Is it a conscious choice

[steve]

Steve

Just a quick primer. I am the adult son of a narcissist who has suffered self-esteem issues and does not feel like I exist or have any meaning in life. Anyways, I am sure many of you can relate. I have been in therapy now for four weeks and it is the best thing I have ever done. i am nowhere near feeling healed but for the first time I do see a tiny light at th end of the tunnel. So I will persist and hopefully finally pull myself out of this nightmare.

I started reading "Drama of the Gifted Child" again and this time I am staying very aware. I had difficulty reading it before but this time I have been very conscious and open about what she is trying to say.

My dilemma is this. I understand the concept that only an abused person can become an abuser. Taking this perspective however, causes me to feel guilt. I feel guilty for hating him because I convince myself that he knows no better and that he has suffered. Just like I can not blame a blind person for stepping on my foot, how can I blame a sick person for trampling on my existence. I need to get beyond this.

But it occurred to. He does not do this to everyone. He did not do this to my sisters. He does not do this to those he admires and give him his narcissistic supply. So, if he does this selectively, then it must be a conscious choice. Deep down, he may be able to rationalize his behaviors and feel very comfortable in his actions. But this does not let him off. You can not choose to be "blind" at will. Either you are or you are not. Therefore, for what he has done to me, he is to blame. I have no room in my heart for forgiveness and to be honest I do not think it would matter. The person being forgiven would have to acknowledge the deed and he would not. Therefore, forgiving him would be the same as forgiving a car you walk in to by mistake. It would mean nothing and have no value.

I guess, what I need is to accept the fact that he did this somewhat consciously so that I can finally bury him in my mind and realize that I never had a father. At this point I am still in the stage of feeling sorry for him and this causes me great guilt. How sick is it to feel sorry for your abuser. How hurtful to your SELF can this very process be. Help me get through this. Show me the light.

Steve

[Leah]

I guess, what I need is to accept the fact that he did this somewhat consciously so that I can finally bury him in my mind and realize that I never had a father. At this point I am still in the stage of feeling sorry for him and this causes me great guilt. How sick is it to feel sorry for your abuser. How hurtful to your SELF can this very process be. Help me get through this. Show me the light.

Steve,

My genuine empathy and understanding to you and agreement that yes, it certainly does seem to be a conscious choice.  My mother extended love in abundance to my brother, which was wonderful for him, and again, when she remarried and had another daughter, she adored her and revered her to the point of damaging her life (different aspect - long story)

I felt truly sorry for my mother, I felt pity for her, and so I foolishly allowed my heart to rule, three years ago (I was at an all time low re: my exNh and extremely vulnerable).  I allowed her back into my life.

In effect, I now realize that I "enabled her behavior" or worse still "reinforced her behavior".

So she worked on me again with her evil tongue of malice and N behavior, resulting in my having to once again endure, traumatic stress, pick up the pieces, and start all over again, from scratch, my journey of healing and recovery.

In the book that I have read, twice now, "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout Ph.d. she states that "1 in 25 ordinary people secretly has no conscience and can do anything at all without feeling guilty."  "Who is the devil you know?"

Martha Stout is bang on --- my mother actually said to me, "I never feel guilty about anything, I know that I am always right"  "It's others who need to change, not me, why should I"

So the chilling reality over a year ago now hit my heart like a dagger.

*** Martha Stout in "The Sociopath Next Door" mentions on page 160 of her book .....

9.  Question your tendency to pity too easily .......

...Respect should be reserved for the kind and morally courageous.  Pity is another socially valuable response, and it should be reserved for innocent people who are in genuine pain or have fallen on misfortune.  If, instead, you find yourself often pitying someone who consistently hurt you or other people, and who actively campaigns for your sympathy, the chances are you are dealing with a sociopath.

Related to this - I recommend that you severely challenge your need to be polite in absolutely all situations.  For normal adults in our culture, being what we think of as "civilized" is like a reflex, and often we find ourselves being automatically decorous even when someone has enraged us, repeatedly lied to us, or figuratively stabbed us in the back.

Sociopaths take huge advantage of this automatic courtesy in exploitive situations.

Do not be afraid to be unsmiling and calmly to the point.


10.  Do not try to redeem the unredeemable.

... If you are dealing with a person who has no conscience, know how to swallow hard and cut off your losses.

