Author Topic: Hello  (Read 6826 times)

October

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Hello
« on: August 15, 2003, 04:11:40 PM »
I've read a few posts and want to reply to lots of them, but I will have to take it slowly, I'm afraid, because I am not very strong, but there are a lot of familiar stories here.  

I have ptsd, which I know is not the topic of this forum, but it is the end result of Nmum and Nsupporting dad, N?brothers and Nhusband (now ex).  It is very difficult for me to be visible, to the extent that I have developed social phobia - very complicated.  I can go out, if I really have to, but I prefer not to because all sorts of things trigger ptsd symptoms, mainly as a result of 'not wanted' and 'be quiet' and 'stop showing off' kinds of messages from pre-historic times.   :lol:

Anyway, I no longer work, nor do anything else much at all.  I sleep a lot of the time, or read, to prevent flashbacks etc.  I have a daughter who is the healthiest member of my family emotionally, and I have three nephews, the oldest two of whom are damaged by their dad (my brother) in the same way as he was damaged by my mum, except he has forgotten and I remember.  

Voicelessness is one issue.  Memory is another.  I have no voice, but I remember.  The others are allowed a voice, because they have agreed to forget.  However, voice or not, I am still here.

More tomorrow, maybe.  BFN

October

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2003, 02:04:46 PM »
Quote from: rob
What an Interesting perspective...

Thanks   :oops:

<<I like to think that I lost my voice because i had no choice as a child - and that now that i see these truths so clearly - the difference for me is that i am not going to, nor have i, forgotten the reality of those horrible memories>>


I think there is a closer connection between these two than has been realised.  I think it is because the child can see the reality, but cannot find a place where that reality is accepted, outside their own perspective, that the words disappear.  

It is as if a child could see a colour that no-one else in the world could see.  No matter how they tried and tried to say anything at all about this colour, there would be no-one to understand, no-one to share the experience.  An adult in that position would find the words to speak, and perhaps persuade someone to investigate, if they were lucky, and would have some credibility, but a child in that position would be simply not believed.  No-one listens to the child, and therefore it never finds the way to say, 'something is wrong'.

Even today, I find it hard to explain when things are wrong.  I do not monitor my own body, I dissociate and have a very high threshold
of pain.  If I do have anything wrong I invariably find myself apologising for wasting the doctor's time before I start, either directly or indirectly.

There is something wrong with my family.  I am not sure about my brothers, because I love them too dearly to believe they couldn't escape the way I have, or see what I can see too clearly, but they really can't.  They are fond of me in their own way, but have no idea whatever of emotional needs, or of me as a person separate from 'their sister'.  From the simplest things such as my favourite food or music or colour; they know nothing whatever about me.

And dear mum is just the leading lady in her own particular melodrama, with me as one of the supporting cast; there to reflect the limelight back onto her, whatever I do.   Nothing more.  And very often she lives the whole play in monologue, requiring only an audience.

Can't say much more.  Writing here is causing dissonance.  Time to shut up.  (Voice in my head, very cross: 'give over, will you!!!!!!')

Neko

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Hello
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2003, 05:03:53 PM »
October - I had an experience a few years ago that your words strongly remind me of. I don't know enough about your situation to go so far as to say it's similar, but what you've said certainly strikes a chord.

I'm in my mid-to-late twenties, and only fully escaped my parents (NPD mom) six years ago. My first year away was kind of like walking out of a spooky forest filled with wild beasts into a kinder, gentler world - I was honestly shocked at how people all seemed normal, treated me kindly (ie they never treated me like my parents had), and got through life without nearly as much effort as I put into it.

In my second year away, I started going through a rough period that would end up lasting three years. Now that I know about PTSD and how it relates to being a child of a parent with NPD, I'm almost certain that was what I had - I didn't have access to counseling though (language, money and insurance issues. Try describing all the complexities of an emotionally and psychologically abusive childhood in a foreign language! :shock:) My husband and I were married and living far away from my family. It was as if I had a rug pulled out from under me. I was depressed, had paranoid tendencies, was afraid to talk with people, avoided going out as much as possible, and couldn't stop the onslaught of "inner N-parent" voices. Panic, fear, anxiety were with me every day, and not having any idea what to do, I tried disciplining myself into not having those feelings.

The attempt at discipline only made it worse. Finally, near the beginning of my third year and at the worst I can remember - being paralyzed by anxiety, shame, guilt, fear, you name it - I just said "Fine. I'm afraid. So I'll be afraid." And I let the fear wash over me without trying to stop it. I cried like never before, clear memories of my mother wrongly accusing me and my father just letting it happen came to mind, anger built up and I let that come too, without trying to stop it. It was frightening... but it was also freeing. I felt better for the first time in years, even though I had no clear idea why.

I found out not much later by coincidence that acknowledging one's feelings without judgment is actually an excellent way of healing, because you give yourself voice that way. I started doing meditation - not for religious reasons, but as a way of observing my emotions and accepting them for what they were. In that last "bad" year, even though I was depressed, I saw it for what it was: pulling myself out of the hole, just by learning how to identify and acknowledge my emotions, no matter how frightening.

