constructive loneliness

[Hopalong]

Hi all,
TT invited me to share more about my awkward feelings around money..

It's old stuff, resentments about class, equating money with cruelty (not that this is always fair, but it was my childhood in a private school as the scholarship kid..) and finding old insecurities come up that might interfere.

In specific, I attended the retreat this w/e on a partial scholarship, and after a lovely talk with one friend I've considered very close, I mentioned it, and then we drifted apart. That evening I was seized with insecurity and decided she must have thought I mentioned that because I was hinting that I needed her help with my new side business, so I wrote her that and said never occurred to me to ask, and she wrote back a kind of stiff email that she hadn't been thinking that at all.

So I felt humiliated and I felt shame, and it's old stuff, and it does get set off by money at times. So many of my female peers are at comfortable stages of their lives economically and I'm not, but I am trying to change that with my business dream. I am angry with myself that my confidence dipped after I talked to her about it, and she is quite wealthy and suddenly that intruded into my easy security with her. Then I found myself feeling left out, and feeling needy.

So that made me clutchy I think and that's why I starting projecting what I thought she was thinking, which was of course wrong, and now I'm fearful of having lost a friend.

I am trying to deal honestly with the fact that I'm lonely and do constructive things about it. I think I will be able to. But that's what's coming up right now, and for some reason, money issues make me feel more isolated than I have to be.

I am often sensitive to feeling I am not included in many social things, because so many folks are couples. And this friend, in particular, doesn't seem to have much time for me. And I think that hit me this weekend.

Sigh, I'm not being very grownup right now.
Hops

[Leah]

(((((( Hops ))))))


~ ditto ~


Leah xx

[axa]

Hi Hops,

Sorry to hear that you are having some difficulties at the moment.  I have been thinking about lonliness a lot lately.  There are times when I get twinges of it, lucky its only twinges, but when I do I think of the past few years with XN and the incredible cut off lonely feelings I felt when I was with him.  I have developed a strategy, firstly when I do feel lonely I realise it WILL pass as does everything else.  Secondly I realise(now that I am in adult mode) that it is up to me to do something about it.  Sometimes I choose to stay with it which I find difficult but I also acknowledge the lonliness is in me it has not got to do with the external world.  When I have this feeling I always seem to revert to the four year old who feels abandoned in the world.  My learning is that the only one who can resuce the four yr old is the adult me, everything else is a distraction. 

I look at a lot of the couples I know and I rarely see any intimacy.  I think it was you suggested I read the book Fear of Intimacy.  This I have found so useful.  I spend a lot of time alone and I am beginning to see that I like this.  My tolerance for psedo intimacy has all but disappeared.  I think many of us here have been thrown into a place where we have to face our lonliness and aloneness, it is painful but I am left with the feeling I would not have it any other way.  This is the only way for me.

With regard to your friend.  My guess is that this is just a blip in the landscape and an opportunity to create real intimacy.

Thinking of you and hope you are feeling less alone today.

axa

[Sela]

Hiya Hops:

I'm fearful of having lost a friend

You humbled yourself by being vunerable and sharing your thoughts/fears with someone you consider a friend and she responded stiffly.  Any friend who drops you for such a thing is no friend at all and never was.

Shamed?  Humiliated?  For saying what was bothering you?  Wouldn't a friend try to reassure you and encourage you by at least noting your honesty and desire to speak openly?

Think about what you might have said if the tables were turned and it were you with money and she the one who said what you did.  Do you think you would have given a similar stiff reply?  Is it really the money that determines the response?

Re loneliness:  Are there any single groups in your area Hops?   I was a member of a couple of single parent groups (years ago) and met some wonderful people, had a blast too!  Maybe something like that would be a way to help stem some of your lonliness a little?  You might meet others in similar financial circumstances there too?   Mabye there will even be others who are trying to do constructive things to improve their lives and find ways out of their social isolation?

Sela

[seastorm]

Hi Hops, kind gentle soul warrior and support to the broken hearted champion of the disenfranchized:

If you are feeling lonely there really is something wrong with the world.

You dd nothing wrong with the wealthy lady. I think you were a friendly puppy who barked up the wrong tree. This interchange says a lot more about her, than about you. Her stiff and starchy rebuff was so typical of a parent who doesn't see and doesn't hear. Unfortuneately, these characters are out there and one can get a cool wind of indifference just when you don't need it. It does make one feel small.

Are you starting a business? That is so brave of you and I am happy to hear it.

Older single women are marginalized. There is no doubt about it. Feeling this is quite differenct from logically understanding it. You have so much heart and are such a beautiful and wise speaker. You have a voice and it resounds.
I am really baffled that someone would refuff you. Pleeeeeeeze don't take it personally. I guess she is some kind of case of arrested development.

Lots and lots of love to you, I think you are wonderful.
You have a place in the old trouts club anytime.

