Author Topic: Not doing too well  (Read 4132 times)

seastorm

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Not doing too well
« on: March 12, 2007, 04:34:03 AM »
I haven't had much to say lately. I feel sort of inadequate because I see people moving forward and I am still grieving my screwed up relationship. I seem to go back and forth between thinking he was a narcissist and that he lied to me and stole from me to thinking that I must have made a mistake and catastrophized a lot of what happened.

I phoned him ( I can hear the gasps) and was feeling sorry for him. He told me that he was not involved romantically with new woman but he was living in her daughters house. Daughter has an appartment in mansion like house. He lives there for free and the family has sort of adopted him. Every weekend he goes skiing with new woman.
For some reason this bugs me as it seems upper class and terribly athletic. Basically, after I talked to him i was back to thinking it was all my fault and I am mentally ill and see things through a distorted lens of paranoia.

In addition exN still has to get his stuff out of the yard before he can get the payout from the house. I agonize over this. Do I want to see him?  No I don't. And there is a finality about this. I don't want to see him. It would be painful He is not a complete monster but he has violated the trust I had in him. So I have to be strong and arrange to not be here.  Also, he wants his papers for income tax. I must not let him in the house. Part of me fantasizes about everything being ok again. I have been in so much pain about the breakup and everything that I wish I could just feel safe and secure again for an hour.
After listening to him I doubt my own perceptions. He is so convincing. He says that he called the police on me because it was the only way he could contain the situation.  I fhought that was language that I had never heard him use. Like he had been coached. Then I remembered how calm he was when he walked into the living room and called the police. I was just standing there calmly and he came out of the bedroom We were in separate ends of the house. I had walked away from him.
Did he think I would be calm as a cucumber when I found out about his internet affair.

I am trying to figure out why I feel so exhausted and depressed. I feel so discouraged and ruined. I still keep doing a few things and that keeps me functioning. But that is all I can do. I no longer cry all day. I can go to public places and not cry. I am so sad. I don't want to do housework. I have grown incredibly close to my wonderful cat who loves me so deeply and with such devotion that it amazes me. He comes to bed the second I do and cuddles up to me and stays that way until I get out of bed in the morning.

My ex called me malevolent during our phone call. He said that I emasculated him. I did get frustrated because he didn't want sex at all. I had never had that problem with any other man. It got so that he would tempt me and tease me and then leave the room. I thought only mean women did that. i would ask him to go to a doctor and find out what was wrong, or to get viagra.  But he had no interest in doing that. H just seemed to think it was ok.

There is no going back. I don't want a sexually cold marriage, I don't want to do all the housework, cooking, yardwork, and make the living. I don't want to be with a man who has to have several lady friends. He said they were just friends but they were very flirty friends.  I don't want to put up with his romantic relationship with his daughter. I don't want to put up with him taking vacations by himself.

There is still that wounded part of me that wants him no matter what. Doesn't matter if I lose an arm or a leg or an eye. I am fighting that part of me but I don't find it easy.
I have promised myself I won't contact him. Even now he says that he still loves me and thinks of me constantly. it just makes me sick.

Sea storm

quietkate12001

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 06:24:47 AM »
I am so sorry for your pain.

Thought I was the only one whose husband took a vacation by himself.

One year when our two sons were little he flew from Michigan to Texas to visit his family without us.

At the time he said that it was because we didn't have the money for all of us to go, and he had worked hard all year, and this was his vacation, etc., etc., etc.

Now I know that being an n we might have distracted some attention away from him.  Which might have been fatal.

 :D

Take a deep breath.  Today's a new day.  We are all going to make it.  It's just going to take time.

Lupita

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 06:38:00 AM »
My x N left my son six months old and me during six months, in a town where I did not know poeple, and did not have a job. He did not call and when he finally came back he wanted me to be happy. The only thing I am sorry is that I wasted six years of my son inoscent life to leave him.
Well, it is 6:30 AM and I have to go to work.
You do not need any man in your life. They give you too many problems and can give STDs, and destroy your selfesteem.
Just say no. Or do something that impairs you from going back to him. Like Cortez did so his men do not come back to Spain. He burned his ships. Do something that makes it impossible to contact him. You will never regret. They dont change. Believe me.
I am so sorry for your pain.

