Author Topic: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior  (Read 4394 times)

mudpuppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2007, 07:54:43 PM »
Quote
But here is what i don't get with a few members of my family whom I really beleive has N' traits and sociopath traits..

they don't believe in physciatry period............ or physcologists.......

Oh sure they do, they just pretend they don't. They probably believe in it more than psychiatrists and psychologists do.
The reason they believe in it is because they know there is something terribly wrong inside their heads. The reason they pretend they don't is because they think that by doing so they can make it harder for others to know just how unbalanced and disturbed they really are.

mud

moonlight52

  • Guest
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2007, 08:00:44 PM »
Hi

Hard to say and diagnose others I know what my shrink has told me It all comes down to love
I can not diagnose another only tell of my experience as an example.

I do know we can only heal ourselves not others and our real responsibility is to be true to self and grow ......

love

m
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 10:45:57 PM by moonlight »

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2007, 08:02:26 PM »
Mud has explained it perfectly.

When my exNh visited my home he recoiled in horror, literally, never before had I seen such an expression of fear on his face,
as he viewed my recently acquired books on NPD and co.

I will never forget that look on his face, as he stood staring at my books, then looked at me, afterward, I did feel genuine compassion, and sadness, for him, from a distance.

Sadly, to this day, he has not entered into any counselling or therapy, despite encouagement from both myself, and, our son.  

Leah xx

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

poetprose

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2007, 08:08:38 PM »
Oh sure they do, they just pretend they don't. They probably believe in it more than psychiatrists and psychologists do.
The reason they believe in it is because they know there is something terribly wrong inside their heads. The reason they pretend they don't is because they think that by doing so they can make it harder for others to know just how unbalanced and disturbed they really are.

mud

that makes sense too..... I just find the logic i hear from my suspect N, and sociopath thinking so full of holes..... and contradictory

gratitude28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2582
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2007, 08:21:35 PM »
poet,
I will bet that if reflect on their comments, you will see that for one person, they will excuse behavior, while with another they will say that the person is stupid or insane. And it will be entirely dependent upon their whims. That is how my parents are. And they think psychology is bunk too. Which is silly, because many of our relatives have needed help. And my parents also surely need help, although they will never, I am sure, stoop "low enough" to get it.
I am an alcoholic. I stopped drinking over three years ago. I live by the principles of AA, although I haven't been as active as I would like to be lately. Like you, I have made that choice for my life because the alternative is to kill myself and live in an insane manner. My mother was so gleeful about that. I heard her whispering to my aunt about how "she just had NOOOO idea...". Etc. Which is not true. I had so many problems while with them and she just said, "Oh well" and turned her back on me with every one.
I am also on Celexa, although for me it works well. I took Paxil for a while and it made funny tings happen in my brain... sort of painful glitches. I am glad to not be taking it as those scared me.
Poet, you are doing what is tright and being a mature and wonderful adult about it. We can only work with what we are given :)
Lots of love,
Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

gratitude28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2582
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2007, 08:30:53 PM »
Deb,
I would say my mother has NPD and OCD. She also needs to shop continuously and buys food constantly, allowing it to just rot in the fridge. I think, because they have no spiritula outlet, or any other healthful way of expressing themselves, they "shop and collect" to fill the void. I think they get so bored with their "bubble existence" (they live in such a tiny and false world) that they tend to get a bit stir crazy.

((((((((((poet)))))  (((towrite)))))))))))

I am sory to hear about the suicides in your families. I think that is why it is so imprtant that we get treated. I can't tell you how hopeless I felt at various times. We need to help ourselves and show our children it is OK to ask for help.

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13619
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2007, 10:37:55 PM »
I am awed by the strength, wisdom, courage and clarity I hear from all of you.

thank you for sharing it.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2007, 11:17:03 PM »



Great discussion.  Thanks everyone.

We need to help ourselves and show our children it is OK to ask for help.

This is soooooooo true, Beth.  We need to learn how to express our neediness to our 'safe' people so that their warmth and constancy can minister to us.

tt

gratitude28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2582
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2007, 11:20:49 PM »
((((tt))))))))

Thanks for putting my thoughts into even nicer words and furthering the idea.