The sociopath's behavior is not your fault, not in any way whatsoever.  It is also not your mission.

Your mission is your own life.




I feel, as many professionals do, the same applies with Narcissistic people, and my breakthrough was realization and acceptance that my Narcissistic Mother's choice of behavior was not, in any way whatsoever, my fault.


Therefore, my feeling is,

At this point I am still in the stage of feeling sorry for him and this causes me great guilt.

We have nothing to feel 'guilty' for.

We have everything to be thankful for --- in our feeling guilty, we have reassurance and knowledge that we possess a conscience!

That is something to feel worthy about!

Leah x

[seastorm]

Dear Steve,

Having read your post I am amazed that you have come to understand the impact of a narcissistic parent so quickly.  It is devastating to a child and continues to undermine one as an adult.  The point about how much is conscious and deliberate and how much is unconscious is so important. I struggle with this often. Whether or not it is consciouis is not something I have really figures out. Its like asking "did he mean to break my jaw when he hit me?"  You still end up with a broken jaw.
In Alice Miller's book I think she makes the point that once you realize that you were abused you need to focus on the IMPACT of the abuse, rather than try to make sense of a DISORDERED personality. There are so many things that don't add up in a narcissistic parent that one could spend way too much time trying to figure THEM out.

As I work with my therapist on the impact of my mother's narcissitic parenting, I realize that my work is to grieve the loss of the dream of having a healthy parent and to connect with the inner child that was so wounded. This involves reparenting MYSELF with the help of the therapist.

Intellectually I get what Narcissism is. I have studied it with zeal. The hard part is to do the grieving which is not sequential or orderly. It is also painful. After the realization usually comes the information of being set up to get involved and re injured by other narcissists. Maybe that didn't happen to you. I hope so.
What I am trying to say is that it is a process that unfolds in its own time as you do the work of grieving. As for forgiveness......... don't rush it. I am not big on forgiveness, especially if it is premature. I guess it depends on the extent of the injury. The fact that you want to forgive is laudable, but first do the work of discovering the implications of his abuse of you.

I hope that helps.

Love,
Sea storm

[Leah]

Grieving is a real process as Seastorm as mentioned.

It was a surprise to me, when I realized that in effect, at a particular point in time along my journey, I was working through a bereavement process and did actually spend time with a Bereavement Counselor.

Grieving the loss of hopes and dreams, of a FOO and a husband, with whom I had hoped to spend the rest of my life with.

Finding out the reality and truth of my mother's behavior (personality disorder) provided a reason and was liberating, yet at the same time saddening too.

Forgiveness can't be rushed, it needs to come from a healed heart, I feel.

As I forgave too quickly, a Head decision not a Heart decision, that was my mistake.

Healing YOU comes first as a priority.  YOUR mission is now about YOUR life.

Leah xx

[Hopalong]

Hi Steve, welcome back. So glad you're doing therapy, thrilled for you.

I know how desperately childrens of Ns want to understand WHY. I don't think we can ever fully compute it. It does help to understand as much as we can about the Nparent's own childhood. Once I learned more about my mother's, it became much easier to release myself from the endless hostage feelings I'd had. That I was hostage to her disordered personality and needs.

About your father attacking you emotionally, and not your sisters, my guess would be that because of his own childhood, and some deep damage from it, he has the black vortex core of self-loathing that's at the center of every narcissist's nature. And, because you are his male child, he will unconsciously identify with you. As he hates himself, he would choose to attack his male child...the boy self.

He hates his own self, which is not female. So, the child he treats hatefully, is the boy...as he was when he learned self-hatred.

Make any sense?

Hops

[dandylife]

You might want to talk to your therapist about using a technique called "chair therapy". This is where you have an empty chair in the room with you and you (by imagination) have the abuser sit in the chair and you talk with them. Maybe you could talk to your dad's young child? Then move on to the adult? I wouldn't recommend this without the guidance of a trained counselor, though. It can be very effective if you're ready to deal with strong emotions.

Dandylife

[reallyME]

Dandylife, I'd like to stand next to you in ADVOCATING the CHAIR THERAPY.  I not only have done it personally myself ON myself, but I have used it with a couple of people I've ministered to/counseled.  It really helps a LOT!

There is also another therapy called REGRESSIONAL THERAPY or PSYCHODRAMA THERAPY.