Overcomer

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 06:41:05 AM »
Oh Sea  He is an idiot.  Do not get yourself get sucked into his web of deceit.  You will be ok.  Time is the only thing that will take away the sting.  I promise you with all my heart this too shall pass!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

axa

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 09:22:39 AM »
Seastorm,

I so understand your feelings.  When I get fuzzy brain syndrome I reread Sam V and the truth of his Nism is confirmed to me.  I have had moments of thinking maybe I expected too much, if only I had done what he wanted etc.  well the truth is Sea that you and I and everyone on this board put up with unreal amounts of crap before we saw the light.  I think we were in denial for so long that we can easily slip back into it.  Remember, the good bits were an ACT.

I understand your phoning him.  I really think they are addictive.  I think your instincts about being coached are probably right. 

You are exhausted and depressed because you have had a most horrific experience.  your world has been turned up side down.  I know we talked here before about death and in my opinion the loss of someone you love is somehow easier to bear than the abuse.  I am not trivialising bereavement but there is no abuse in it.  I am not surprised that you are in such a state.  And you are getting better, you can now go out and not cry.  Sea that is a big step.

I got the bit about emasculating him also.  Well, I did have the nerve to ask that our sex life be mutually satisfying.  How dare I say such a thing.  Read SAm V about Ns and sex.  They use it as a lever to hook you in and loose interest as soon as they have you or dare you suggest anything. 

He will say anything he can to keep you as supply.  The words I love you are so easy to say.........what about the actions, dont seem very loving to me.  He is full of crap.

About the part of you that still wants him.  I also understand that.  I believe that has nothing to do with him.  It is part of a fantasy you are hooked into, been there too.  Whenever I loose my way around that one I take a pen and paper and make a list of the reality and the fantasy.  Does not take me long to wake up from that nightmare.

Take care

axa

Hopalong

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 09:25:59 AM »
(((((((((((Sea)))))))))))))))

You deserve the whole love of a whole man,
and you're still working on healing yourself whole
so you'll be ready for it.

How can you help yourself maintain No Contact?

A little book called Don't Call that Man! helped me through that period once.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

axa

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 09:35:06 AM »
Hops,

Sounds like good advice.  No contact really makes a difference.  I know that the message I got from XN last week has thrown me off balance.  I am so angry about that and decided today that I need to let it go..... easier said than done.  I am angry at his arrogance to think he can make contact with me because he needs some supply.  The one thing I am clear about is that if he loved me, as he was so exhausted from telling me he would not have lied, cheated, abused, destabilized me............so there.  I can see it for what it is thankfully.

axa

dandylife

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 10:35:30 AM »
Seastorm, I'm very sorry to hear what you are going through. My opinion is that if you have a true intimate relationship with a man (an equal, honest, loving, caring, sharing relationship), then 1 person is not going to go outside of the relationship for intimacy, online or not. And since he did that, you have the evidence you need. He was using you for his own purposes in your relationship with him, whether it was conscious or subconscious for him. It wasn't a truly loving relationship. An adrenaline rush of desire and the thrill of a hidden sexual rush was more important to him than your feelings. Read that sentence again. That's what he thinks of you. So don't let your loneliness let him back in. Lock that last open door. Time will bring lots of chances for true intimacy.
Wishing you peace and love,
Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

WRITE

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 02:15:21 PM »
Hi Seastorm

don't feel inadequate in any way- this is the stages you go through to detach from a horrible abusive situation.

It's amazing how there's always a woman willing to step in and enable an abuser though when you dump them; you'd think they'd learn from the way he treats you but nope....just live in my mansion honey, any crumb if you must be better than nothing....no wonder there's no vested interest in abusive guys to change is it!

i was back to thinking it was all my fault and I am mentally ill and see things through a distorted lens of paranoia.

