a common narcissist behavior, because  if they are not getting their supply of adoration met, they seek it elsewhere.  That is not to say that your stalker is not a narcissist, however.

The narcissists in my life will almost do the opposite when you excercise distance.  They will often "desert" you to try and induce GUILT, while perhaps occasionally leaving you a message or coming back to your life to say how "so and so" is so great, and why can't you be more like them, and see, because "so and so" is doing everything they get [this] etc. or tell you what a horrible person you are for not catering to their every need, or how you're missing out.

I think it is great that you are exploring all the areas.  Good luck with your recovery and research.
CC - 'If it sucks longer than an hour, get rid of it!'

Kims Man

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2003, 03:16:07 PM »
There are certainly degrees of stalking.  People have different styles,  and I think a narcisit is more likely to be a low key stalker,  at least my ex-wife is.  I also think they would not comprehend that they're a stalker.  My ex-wife certainly wouldn't.

What I've experienced is being spied on,  seeing my ex in the distance watching me.  She refuses to call to arrange visitation with my kids,  but will show up unannounced and bang on my door and "chain call" my phone.  I won't answer the door when she just shows up.  

She's misrepresented herself to my company to obtain my business travel plans,  including forging my name on a request and faxing it in.  (I found out about this when I got a call from someone saying they had just faxed me the information I requested.)  

I've been called at Hotels where I'm staying to the point that I use my first name as my last name at Hotels now.  I got a call from a hotel once informing that the signiture on the request for my detailed billing from that hotel did not match my signiture on file and they wouldn't be able to send me the information I had requested (obviously, my ex-wife requested this,  not me.)  

She'll chain call my phones..  dozens of times in an hour..  as if I'm supposed to drop everything when she calls.  And remember..  I get these calls at hotels,  and when she thinks she needs to talk with me,  but I CAN'T get a return call to arrange to pick up my kids for visitation.

With me,  except for the unnanounced drop bys and frantic multiple phone calls (which aren't constant..  once or twice a month) her stalking is not so much in my face.  Catching her spying..  knowing she takes my mail..  I've missed payments because I never got bills a few times.  I get 1000 times more attention now than when I lived with her. Seeing her driving by or following me..  without ever confronting me..  The hard part for me is knowing I have absolutely no privacy.  She's gotten my bank statements,  phone bills (She's called the numbers on my phone bill.)  I might sound paranoid,  I guess.  I don't think I am.  I'm not even overly concerned.  I just feel violated at times.  She neglected me for 2 decades.  I wish she could do that now!

rosencrantz

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2003, 03:42:12 PM »
It's scary, isn't it - I've often felt that my mother acted more like an unrequited lover than a mother.  It would at least make more sense!!!  In fact (realisation) my first boyfriend was like that!!

I've never lived close enough and she's never been mobile enough to physically stalk me.  But that phrase 'chain calling' is a good one to describe what she does. But she stopped most of the contact once my son was born so it's really all in the past.  She doesn't phone at all, now.

She recently described how I once put the phone down on her and she just kept talking and I kept picking up the phone and putting it down.  She reckoned my husband was picking it up and telling me to be nicer to her (he would NOT!).  I've struggled to remember this and I have a vague memory of pressing the loudspeaker button on the phone and finding her still there, still talking.  She expressed deep genuine hurt and so it sounds awful of me but at the same time, it's an example of her resistance to anyone else's reality.

"Please stop going on at me, mum".  She'd continue relentlessly until I'd be desperately begging her to stop.  Still her total inability/refusal to stop forcing herself on me.  I now see it as her trying to force me to 'be' the person she wanted me to be -or 'be' her - something like that.

She even got a postal vote for me and voted 'as me' in the national parliamentary elections!!!  

'Be mine' seems to be the message.  It makes me feel creepy, sad, sorrowful, but ultimately my answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

But at the same time, I asked her what on earth she was doing to herself, keep on talking when someone has rejected her, pretending that things are other than they are...I was trying to be gentle, but I felt : does she have no self-esteem whatsoever that she can't control herself in this kind of situation.  I become the ugly ogre in the story of unrequited love...but what is she???

These days I know she doesn't want to risk the rejection.  Or maybe she thinks she's punishing me by not calling.  Who knows...

Two wicked witches of the West....
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anonymous

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2003, 03:44:59 PM »
Thanks, all.  Rosencranz, his dad was an alcoholic, they moved a lot, and thought they were oh so special.  His mom actually told me he had the best of everything, and the ex told me he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.  They were upper middle class, living on credit.  They had no friends, just people they "helped" and told about, and people they sought and adored with more money than they had.  The no friends was the first thing I noticed, as I come from a blue collar, rural, nonmobile family, and friends and their support was very important to us.  He was an only child, his mother was intrusive and controlling; she actually opened and read our mail.

This story might explain.  They gave us a chest freezer.  We were moving away (from them), and so called and asked if they wanted it.  They said sell it, I said how big should I say in the ad?  They said they had no idea.  So I measured it and advertised it as having the cubic feet a freezer from a catalog with similar dimensions had.  They called furious.  It was not ** feet, it was at least ***** feet.  Which was impossible.  Everything they had was the best and endlessly talked about.  I think the Ex was the best, because he was their child.

Yes, he was fully aware of his secret life, but could disassociate to the extent that when not directly confronted with evidence, I think he almost believed his lies.  He is a compulsive liar, lying just for the sake of lying, even when it will eventually hurt him or when there is no reason for it.  He denied and denied the car, for example, but in divorce property mediation he was trying to argue about every little thing, so I quickly brought up the car, and he saw I was ready to bring it all up, with documentation.  So he backed off immediately.  I'm guessing he hadn't even told his attny, and didn't want evidence he was so slimy.  He feels entirely justified, but, just like with the smashed finger, there are these self-preserving insights that keep him from going too far.