I would like to remind Steve and others, too, that, once N is done with you, he/she simply finds the next supply source and leaves you alone to go through the cycle with the next person...the gift-giving, flattering, pseudo-love stage, into the martyrdom, and punishing, and finally devaluing/ shunning/ desertion stage.

To an N, their main words of operation are, "SO WHAT?  NEXT!"

[Leah]

Yes Laura,

They do just that, simply move on to their next N supply

and

I can see now how they actually 'pick up' or 'sense' a change and pre-emptively select their new source of supply

Leah

[debkor]

Laura,

SO WHAT, NEXT.  So very true.

Love Deb

[steve]

Thank you all for your suggestions so far. i see my therapist tomorrow so I think I may get some more insight then. The only problem is that I tend to be very emotionally drained after each session.

Anyways, I am coming to the conclusion that I need to go back and relive my tragic childhood. To clearly understand what was done to me as a defenseless child, and then once "infected", continued on through my life. I need to get beyond this before I can mourn my loss and then start to re=parent myself in a healthy positive way.

As an interesting note, I saw my father today and no one else was around. This may sound absurd, but I saw in his eyes a terrifying hatred. It was as if he was saying to me that I know you are getting therapy but don't expect anything to change. I will still own you and you can not get rid of me. How dare you even think that. I will crush you and I will use all of my weapons. I also get a sense that he believes that I am the one that is sick. He has no clue that he has damaged me in this way. He probably believes that I am wasting my time and that eventually I will come to understand that he is the all-knowing and all-powerful one with all the answers. It is quite pathetic.

I hate him for what he has done for me. I commented to my aunt today that if he died today I would feel nothing. This is such a cold statement if you think about it. But it is the truth. In fact, I believe that if he died today I would probably be free.

But I am more rational than that. I know that as long as I let him control my mind that I will never be free. I need to exorcise him from my brain and this will be my goal. Think about it, once you take away their power, what do they have left? Absolutely nothing!!! And what do you gain? Finally, some self respect, self-esteem, and a true love for yourself. This is my goal. Wish me luck!!!

Steve

[debkor]

Good Wishes Steve!!

Love
Deb

[isittoolate]

Hi Steve,
I am the Granny of the Group, at almost 68.

It was only just over 4 years ago that I understood anything about Personality Disorders.

If I knew then........................etc.

My parents are now Dead, my father in 1986. There was no confrontation to have him speak about what I (now) know about N-ism. The hurt doesn't go away with the death of the N. For me, I needed to confront him, but I didn't.

My mother passed away in 1994 and for the first time in my life and hers, she said, "I love you" and I still didn't believe it!!!!! She never protected me from the harsh beatings from my father! I was a helpless little child and I (as the others) was accustomed to Dad's razor strap. To do what she didn't do is abuse, as well.

At that time my daughter was into a 10 year marriage to an N. She left him after her Grandmother died, but she and I were estranged--still are. Her N was part of the problem from when she met him in 1984 and onwards to banning me from their lives in 1991.

So my ex son-in-law, in his 50s has my eldest grandson, 20, and voilą --another Narcissist.

My daughter, now 42, has the other 2 grandchildren, 17 and 14 and they are in therapy about their father.

I was alone and hurting, in Ontario, and suddenly a charming  man came into my life. Oh My!  And we were going to move to British Columbia, set up a computer business and make loads of money. He would build them and I would instruct and build websites and do accounting etc.

His mask fell off after my name was on all the papers--- a Psychopath. I was nearly destroyed inside, but not financially--I held on there-- so I left and am putting myself together.

My family is all in ON, 2000 miles away, and I have now discovered that one sister is an N.

I have been surrounded and affected by Ns and they are evil: Divide and Conquer. Lie, Cheat, Steal, anything because they feel entitled to it and destroy others on their quest for what they want!

The P/N here is now in terrible financial straits, to my knowledge and I have moved on, in that respect.

Now I have to put ME back together.

They KNOW what they are doing! Believe me. THEY KNOW!

Carry on
Izzy

[gratitude28]

Wow Steve,
You have expressed my own thoughts here regarding my mother. I go from pity to anger. I see her as a sick child, but then I see the twisted person who likes hurting me and hates me...
Food for thought.
((Steve)))))))
Beth

[Hopalong]

Dear Steve,
Do you think No Contact with your father is a healthy goal?

Hops