I am mentally ill ( bipolar ) and I assure you I am the only person in my immediate surroundings for a long time who was reacting accurately to ex and his behaviours.

If you feel it then it probably is; if you feel it over and over and over time- then it definitely is. Trust yourself Seastorm.

Part of me fantasizes about everything being ok again. I have been in so much pain about the breakup and everything that I wish I could just feel safe and secure again for an hour.

you weren't safe with him though were you, the security was part of the fantasy. And we all want that- to be loved and taken care of, there's nothing wrong in that except first we have to love and take care of ourself.

I am trying to figure out why I feel so exhausted and depressed.

it's a grieving process. You will come out the other side and enjoy things and feel 'normal' again, you will.

My ex called me malevolent during our phone call. He said that I emasculated him.

if he's N he will hate anyone who doesn't conform to his distorted self-image. That's his problem.

My ex says this too. I have undermined him constantly.

Yes, right, so that gave him the right to _________________ ( insert lie/ cheat/ hit/ rage/ minimise/ etc )

Have you read Lundy Bancroft's Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men?
One of the great things about that book is you get a good look at the distorted values and attitudes of an abuser and a perspective on how it's not you got things so wrong- it's him and sometimes even society...

There is still that wounded part of me that wants him no matter what.

we always wonder 'what if...' and want to rework our problems or mistakes. But only he can change himself and moving in with someone who will support him doesn't seem like much personal growth to me.

Be strong, Seastorm.

These men take so much from everyone around them but you don't have to let him take your long-term happiness.

And that starts with drawing a boundary round yourself right now to protect you from his insults and build your self-confidence again.

Unfortunately we buy into fantasy so much with romantic relationships. But that's all it is, I am reminded of Shakespeare which is where we should leave romantic fantasy, back with the 16 th century!

Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind.


Wendy Cope put it well in a poem too:

Defining the Problem

I can't forgive you. Even if I could,

You wouldn't pardon me for seeing through you

And yet I cannot cure myself of love

For what I thought you were before I knew you.


Even if you went back the fantasy is lost because you'll never see him blindly again.

Grieve yes, certainly, for that loss. And start today with what is real- your support network, any loveliness around you, friendships and some solid ground of knowledge of abusers and abusive relationships.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 02:17:37 PM by WRITE »

seastorm

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 05:25:49 PM »
I seem to get depressed whenever I try to move forward with the separation and mortgage. I think it is the additional stress. I think about becoming a good Buddhist nun and surrendering to the infinite but I am too practical.  I mean that the fears of being a bag lady pursue me. I worry about how i will pay the mortgage. I guess I just feel a lot of fear because of all the change.
I can really see why people hang in there with aweful marriages. Building a new life and a new identity are daunting. On the other hand, it is pretty obvious that I made him my whole life.
For  awhile I was feeling better and actually had some happy days. I pushed this thing through and damn the torpedoes by getting a lawyer and finalizing things. I did that to close the door. I just have to live up to that noble gesture.

I appreciate the encouragement so much. Hearing that I am not a complete loser for still having feelings for him. For grieving the end of the relationship. It has to end because somewhere I am so furious at what he has done. For who he really is. I did not know about narcissism for the 7 years we were together. There was a lot of imprinting done then.

When I listen to him now I am aware that he has no concern for me. It is all about him. He absolutely cannot take any responsibility for the money he took. It is bizarre to listen to him say "Show me the paper that says that" when I say that he put his paycheck in his own account rather than contrubute to the expenses of the house.  This is what he says instead of "No I did not do that". That is just one subtle way he weazles out of something. Well, I did find the paper.  And he is still indignant that I would accuse him of that. What is that? He rationalizes what he does so thoroughly that there is no victim.  And he says, " You are such a VICTIM!"
I guess I can hardly believe how crazy it is so I don't think anyone else could understand. And I built my life around this.

Write i don't mean it to be an insult to say one is mentally ill. I am mentally ill too. I have depression.  I don't even have the ups just the downs. The denigration of mental illness was implied by my exN. That was his constant and worst accusation full of inuendo and judgement and shaming. When I calm down I realize he has a poor concept of mental illness.