Paul Mullen, a researcher in Australia, treats stalkers.  I'm not remembering exactly what he had found, and don't have time to look it up right now, but there is indication of a higher rate of cluster B than the average criminal, if I remember right.  I'll have to check.  Anyway, there are suggestions we will find higher N, borderline, and histrionic disorders in stalkers.

He is vengeful and rages inwardly, showing a cold, icy exterior.  He was angry at me for three days when I was in the hospital and sick at the birth of our son.  He was angry because I had gone into labor early, and plans had to be changed.  Also, because my son and I were sick, the cost was much higher.  What is ironic is that my dad paid the bill.

He is in a bad place - waiting tables at 56 with a BA, lost four jobs in the last four years since we split, has had a concealed weapons permit since 1989, unbeknownst to me until two years ago, and had a total of 4 PO Boxes, one in the next town.  I don't know what all he is into.

I believe the secret life made him feel important, in control, and all powerful.  I think that's also what he gets from stalking me.  Which is ironic, because he's letting it control him.  But that doesn't do me any good.

I hope I answered all questions.  Thanks again.

cindy

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2003, 03:46:52 PM »
Cindy above, forgot to log in.

Lindsay

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2003, 04:53:45 PM »
This is interesting.  My N father has exhibited stalker-like behaviour, but nowhere near as obvious or scary as what has been said already.

I'm American but I've been living overseas for the past two years, and my dad used to like to play games even from such a distance.  He would look up my name on the internet, so he could find out what my screennames were on programs like AOL Instant Messenger.  Then he would send me messages for no apparent reason, other than to show me that he could be "resourceful."

He used to tell me as a child not to worry about my privacy.  He would promise not to read my journals, thus giving me comfort with leaving them around my room, unhidden.  Of course he used that opportunity to read them when I wasn't around, and would bring up things I wrote about with me later.

There are probably other things he's done that I don't remember, or that aren't sticking out in my mind at this moment.  My father has also tended to act like a jealous, unrequited lover at times.

cindy

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2003, 06:26:34 PM »
In Melloy's book The Psychology of Stalking, Clinical and Forensic Perspectives, Edited by J. Reid Meloy Chapter 4 “Psychiatric Diagnosis and the Offender—Victim Typology of Stalking” by Michael A. Zona, M.D., Russell E. Palarea, M.A., and John C. Lane, Jr., M.P.A.  the following:
"These four personality disorders—antisocial, borderline, histrionic and narcissistic—are the most frequently involved in stalking. The essential feature of this cluster is that, at their core, individuals with these disorders lack their own identity, or sense of self, which prevents them from establishing an appropriate rapport with and attachment to others."

Some resources for further investigation, if you're interested, can be found at http://www.stalkingawareness.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=154

Guest

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Stalking
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2003, 03:52:36 PM »
I have just found this site and I am wondering if CC would respond.

CC said that the N's in her life usually responded to her "absences" by distancing themselves (a kind of behaviour).  I have known the N in my life for a few years.  He has twice severed the "relationship" for genuine reasons.  However, around last May he began to distance himself and refused to see me when I asked.  He is cerebral N.  However he continued to "dangle the carrot" by telephone text messages, but eventually I said I would not text him again, until I had seen him.  
Since then, he has sent an infrequent e-mail, but has not texted at all.
He still seemed to be fairly "affectionate" in his e-mails.  I thought (mistakenly) that he would have been delighted when I texted him again after 4 months, but he has ignored me totally, which is totally different behaviour.  What has worked in the past is no longer working.  It is as though because I "distanced" he is now doing the same thing.
CC, could you please explain this phenomena a little more - did the N actually come forward again?  I read extensively on N forums, but I am not sure what to expect next.  For your information, the n is a successful business person, but as far as "relationships" go, I am the only one.  I do know this for a fact.  Thanks for any information.

cindy

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2003, 03:59:47 PM »
A new site for victims of domestic violence, abuse and stalking, run by a woman I trust and have known for a while.  It would be great to have a narcissism area on the boards, as many of us are dealing with Ns.

http://saveyourspirit.org/phpBB2/index.php

mcg31360

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Have you experienced stalking?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2003, 05:49:49 AM »
Just wanted to suggest a very good book I found out about in another Nforum called, "Why  Does He DO That? by Lundy Bancroft.  I am now reading it for the second time.  It is not about stalking directly, but there is a wealth of information about angry and controlling people.  While written primarily about men, it could also apply to women.

Cathi

Anonymous

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Stalking
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2003, 10:28:28 AM »
I just recently found this board, and this thread rings especially true for me.  I'm pretty certain my mom is an N, and she exihibits stalking behavior.

I went to an out of state school in college.  And she would call all hours of the night if I didn't answer, demand to know where I was at all times.  She called my boss where I worked on campus to make sure I was at work.  She called my dean to check on my progress.  She called my friends to see if I was in their rooms.  And no matter what I told her, she believed I was lying to her.  If I didn't return her calls, then she would threaten to drive to the school and take me home or call the police to take my car away.

After I graduated, she cooled that behavoir somewhat.  But when I started making plans to move out of my parents house and get my own house, she then charged thousands of dollars in my name so that I couldn't get a loan or a rental house.  She calls my work and gets very angry if I'm away on a call and not at my desk.  She goes through my things, reads my journals, goes through the files on my computer, etc.  Anytime I try to put any distance between us, she tries to snatch me back because I seem to be the only reason she has for living.

Except now she has my son to work her charms on, and she tries to control him the way she controlled me.  In fact, I barely seem to exist for her at the moment.  She seldom speaks to me unless she absolutely has to.

I do however, plan on moving far away from her and getting my son away from her, so I expect the stalking behavior to return.