Have you tried accepting those emotions, without judgment, just letting yourself be as you are? By acknowledging yourself and accepting yourself as your parents never did, you give yourself a voice. I was also genuinely surprised at how many more childhood memories came back when I did it, and even though they're painful, they've allowed me to identify with others, find validation and finally have a voice, however shy and incertain it is :)

October

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Hello
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2003, 03:37:05 PM »
Quote from: Neko
October - I had an experience a few years ago that your words strongly remind me of. I don't know enough about your situation to go so far as to say it's similar, but what you've said certainly strikes a chord.  ...

I found out not much later by coincidence that acknowledging one's feelings without judgment is actually an excellent way of healing, because you give yourself voice that way. I started doing meditation - not for religious reasons, but as a way of observing my emotions and accepting them for what they were. In that last "bad" year, even though I was depressed, I saw it for what it was: pulling myself out of the hole, just by learning how to identify and acknowledge my emotions, no matter how frightening.

Have you tried accepting those emotions, without judgment, just letting yourself be as you are? By acknowledging yourself and accepting yourself as your parents never did, you give yourself a voice. I was also genuinely surprised at how many more childhood memories came back when I did it, and even though they're painful, they've allowed me to identify with others, find validation and finally have a voice, however shy and incertain it is :)



What you say makes sense, except that in my case I would like to change just one thing.  I would like to not be alone when all that happens, because looking back it always seems as if I have been alone emotionally and trying to cope - coping - with things just because I had to, because there was no alternative.  I did that for so many years, because there was no other way, and in the end something somewhere inside decided enough is enough.

If I could find one person to stay with me while I cry, just once, that would be enough, but of course I can't let anyone see me cry, because that is weak and silly, and used to generate anger from my parents, so I can't let anyone see it.  If I try to let the feelings come when I am alone I will just end up retraumatised, because I have been upset and alone once again.

Hope you don't think I am being awkward - your suggestion makes a lot of sense.  It is as if I need to find someone to listen, but whenever I try something goes wrong, and it is a nightmare all over again.  Family, therapists, doctors; they all look as if they are listening, but in fact I might as well be talking Chinese for all the difference it makes.  And the message is not difficult or complicated or PHD stuff.  It is simply that I have ptsd, and I need help to get through it, and where can I find that help.  I have read books about it, and they all say ptsd can be treated and to find help straight away, but when I try I either live in the wrong place or else there is no-one available.  At present I am on yet another waiting list for yet another therapist, and I am trying to think, maybe this time, but it does get harder.  Easier to keep away, and hide from it all.

And ptsd is not a stable condition.  As you describe, it can spontaneously go away, given the right conditions.  And it can also continue to get worse, and that is what is happening with me.

Today I went to see a friend and he was angry with me, and so I left and came home again, and today I am thinking, if I go nowhere, and see noone, I can't get hurt any more.  That is where I am.  And this was one of the 'good' friends, one of those who understands.

I would like to be optimistic, but tonight I am feeling battered all over again.

Neko

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Hello
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2003, 03:05:48 AM »
That doesn't sound awkward at all - actually I skipped over a lot when I wrote my post :? I did have someone with me through all that, my husband. However, like you I always felt a need to hide the worst from him... he was always able to tell though. His validation and support through it all, and not taking any nonsense from me at times were really key - so I totally understand you wanting to find someone to be with you.

Don't worry about your friend, he's probably a "normal" type who learned how to express anger healthily and so for him it's not as big of a deal as it is for us kids who learned that expressing emotions is life-threatening. Don't take his anger too personally! (and that's not some kind of criticism, just a suggestion - I always feel uncomfortable making suggestions, thinking "oh they've probably figured that out by now, don't be rude" etc. etc. :) )

October

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Hello
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2003, 05:16:34 AM »
Quote from: Neko
That doesn't sound awkward at all - actually I skipped over a lot when I wrote my post :? I did have someone with me through all that, my husband. However, like you I always felt a need to hide the worst from him... he was always able to tell though. His validation and support through it all, and not taking any nonsense from me at times were really key - so I totally understand you wanting to find someone to be with you.

Don't worry about your friend, he's probably a "normal" type who learned how to express anger healthily and so for him it's not as big of a deal as it is for us kids who learned that expressing emotions is life-threatening. Don't take his anger too personally! (and that's not some kind of criticism, just a suggestion - I always feel uncomfortable making suggestions, thinking "oh they've probably figured that out by now, don't be rude" etc. etc. :) )



Thanks Neko.  

If he is a normal type then that is fine, as you say - I just caught him at a bad time, and I know he has been very busy recently.  It's just that I wonder sometimes whether I have any healthy friends at all, and when a row comes out of nowhere it is easy to see shades of N behaviour in it.  I suppose many of us become Nish when we are rowing.  But that gives me the jitters, and I just want to run and hide.  Then of course the opposite thought comes in, that I am becoming paranoid.  So I live on this seesaw of emotions and conflicting thoughts of is it me or is it him/them.  And usually the best way to end any conflict is to give in and think, it must be me.  And always, the question why? over and over again.

However, as you say, to him this is not personal, and it is forgotten.  We pay a different price for having a disagreement.