Sea storm

[teartracks]

Hops,

Have to run off and take my mom to the eye doctor.  In the meantime, I'm sending sincere hugs((((((((((((((Hops+teartracks))))))))))))))))) to you, a very special friend.

tt

[Gaining Strength]

Hops - you bring up an issue that is very significant to me.  Having grown up in a wealthy family and having lived that life until my early thirties.  I learned the hard way that people with money do not want to know that you don't have money.  They may be friends with you on a level but when it comes to doing things that cost money suddenly you are persona non grata.  Of course this is not universal but then again,  pretty close.

I wish you great luck with your business venture.  That is definitely the way out.  I am on the verge of doing the same thing.  I am tired of being left out but I am also clearly changing my attitude about myself - I am learning to "be myself" for the first time - not worrying about what others think about my interactions and it is actually working.  It is sort of miraculous to me. - GS

[Hopalong]

Leah, I'm sorry you're in the same boat, though I wasn't sure whether it was loneliness or not feeling very grown up. Either way, thanks for the hugs and here's one back. ((((Leah))))

Axa,
Thank you. "The only adult who can rescue the 4 y/o me is the adult me." And doing something about it. You are so right. Thanks for your starch and maturity. I need to re-read Escape from Intimacy myself. I think I've chosen several friends who in fact have trouble being close, so it makes sense that I would feel bereft of intimacy if I only focus on them. I was reminding myself today that there are surely other women in my church who would welcome a friend who does want to spend time. So I need to reach out and be that friend, not chase the less available.

Sela,
You helped me see that her response was part of the situation, not just my mistaken projection. It wasn't loving and reassurance, more like "you're incorrect"...ow. She and I have had heartfelt talks at times, and I had thought we were quite close. But I think she prefers things always light, so I can stop expecting something deeper. And sure, I could check out some other groups and organizations. No reason to put ALL my eggs in the church basket.

Sea Storm,
Thank you for seeing it, seeing something on both sides. She in fact is the friend who also has a very very N mother, and that's what we bonded over. But a single-issue friendship could falter. She didn't mean to be hurtful, I'm sure. (I like being a friendly puppy, and there are plenty of trees!)

Big hugs back, (((((((((TT))))))))) Feeling much better. Hope you're doing better too.

GS, it's true, the adage about people with money not wanting to know about the realities of those who don't. I swear, if I ever accumulate any, I wouldn't want to be that way. I'm thrilled to hear you're feeling so much more self-respect. Bravo. And for your business, too. Mine's just a dream for a side income, for now, but who knows? It is a catchy idea and could grow. Slowwwwly.

Thanks, all. I am always so comforted to be here.

love,
Hops

[Leah]

thanks Hops,

It's the loneliness and all.

What GS said is so true, when you are in a position in society, then it is removed, due to divorce.

Where do you fit in??

Friends have husbands.

50 years of age, gave my whole life for others, FOO, husband and son, now alone.

Not feeling sorry for myself.

But have had an awful day today.  Slapped in the face by my next door neighbour, who phoned me from her workplace, to give me verbals demands and abuse.  I was trembling and in shock afterwards.

I do hope heaven is better than life on earth   

Hope I get there 

Night all.

Leah xx

[Gaining Strength]

Leah - are you talking about a literal slap in the face as in assault or are you talking about a figurative slap as in abuse?  What in the world happened?  No wonder you are upset!  How horrible to have such a contretemps with someone you must live next to.  My heart goes out to you. - GS

[gratitude28]

Hi Hops,
You have had so many good responses here. I tend to agree with Sela. It sounds like she is not a very dear friend if she can turn cold like that over something so small (or frankly turn cold like that period). I really can't imagine doing that to someone, can you?
Lately I have not felt as lonely. Part of it is that I have been taking Henry out (as you suggested) and walking to the neighbors. He got to have a playdate and I got to chat, in addition to meeting a new person with a cute pug on the way. I'm not very good myself at dealing with lonliness, so I don't know what to suggest besides getting out and about.
(((((((((((hops)))))))))))
Love, Beth

[Hopalong]

I think I'll be getting a wee dog I can actually walk, at some point.
And walk that little can't-pull-too-hard pooch I will!

Thanks for the reminder, Beth.
Just thinking of you and your Henry makes me smile.

With a face like THAT (his) , how could he not be a friend-magnet?

Hops

[teartracks]

Hops,


not worrying about what others think about my interactions and it is actually working.  It is sort of miraculous to me.  

I think what GS says is key to walking our authentic path among the masses.  

I rarely get lonely so I'll beg off giving advice about that.

I hope your side business goes swimmingly.  

tt

[teartracks]

((((((((((((((((((Leah))))))))))))))))))

tt

[Stormchild]

Hops - they're not friends if you cannot be who you truly are in their presence.

There is no shame in having less money than someone else, but great shame in having no compassion for those less fortunate than oneself.

What shame there is, here, belongs to your 'friend'; what poverty there was, was also hers; you have nothing at all to be ashamed of, but she has revealed a terrible miserliness of the soul.

You can even feel compassion for her - you are rich indeed.