((((((hops)))))))
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

poetprose

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 09:34:35 AM »
poet,
I will bet that if reflect on their comments, you will see that for one person, they will excuse behavior, while with another they will say that the person is stupid or insane. And it will be entirely dependent upon their whims. That is how my parents are. And they think psychology is bunk too. Which is silly, because many of our relatives have needed help. And my parents also surely need help, although they will never, I am sure, stoop "low enough" to get it.
 I have made that choice for my life because the alternative is to kill myself and live in an insane manner. My mother was so gleeful about that. I heard her whispering to my aunt about how "she just had NOOOO idea...". Etc. Which is not true. I had so many problems while with them and she just said, "Oh well" and turned her back on me with every one.
I am also on Celexa, although for me it works well. I took Paxil for a while and it made funny tings happen in my brain... sort of painful glitches. I am glad to not be taking it as those scared me.
Poet, you are doing what is tright and being a mature and wonderful adult about it. We can only work with what we are given :)
Lots of love,
Beth


Beth congratulatons with your sobriety!!!!!  Good for you...... I use to go to Alonon and   ACOA, I really found the adult children of alcohilic meetings quite helpful for me a rough time in my life

gratitude28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2582
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2007, 10:28:03 PM »
Thanks poet!!! Life is much nicer this way and the principles of the program are good for anyone whether they have issues or not. It is always good to try to be a kind person, I think! :)
((((((((((((((poet))))))

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

WRITE

  • Guest
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2007, 10:56:23 PM »
The manic phase of Bipolar I Disorder is often misdiagnosed as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

read here by Sam Vaknin

 http://samvak.tripod.com/journal71.html


hi Poetprose, I wouldn't take 'Pathological Narcissism' as a gospel on mental illness or personality disorder, it's a collection of interesting ideas that's all.

Neither condition should be 'diagnosed' as a result of one episode, it's a pattern over time. And as someone else points out- every person is in any case individual in their manifestation of either condition.

Labels aren't always helpful I don't think, and it's stereotypes which mean people assume all bipolars must be grandiose and violent for example.

I have been thinking and writing more and more about this, and especially violence. Very little violence is due to short-term chemical imbalance outbursts-it's much more about faulty thinking and attitude.

Violence happens in a pattern too- and the precursor is what the violent person believes about how they are entitled to behave.

As a bipolar if I were ever violent ( which I never have been ) I would see it as unreasonable and my responsibility to fix and prevent it recurring; in some ways the stereotypes give people a 'let-off' by assuming that person's self-control is impaired or norms of expectations on behaviour should not be applied to them. That's simply not true.

Anyone who is so out of control that violence is a norm for them needs to be taking that behaviour to a psychiatrist or psychologist and if it truly cannot be controlled then they are the small minority of people who are unsafe to be out of hospital.

Unfortunately so many social norms exist around violence that many kinds of violence are tolerated, encouraged and excused.

If abuse is the systematic use of a behaviour to manipulate or control someone else then any person who is violent more than once and is aware they have been violent- they need to take responsibility for that and recognise their element of choice and abusiveness in what they are doing.

Being drunk/ drugged/ mentally ill or impaired is no longer a 'get out clause' for bad behaviour, in the same way that other disabilities or inequalities aren't.

 :oops:Here endeth the lesson...sorry, obviously I have been feeling more strongly about this than I realise!

When that guy said to me a few weeks ago 'I wouldn't want someone ( ie me ) calling drunk late at night and making demands' it's made me feel like I should be more proactive about bipolar and what it really means, it's not adequately represented by the handful of out-of-control people who seem to have created the public image.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 11:02:49 PM by WRITE »

mudpuppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2007, 11:57:50 AM »
Quote
I just find the logic i hear from my suspect N, and sociopath thinking so full of holes..... and contradictory

How can it be otherwise.
They are trying to reconcile the real world and their facade, which are irreconcilable.
They have the task of not only hiding their disorder at all costs and pretending they're normal, they are compelled to coerce normal sensible people into pretending the same thing.

No doubt it's pretty tough to sound logical when they're perpetually pushing the rock of convincing the entire world that lies are truth and evil is good, up a hill, only to have it roll back down to the bottom every time the world gets a peak at their true self.

mud

poetprose

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Mental illness/ verses criminal behavior
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2007, 08:01:15 AM »
Quote
I just find the logic i hear from my suspect N, and sociopath thinking so full of holes..... and contradictory

How can it be otherwise.
They are trying to reconcile the real world and their facade, which are irreconcilable.
They have the task of not only hiding their disorder at all costs and pretending they're normal, they are compelled to coerce normal sensible people into pretending the same thing.

No doubt it's pretty tough to sound logical when they're perpetually pushing the rock of convincing the entire world that lies are truth and evil is good, up a hill, only to have it roll back down to the bottom every time the world gets a peak at their true self.

mud

Actually they don't even need to sound logical, just "convincing" and that to me is the M.O of a con...." lie and deny" the pharisee creed