Axa : thank you for telling me about how you feel and how confusing and mixed up the feelings are and it is still ok to feel that way. I can get so lost in this.

Lupita: I think you are right. Be like Cortez and burn the ships. That is a magnificent metahor.

Hops : Yup, no contact. How can I do it? Talk about it here. Be honest and keep going. I have to say that things are better than they were five months ago.

Every day I go through all the stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.  Lately, I think I am approaching acceptance just a bit. It is done, It happened and there is no going back. That is a biggie to face.

I realize that denial is a powerful thing. I thought I was beyond it. What a laugh. I had my head in the sand big time. This embarrasses me and shames me. I also have to admit that I must have been pretty desperate to settle for all the bs. and still take him on.  I thought I had things together. I was happy on my own. Well, I guess that was a myth. Now I have to look at why I was so afraid to be alone.

Peeling back the layers.

Sea storm

debkor

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 08:06:50 PM »
I was reading something on the net and it had to do with low self esteem.  It was pretty interesting.

It says that some have deep rooted resistance to acquiring positive esteem. We sabotage our attempts.  We reject attentions of the ones who love us and would cherish us to favor the ones who criticize and misuse us.  How we plan to use daily affirmations to boost ourselves but always forget about it.  That when the positive thoughts come in and you think you are doing good the saboteur can creep up just when you though it was gone. I think he was talking about the negative feelings creeping in.  So that old saboteur is scrambling your ability to understand what you are saying and thinking.
It talked about change to our identity, even positive, can feel threatening.  Who will I become, how will I cope, how will I function, if I change?  It says that even a destructive self image is familiar, it's all we have known and it is what kept us alive until now. We developed all kinds of strategies and reference points around this identity of low self esteem. If we change would they apply anymore?  We have gotten use to hiding ourselves behind things.   We have become habituated to our own negativity, self-pity, frustration, resentment and blame.  We become attached to our fantasy of longing for love.  Someday my prince will come syndrome.
If we really want change this will mean we will experience the loss of all of this. It says for some people low self esteem serves a purpose.  It allowed us to hide and protect ourselves against criticism or attack. It keeps us invisible and isolated but it also kept us safe from standing up to those we fear, or the ones who's power seems to great to challenge. 

It may be a that low self esteem is a family culture where confidence and assertion are seen as taboo.  That being the one with low self esteem is the habitual role we played in our family or intimate relationship. To change you would be breaking the family mold and if you change you might risk losing the relationship with those people who have an investment in us staying the way we are.

It means that we may have to give up the unhealthy life style and habits we use to comfort ourselves with.  So changing our esteem means tackling all sorts of issues we have put off  and dealing with the consequences.

It is important to honor and respect our fears, fearing change does not make us weak, it makes us human.

We need to understand our investment and how low self esteem has served a purpose for us.  It's deep rooted and will need to be done slowly one step at a time healing our fears and replacing with more positive ways of dealing with life.

I also read that in childhood when emotional abandonment from a dysfunctional parent who was caught up with their own needs or just not emotional expressive that low self esteem plays and important part of survival for some the perception (we are bad) is developed  as a childhood defense against abandonment/powerlessness. Inside you experience the terror of the void, and a feeling that we do not exist.  So you felt powerless to make others hold and love you (as in parent/child). You find ways to cope with the conflict of the need of the parent and what is really happening to you.  It says you find ways to convince yourself that the abusive parent really meant well and idealize them in order to protect yourself  knowing that you are alone and the threat of total abandonment ,but preserve the ability to love.
It allows to stay in touch with the idea and experiences of love and goodness, even if it is misdirected.  That is how we create the habit of idealizing/romanticizing relationships with people who misuse you.

Low self esteem is a way in which we try to cope with the dilemma, it give us a feeling of control over events.  It eases the pain of abandonment which is powerlessness.  As kids we think that our parents don't love us the way we need them to because it must be something that we did for things to go wrong.  So somewhere we had the illusion that we had control over their love for us and we have an outlet for anger and frustration. So we take it out on ourselves and punish ourselves because it is easier and safer then punishing others.  If we were to express anger we may justifiably fear their retaliation.  In our imagination  we might fear that our anger would destroy them.  So somehow  it was easier to think somehow we were responsible for their actions then in reality we were powerless to influence what they did or make them love us.  In this way low self esteem becomes a form of defense.

As adults, we attempt to heal these old wounds we realize we were powerless over other peoples behavior and what they do.

In order to change we have to recognize we have resistance and we have an investment in continuing the way we are.
Resistance is an important survival stragety and we need to recognize it's value.  We need to be able to resist what threatens our survival, or integrity as individuals we need to be able to say no. The circumstances in which silent resistance was the only option may no longer apply. We need to understand how our resistance has been trying to protect us. We may find that our resistance has now become self destructive. But when we originally enlisted it's support, it seemed the best option.  Resistance is like a Royal Soldier we set up to guard our psyche many years ago forgetting who gave them their instructions, we now blame them for getting in our way.

It's pretty interesting and makes sense to me.
The book is Breaking the Spell by, Rachel Clyne.

I would of copied exactly what is written but I can't.  I would of typed forever word for word.

Love Deb.

debkor

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 09:03:18 PM »
My computer is going crazy.  I can't update the board.

Hopalong

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 11:16:48 PM »
Sea, Deb...

Happiness is a risk.

It's a risk to feel happy.

That's something that's really struck me this year.
The more I contemplate it, the more extended my times of happiness feel.

I don't know why.
I think maybe this little epiphany is a sort of reality gift.

When I think: 'Happiness is a risk, isn't it," and answer myself honestly, "Yes," then for some strange reason it becomes easier to step into the next moment and actually feel some.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

seastorm

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2007, 02:48:31 AM »
Holy Smokes,

That was incredible information for me Deb.  I think it is true and that I perpetuate a nourishment barrier around myself. I have been attracted to narcissists as friends and lovers. This year I have broken this spell. But the belief system is still there. There is something stopping me from going forward and it is some childhood beleif. But I don't know what that is. 

I know that my mother was very hard to please (read impossible) and I tried by excelling in school. My mom went to grade eight and had to leave to help the family out. She seemed to want me to excel and get some kind of power in the world but she was very envious as well and encouraged me in areas that I wasn't gifited in. She liked to have control of me in the name of being helpful but undermined whatever confidence I managed to manifest.

In working with my relationship with my mother and my sadistic older  brother I am unearthing things that are buried deep and carry a curse if they are brought to light.  I mean it is not a happy event when I discover the cruelty and ill will my mom directed at me. In some way I am defying the programming and breaking the spell. It is done as a leap of faith but it doesn't feel good yet. The faith is that there will be a sense of being fully alive.

I am capable of being happy, playful and joyful. This is not one of those times. Why DOES is take time to get over a relationship? Why doesn't a person just decide the guy or gal was jerk and presto they move on?

I agree that happiness is a risk.  It means doing things differently and doing what makes one feel good. Traditionally, wounded animals don't head out and take risks until they are healed. In this state of resting and integrating big changes there are glimpses of things I want to do and who I want to be.

I'm glad I spoke about this. It is good to get different ideas. This is such an amazing place. Thanks

axa

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Re: Not doing too well
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2007, 10:38:57 AM »
really interesting thread.  I think there is a pay off for everything...........even the negative stuff.  I think my pay off from N relationships have been that I have remained the victim.  Not consciously trust me.  The more I challenge and acknowledge my desire to be the victim the less desire I have for this role.  I know I sabotage myself, I find it hard to give up on someone even when all the evidence points to the fact that they are abusive and not going to change.  I think there is some link with a sense of power that I and only I can change them...... my love will be so wonderful that that will be the catalyst.  Sounds a bit Nish I am afraid.  This is stuff I am just learning and trying to deal honestly with.

Axa